Penn State horror story

[LittleHurt05]

1. Forced into retirement (1998)

2. Banned from bringing children on Campus (2002)

3. Disassociated from Charity (2008)

 

 

Three strikes right?

 

This is still the part that blows my mind. Stop playing with your random kids on our campus, do it elsewhere! WTF?

[StrangeSox]

I disagree. I think Paterno is probably legitimately saddened by all this.

 

He should have been legitimately saddened by it 9 years ago and done something. Right now, the best thing he can do to remove attention from himself is to resign.

[Milkman delivers]

If Paterno cut a life-long friend out of his life, that's a pretty clear indication that he didn't think the allegations were baseless.

 

You are killing it in this thread, by the way.

[RockRaines]

I disagree. I think Paterno is probably legitimately saddened by all this, and not just looking to cover his own ass.

I dont think anyone would be happy when they learned that the "small" issues you swept under the rug for years actually turned out to be seriously heinous crimes against children.

[StrangeSox]

And I said my piece, and then brought up other issues I thought were pertinent as well.

 

Is that a moral failing of mine as well, to introduce other issues?

 

Come on, of course not. And failing in this particular instance doesn't make Paterno an evil or bad person overall. He's human. We all have failures.

 

But that doesn't excuse those failures.

[RockRaines]

This is still the part that blows my mind. Stop playing with your random kids on our campus, do it elsewhere! WTF?

Is there really a more obvious piece of evidence that the administration knew what was going on?

[iamshack]

A scenario where someone is seeing doing something really wrong, but people in a position of power cover it up to protect their own reputations? That's not really a novel situation.

 

 

 

The problem is that there is always more evidence, more things we can wait to find out before 'rushing to judgement.' At this point, there appears to be sufficient evidence to understand what happened in this case. That it is difficult or impossible to come up with a plausible scenario that makes Paterno not look like an ass illustrates this.

No, the scenario that a major university employed and enabled a child molester on their campus.

 

I guess my point is, you have every right to your opinion. I just don't understand why it bothers you that I withhold mine for the most part regarding Paterno until I read/hear more?

[RockRaines]

Dan Bernstein, channeling this thread

 

 

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2011/11/09/ber...nd-jury-report/

[iamshack]

He should have been legitimately saddened by it 9 years ago and done something. Right now, the best thing he can do to remove attention from himself is to resign.

I don't think he or anyone else has claimed it would not have been better for him to have done more.

 

The distinction is that not all of us feel the need to publicly condemn him for it.

[iamshack]

Come on, of course not. And failing in this particular instance doesn't make Paterno an evil or bad person overall. He's human. We all have failures.

 

But that doesn't excuse those failures.

I honestly think he would admit this was a failure on his part.

[iamshack]

Is there really a more obvious piece of evidence that the administration knew what was going on?

Well, this is why I am more outraged at the administration and the authorities than Joe Paterno.

 

I find their incompetence infinitely more worthy of discussion.

 

 

[Milkman delivers]

Is there really a more obvious piece of evidence that the administration knew what was going on?

 

I made a joke about how obvious it was earlier.

[iamshack]

Dan Bernstein, channeling this thread

 

 

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2011/11/09/ber...nd-jury-report/

See...why is the picture of Joe Paterno and not Jerry Sandusky? WHY WHY WHY?

[Balta1701]

I honestly think he would admit this was a failure on his part.

Then my question in reply is...if you felt like you'd made that kind of failure, where people legitimately got hurt because you failed to act...and you were in a public position like this, and you had a lifetime of earnings to fall back on (thus you didn't need the job)...why wouldn't you fall on your sword and step aside immediately?

 

I mean, be honest...if Joe Paterno understands the situation, then he knows that Joe Paterno is going to be the story until Joe Paterno is out of the way. If he doesn't want his actions or lack thereof to be the story, if he doesn't want the kids on his team right now to have to deal with it, if he doesn't want the University Trustees to have to deal with deciding whether or not to fire him when they fire the university President tomorrow, then step aside. Right now.

[StrangeSox]

No, the scenario that a major university employed and enabled a child molester on their campus.

 

Again, not really that outlandish. People in positions of power, especially in the sports world, get lots and lots of passes for their actions.

 

But really this misses the point of coming up with a hypothetical. Would I have envisioned this exact scenario? No, of course not. But that's different from taking an existing scenario and exploring different avenues and results that can cast people in different lights.

 

I guess my point is, you have every right to your opinion. I just don't understand why it bothers you that I withhold mine for the most part regarding Paterno until I read/hear more?

 

Because that's not what you started out with. It bothers me (and others) to see some weak excuses being thrown out there for Paterno's inaction. Your position wasn't that "I don't know enough, not going to judge," but that people who expected more out of Paterno were being hypocritical, that he's just a football coach and that others deserve much, much more of the blame (uncontroversial to anyone here, btw).

 

edit: I do want to retract my claims of you trying to "deflect" with the media thing though. You were making a legitimate issue of this in your first post on the issue.

Edited November 9, 2011 by StrangeSox

[StrangeSox]

Then my question in reply is...if you felt like you'd made that kind of failure, where people legitimately got hurt because you failed to act...and you were in a public position like this, and you had a lifetime of earnings to fall back on (thus you didn't need the job)...why wouldn't you fall on your sword and step aside immediately?

 

I mean, be honest...if Joe Paterno understands the situation, then he knows that Joe Paterno is going to be the story until Joe Paterno is out of the way. If he doesn't want his actions or lack thereof to be the story, if he doesn't want the kids on his team right now to have to deal with it, if he doesn't want the University Trustees to have to deal with deciding whether or not to fire him when they fire the university President tomorrow, then step aside. Right now.

 

Bingo. Joe remains in the spotlight until he's no longer the Head Coach (in name only anyway) at PSU.

[StrangeSox]

Dan Bernstein, channeling this thread

 

 

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2011/11/09/ber...nd-jury-report/

 

It was similar to reading the Polanski testimony from his 70's rape trial. Very, very difficult.

[iamshack]

Then my question in reply is...if you felt like you'd made that kind of failure, where people legitimately got hurt because you failed to act...and you were in a public position like this, and you had a lifetime of earnings to fall back on (thus you didn't need the job)...why wouldn't you fall on your sword and step aside immediately?

 

I mean, be honest...if Joe Paterno understands the situation, then he knows that Joe Paterno is going to be the story until Joe Paterno is out of the way. If he doesn't want his actions or lack thereof to be the story, if he doesn't want the kids on his team right now to have to deal with it, if he doesn't want the University Trustees to have to deal with deciding whether or not to fire him when they fire the university President tomorrow, then step aside. Right now.

I don't care if he retires now or at the end of the year. I see the story for what it is. It's unfortunate that the media will not.

 

I'm certainly not saying Paterno shouldn't have quit yesterday, honestly.

 

I'm just saying I find the outrage and the need to condemn others, particularly Joe Paterno as the primary target here, when it should be Sandusky, the Administration, and law enforcement taking the brunt of the blame, to be a bit ridiculous.

[TaylorStSox]

See...why is the picture of Joe Paterno and not Jerry Sandusky? WHY WHY WHY?

Probably because he's the face of an organization that's not only covered up, bit enabled, a serial child rapist. That poor old man. Give me a break.

[Milkman delivers]

Well, this is why I am more outraged at the administration and the authorities than Joe Paterno.

 

I find their incompetence infinitely more worthy of discussion.

 

Their incompetence is definitely worthy of anger, but step back and think that they actually tried. Perhaps somebody incorrectly labeled evidence or some s*** and that's why it had to be dropped. Now if something like that is actually what happened, is that worse than high ranking members of PSU not following through on allegations? I don't think so.

 

And I'm only asking under that caveat; that the police f***ed up some small detail that rendered the case inadmissible.

[Balta1701]

Their incompetence is definitely worthy of anger, but step back and think that they actually tried. Perhaps somebody incorrectly labeled evidence or some s*** and that's why it had to be dropped. Now if something like that is actually what happened, is that worse than high ranking members of PSU not following through on allegations? I don't think so.

 

And I'm only asking under that caveat; that the police f***ed up some small detail that rendered the case inadmissible.

Of course it's entirely speculation...but based on how odd that police/DA action appears to be...would folks be surprised if the reason why the police didn't push forwards farther winds up actually being "It was Penn State Football"?

[StrangeSox]

Of course it's entirely speculation...but based on how odd that police/DA action appears to be...would folks be surprised if the reason why the police didn't push forwards farther winds up actually being "It was Penn State Football"?

 

I'd be more surprised if it wasn't, to be perfectly honest. And that's certainly worse than Paterno's actions.

[Balta1701]

I'd be more surprised if it wasn't, to be perfectly honest. And that's certainly worse than Paterno's actions.

Would that be enough to send a DA to prison or are they protected in some fashion?

[Milkman delivers]

Of course it's entirely speculation...but based on how odd that police/DA action appears to be...would folks be surprised if the reason why the police didn't push forwards farther winds up actually being "It was Penn State Football"?

 

I wouldn't be surprised in the least. But I don't like the fact that we're being told to give Paterno some leeway until we find out the results, but we should be angry at the police for doing nothing when there might also be evidence that allows them to be seen in a much better light.

[StrangeSox]

Would that be enough to send a DA to prison or are they protected in some fashion?

 

[derail]prosecutors seem to be immune from intentional misconduct, so probably[/derail]