Penn State horror story

[RockRaines]

This is such crap. He made some mistakes. He's not the monster at the center of this.

No, he's not. But do you absolve him of any wrong doing? Remember this is a guy who learned about Sandusky's transgressions first in 1998 then again in 2002. His most vocal and up to this point worst victim met him in 2006, 8 years after Paterno first learned of his inappropriate contact with young boys.

[iamshack]

That took long. From "did not report the rape of minors" to "Hitler". Congratulations.

Why don't you take the same advice you felt so self-righteously entitled to give J4L?

[RockRaines]

No, what I am saying is that he probably knew by then and was horrified to come to the conclusion he did. Which is why he completely disassociated (and my guess is probably was absolutely sickened) himself with Sandusky and just wanted to not even have to think about what might have gone on over the course of the last 30 years. He turned it over to someone else to deal with and unfortunately it was not ever appropriately handled. Not by the administration, nor the legal authorities.

Your whole statement is because of what happened in 1998. So again when he learned of it from a witness in 2002 you are telling me he did the right thing?

[iamshack]

And now that everything is out in the open, now that everything has been revealed...I could accept that. I could accept that he was simply shell-shocked at the time. I really could believe that.

 

But if that's the explanation, if that's exactly what happened, then he needs to resign. That means he made a mistake, and now that everyone out there understands the mistake he made, he needs to take the step to show that he's coming to grips with his own actions. End his involvement in the story, get out of the way, and let Penn State deal with the many more hard days ahead without having to worry about him.

Well this is where the part about him being an 85 year old man who still thinks he should be coaching a football team comes in. That's what I meant in my first post in the thread. He obviously needs to be "helped" out of the way. We shouldn't suddenly expect him to realize that now.

[iamshack]

Your whole statement is because of what happened in 1998. So again when he learned of it from a witness in 2002 you are telling me he did the right thing?

Rock, at that point, in 2002, what was Paterno's association with Sandusky?

[TaylorStSox]

This is such crap. He made some mistakes. He's not the monster at the center of this.

No, but he's the face of an institution that did their best to cover it up to protect the image of their precious football program. Wtf is wrong with these people?

[Steve9347]

And that is a university issue, not a Joe Paterno issue.

Joe Paterno is easily the most powerful and influential figure at that University. If he had any morals he'd have ensured Sandusky never stepped on campus again.

[Balta1701]

Well this is where the part about him being an 85 year old man who still thinks he should be coaching a football team comes in. That's what I meant in my first post in the thread. He obviously needs to be "helped" out of the way. We shouldn't suddenly expect him to realize that now.

But what that tells me is that this 85 year old man does not fully comprehend what this situation means. His priorities are still wrong. This horrible situation happened under him, and yet he still thinks he should be coaching his football team, and that it's up to everyone else to deal with this problem...just like it was up to everyone else to deal with the problem when it first came up.

 

And that...I'm afraid, makes him look awful. That makes the "Shell Shock" excuse something I no longer care about...because he's still acting that way now.

[iamshack]

No, but he's the face of an institution that did their best to cover it up to protect the image of their precious football program. Wtf is wrong with these people?

Exactly. He's just the face, as he has been for probably 15-20 years now.

 

Maybe the majority of the blame should be directed at the people actually making decisions about things other than simply football games.

[RockRaines]

Rock, at that point, in 2002, what was Paterno's association with Sandusky?

Dont really know, all we know is that Sandusky was allowed to take young boys to practice and PSU would pay to fly him and the kids to events and bowl games. Outside of that Paterno was just the most powerful man at an institution where rape took place by a professor emeritus, and he happened to be the guy an eye witness came to for resolution.

[RockRaines]

Exactly. He's just the face, as he has been for probably 15-20 years now.

 

Maybe the majority of the blame should be directed at the people actually making decisions about things other than simply football games.

The blame falls on the President of the University, Curley the AD, Schwartz and Paterno. All the people who were made aware of the issues stemming back to 1998.

 

Heres a trick question: Of the above, which one of them still has a job at PSU?

[TaylorStSox]

Exactly. He's just the face, as he has been for probably 15-20 years now.

 

Maybe the majority of the blame should be directed at the people actually making decisions about things other than simply football games.

They all get to share the blame. They're all pieces of s***, deviant cowards and the institution they represent gets to share their shame.

[iamshack]

But what that tells me is that this 85 year old man does not fully comprehend what this situation means. His priorities are still wrong. This horrible situation happened under him, and yet he still thinks he should be coaching his football team, and that it's up to everyone else to deal with this problem...just like it was up to everyone else to deal with the problem when it first came up.

 

And that...I'm afraid, makes him look awful. That makes the "Shell Shock" excuse something I no longer care about...because he's still acting that way now.

I doubt he does fully comprehend it. I could be wrong, maybe Joe is sharp as a tack. But I view him as a guy that has and is dedicated to try and make the university and community better by winning football games, the only thing he has ever really known in the last 65 years. He concerns himself with football issues, and not much else.

 

I don't think he wanted anything to be covered up. I think he reported it and hoped it would go away and I think he just probably believes Sandusky will get his judgment by someone far more important than him.

 

Again, this is all very easy to criticize his behavior in hindsight. But can you seriously argue that there weren't several people far more responsible, but even more importantly, professionally capable to deal with this situation after Paterno reported it than he?

[Jordan4life_2007]

I was gonna bounce from this thread. But Steve, you're full of s***. You always got something smart to say when I don't agree with you over non-sports related topics. You're a sheep. I'm not insensitive to the situation at hand. Abuse of a child is sickening. I can look at certain situations from every angle. Now unless it comes out that Joe Paterno had direct knowledge that abuse was taking place, I stand by what I've said. I don't give a s*** who agrees with me or not. That doesn't concern me. Save all your speculation. Yes, I've read the GJ report. And there's nothing that suggests, IMO, he knew first-hand of what was talking place. If anything, the dude was a f***ing moron and naive. Not a role-playing perpetrator of sexual abuse of children.

[Balta1701]

Again, this is all very easy to criticize his behavior in hindsight. But can you seriously argue that there weren't several people far more responsible, but even more importantly, professionally capable to deal with this situation after Paterno reported it than he?

None of that changes my statement that the right thing for him to do right now is resign.

 

If he is unable to decide to do that, or unwilling to, then the university needs to do it for him, and fire him in disgrace.

[Jenksismyhero]

No, he's not. But do you absolve him of any wrong doing? Remember this is a guy who learned about Sandusky's transgressions first in 1998 then again in 2002. His most vocal and up to this point worst victim met him in 2006, 8 years after Paterno first learned of his inappropriate contact with young boys.

 

Well first, you keep saying he first learned about this guy and his "transgressions" in 1998. You're speculating here. Just because campus police investigated him and told him to stop (equally terrible job btw) doesn't mean Paterno found out about it. He might have, but that wasn't part of the grand jury finding. In fact, given the fact that higher ups tried to cover the bigger scandal, there's actually good reason to believe that Paterno was never told.

 

Second, I've said that Paterno probably should have done more. But he told his superiors right away and IMO had every reason to believe that they would handle it in the appropriate way. He made a mistake. A mistake that he clearly owns up to. Unless you really believe he was ok with this act (which flies in the face of everything he's done the last 50 years of his career teaching young men about life and football), then it was a mistake and he shouldn't be the center of this thing.

 

Third, I just think this grandstanding "oh I would have driven to the FBI's headquarters and reported all this stuff myself if I were him!" is nonsense. It completely ignores the context of the situation. The guy is f***ing human and made a mistake he probably regrets. Not wanting the guy to be labeled as more of a monster than the guy actually raping young boys isn't about having a lower moral standard.

[iamshack]

Dont really know, all we know is that Sandusky was allowed to take young boys to practice and PSU would pay to fly him and the kids to events and bowl games. Outside of that Paterno was just the most powerful man at an institution where rape took place by a professor emeritus, and he happened to be the guy an eye witness came to for resolution.

Would you be shocked if you find out Paterno made sure he retired, told him he never wanted to see or speak to him again, and refused to be associated with him in any way?

 

Why is Paterno somehow charged with controlling the logistics of every facility or event that PSU is involved with all the sudden?

 

Prior to this week, would you have suspected Paterno had a clue who was being flown where by PSU, or every person that was using their training facilities?

[RockRaines]

None of that changes my statement that the right thing for him to do right now is resign.

 

If he is unable to decide to do that, or unwilling to, then the university needs to do it for him, and fire him in disgrace.

Of all the people involved in the exchange of information and dealings with Sandusky, only Paterno and McQueary still have their jobs. The President, AD and Dept Chair are all gone.

[TaylorStSox]

I was gonna bounce from this thread. But Steve, you're full of s***. You always got something smart to say when I don't agree with you over non-sports related topics. You're a sheep. I'm not insensitive to the situation at hand. Abuse of a child is sickening. I can look at certain situations from every angle. Now unless it comes out that Joe Paterno had direct knowledge that abuse was taking place, I stand by what I've said. I don't give a s*** who agrees with me or not. That doesn't concern me. Save all your speculation. Yes, I've read the GJ report. And there's nothing that suggests, IMO, he knew first-hand of what was talking place. If anything, the dude was a f***ing moron and naive. Not a role-playing perpetrator of sexual abuse of children.

 

Yet they still provided an environment for the guy to prey on kids. The cover up and enabling really pisses me off. It's unfathomable to me.

[iamshack]

None of that changes my statement that the right thing for him to do right now is resign.

 

If he is unable to decide to do that, or unwilling to, then the university needs to do it for him, and fire him in disgrace.

I don't have a problem with that.

[RockRaines]

Well first, you keep saying he first learned about this guy and his "transgressions" in 1998. You're speculating here. Just because campus police investigated him and told him to stop (equally terrible job btw) doesn't mean Paterno found out about it. He might have, but that wasn't part of the grand jury finding. In fact, given the fact that higher ups tried to cover the bigger scandal, there's actually good reason to believe that Paterno was never told.

So you're telling me I am just speculating that the direct supervisor of an employee would be informed of the details of an official investigation regarding said employee's conduct with children ON CAMPUS and in the football building?

 

Come on man. Joe didnt know why Sandusky was forced into retirement? He never asked a question, he wasnt present at any meetings? Maybe he is the dumbest most ignorant guy of all time then.

 

 

The next two paragraphs in your post make me think you are totally fine with forgiving people who make a mistake (not commit a crime) and are regretful for it, especially if they have done so much good over their lives and career. I, as a Tressel fan, fully support your viewpoint there.

Edited November 9, 2011 by RockRaines

[southsider2k5]

Well yeah, how many people have clicked on an OSU or Miami link in the past 9 months regardless of the information being rehashed. People love scandals especially those relating to a prominent entity or a figurehead of an institution.

 

There is zero comparison between what happened at Penn State and any of the other "scandals" out there. This is on a whole other level

[Steve9347]

Seriously, how can anyone read the Grand Jury Report and think Joe Paterno doesn't need to be fired... regardless if he "reported" what he knew. F*cking page 2 talks of Sandusky bringing a child to Penn State practice sometime after 2007. Yup, and even though Paterno knew of Sandusky's perverted, disgusting acts of the past, he did nothing to PROECT A HELPLESS CHILD.

 

Give me a f***ing break. Note the dates below, as they happen well after 1998, when Joe Paterno undoubtedly had knowledge of Sandusky's evil ways.

 

During the course of the multi-year investigation, the Grand Jury heard evidence that Sandusky indecently fondled Victim 1 on a number of occassions, performed oral sex on Victim 1 on a number of occassions, and had Victim 1 perform oral sex on him on at least one occassion.

 

Victim 1 testified that he was 11 or 12 years old when he met Sandusky through The Second Mile program in 2005 or 2006.

 

During the 2007 track season, Sandusky began spending time with Victim 1 weekly, having the boy stay overnight at his residence in State College, Pennsylvania. Sandusky took Victim 1 to professional and college sporting events, such as Philadelphia Eagles games, or pre-season practices at Penn State.

 

That's just blatant disregard for that poor kid's safety. JoePa knows, with absolutely no doubt, that Sandusky rapes and molests little boys. Oh, but he reported the past incident, so it's not HIS problem. He has to focus on coaching football, after all.

 

But yes, poor Joe Paterno. He just wants to coach football. These innocent children he carelessly enabled that monster Sandusky to associate with... well, that's not his fault. He didn't DO IT. The media are the true monsters here, making Joe Paterno seem like some sort of asshole who has no problem with the rape of children. Remember... "beat Nebraska!"

 

The man held a pep rally on his f***ing lawn today. F*ck him.

[RockRaines]

There is zero comparison between what happened at Penn State and any of the other "scandals" out there. This is on a whole other level

I was merely pointing out people's propensity to click on links regarding "scandals"in college football. I wasnt comparing the two as far as severity.

[RockRaines]

Steve, I believe that was also after he was banned from taking children with him on PSU campus.