LittleHurt05 Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 09:52 PM) By all accounts Paterno has been nothing but a saint for PSU, we all make mistakes. And even if its entirely true, I still think its hard to justify firing Paterno for not calling the police. Did those boys that were abused by Sandusky after Paterno & company didn't call the police also "make mistakes"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 09:52 PM) At a Grand Jury you can present evidence that would not be allowed at trial, such a hearsay evidence from people who never saw the crime, etc. Where in the GJ report was heresay introduced that painted this in a different light? In the interview of all the rape victims, which one of them didnt see the crime? When they interviewed Paterno, Schultz and Curley and their stories differed from the victims, which parts were heresay? You are making statements that are baseless and not related to this case at all just because you can throw some legal bulls*** out there. PSU needed to clean house of EVERYONE that knew about this information and didnt do anything for YEARS. JoePa knew about it when he fired Sandusky and he was then told first hand 4 years later and also didnt call the cops. He could have saved at least 3 or more kids from being molested by a sexual predator. You may be ok with that, but I am glad that the BOT isnt retarded. And I think its been clearly established in College football and college academics that a single mistake, no matter what your history and other contributions may be, will get you axed. Edited November 10, 2011 by RockRaines Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Im not even sure what you are trying to say. But I do get that its a lot easier to react to terrible tragedies by wanting to kill everyone as some sort of an attempt to make things right. Unfortunately there is really no correlation. Destroying Paterno wont save more children from being molested, it will just destroy an 84 year old man. I understand the easy answers, I just choose to give the hard but just answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 10:01 PM) Im not even sure what you are trying to say. But I do get that its a lot easier to react to terrible tragedies by wanting to kill everyone as some sort of an attempt to make things right. Unfortunately there is really no correlation. Destroying Paterno wont save more children from being molested, it will just destroy an 84 year old man. I understand the easy answers, I just choose to give the hard but just answer. Or firing a guy because you have grounds for termination. But yeah, continue with your argument counselor. The BOT can even say he violated an NCAA rule to oust him if they wanted: 19.01.2 - Exemplary Conduct. Individuals employed by or associated with member institutions for the administration, the conduct or the coaching of intercollegiate athletics are, in the final analysis, teachers of young people. Their responsibility is an affirmative one, and they must do more than avoid improper conduct or questionable acts. Their own moral values must be so certain and positive that those younger and more pliable will be influenced by a fine example. Much more is expected of them than of the less critically placed citizen. Edited November 10, 2011 by RockRaines Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danman31 Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 09:56 PM) This really needs to be put in perspective. Brian Kelly's direct action caused the death of a student, he is still coaching today. There was no talk of ND death penalty. Its crazy how people swarm and want to destroy a guy. That's a good point. One that has been made by a number of people (on here even). Kelly could be fired and I wouldn't think it was wrong, but maybe that goes with your 'if Paterno was 30 years younger' argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Hurtin Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 11:03 PM) Or firing a guy because you have grounds for termination. But yeah, continue with your argument counselor. The BOT can even say he violated an NCAA rule to oust him if they wanted: Yeah, i must have missed the part where he was going to be placed in the electric chair tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 QUOTE (Big Hurtin @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 10:06 PM) Yeah, i must have missed the part where he was going to be placed in the electric chair tomorrow. It fairly simple but apologists and apparently defense lawyers want to make it out to be a horrific tragedy that he lost his job. He was the last domino to fall, the President, the AD, the Dept director all lost THEIR jobs from having a role in this, why should Paterno be the only one who keeps his? Because he's old? Come on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 10:01 PM) Im not even sure what you are trying to say. But I do get that its a lot easier to react to terrible tragedies by wanting to kill everyone as some sort of an attempt to make things right. Unfortunately there is really no correlation. Destroying Paterno wont save more children from being molested, it will just destroy an 84 year old man. I understand the easy answers, I just choose to give the hard but just answer. We are talking about firing the guy, not electrocuting him. He represents a university and coaches/raises 18-21 year old men. He f***ed up in a very bad situation and is facing the consequences years after the fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 10:10 PM) We are talking about firing the guy, not electrocuting him. He represents a university and coaches/raises 18-21 year old men. He f***ed up in a very bad situation and is facing the consequences years after the fact. Coaches get canned and persecuted for sending f***ing text messages or having backyard BBQ's and we are supposed to make an exception for a guy who turned a blind eye to repeated cases of child molestation? Apparently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Rock, The only facts that matter are what was said between the assistant and Paterno. None of the rape victims told Paterno, itd be a hell of a lot different if they had. Right, read the facts. Sandusky and Curley said that the GA reported it as horsing around. They also use words such as "not serious", etc. If youve ever read a criminal complaint, it reads as if every allegation is a fact, regardless of whether or not its true. There is a reason why a grand jury indictment is not a conviction, what we are reading is the govts best argument, and even then its not really clear what was said to Paterno. But hey, youre right, thats what you want to hear isnt it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 10:12 PM) Rock, The only facts that matter are what was said between the assistant and Paterno. None of the rape victims told Paterno, itd be a hell of a lot different if they had. Right, read the facts. Sandusky and Curley said that the GA reported it as horsing around. They also use words such as "not serious", etc. If youve ever read a criminal complaint, it reads as if every allegation is a fact, regardless of whether or not its true. There is a reason why a grand jury indictment is not a conviction, what we are reading is the govts best argument, and even then its not really clear what was said to Paterno. But hey, youre right, thats what you want to hear isnt it? Then why did they tell him to stop bringing kids around campus??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 One key question has been why Paterno and other top school officials didn't go to police in 2002 after being told a graduate assistant saw Sandusky assaulting a boy in a school shower. "This is a tragedy," Paterno said in a statement earlier Wednesday. "It is one of the great sorrows of my life. With the benefit of hindsight, I wish I had done more." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Danman, It goes with if Paterno was 30 years younger. The guy just cant fight this, its so completely out of the guys character, and from the reports there is no allegations that Paterno failed to report some of the abuse. That would be where I think youd have to fire him, if he knew about things and didnt report it. But under Pennsylvania law, its the duty of the school to report once Paterno did. So there really is no reason for him to believe that another person in his school was going to break the law. If a teacher at a school tells a Principal that they think they see some one with drugs, the teacher then doesnt call the police to double check that the Principal properly investigated. It just stands to reason that there was a proper investigation done. Paterno was not even called to any other meetings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 10:12 PM) Rock, The only facts that matter are what was said between the assistant and Paterno. None of the rape victims told Paterno, itd be a hell of a lot different if they had. Right, read the facts. Sandusky and Curley said that the GA reported it as horsing around. They also use words such as "not serious", etc. If youve ever read a criminal complaint, it reads as if every allegation is a fact, regardless of whether or not its true. There is a reason why a grand jury indictment is not a conviction, what we are reading is the govts best argument, and even then its not really clear what was said to Paterno. But hey, youre right, thats what you want to hear isnt it? LOL, stop just stop. The guy got rightfully got canned and he admitted he didnt do what he should have. Keep defending the case, even Paterno admits he didnt do what was right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Rock, What is he going to say? "I wish more kids got raped." If you find out that through your inaction someone got hurt, you are going to feel bad. That doesnt mean he deserves this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 10:17 PM) Rock, What is he going to say? "I wish more kids got raped." If you find out that through your inaction someone got hurt, you are going to feel bad. That doesnt mean he deserves this. Stop posting to me, I dont care what your f***ed up opinion is. You think he did nothing wrong and should have kept his job. Good for you, nice viewpoint, thanks for sharing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 SI_sarahkwakSarah Kwak Just a thought for the PSU students... An 18-year-old college freshman would have been about 9 years old in 2002... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 10:19 PM) SI_sarahkwakSarah Kwak Just a thought for the PSU students... An 18-year-old college freshman would have been about 9 years old in 2002... Yikes. I feel bad for the PSU students and fans. They had nothing to do with any of this and the simple act of wearing their apparel is going to bring about a negative reaction from almost everyone. PSU is a great institution and this will stick with them for quite awhile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Rioting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 (edited) Rock, Reuben Carter spent how many years in jail. If people stop, people get railroaded. I may be right, I may be wrong, but I damn well am going to uncover every stone, go through every damn piece of evidence, before I ruin a guys life. I dont care if its the most heinous crime and the most unlikable victim, Im going to make sure that I damn well know everything. So tell me to stop, but remember that anyone can be falsely accused and that if no one is there to challenge the accusations, we will all be sorry. There is plenty of time to find out the facts, its not like Paterno coaching 4 more games is going to change the fact that the school let him coach for 9 years after the incident, entirely aware of the incident. It seems hypocritical that PSU only cares now that there is a firestorm of media. But none of its really relevant, this is about the simple fact that the American system has been so screwed up that people take dicta statements in an govt complaint as fact. (And dont worry I wont post to you again, I already had done this before you requested.) Edited November 10, 2011 by Soxbadger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 (edited) Someone attacked the ESPN Camera guy. And if getting fired "ruins" Joe Paterno's life then I have no sympathy for the man. At least 8 kids have had their lives ruined by Sandusky, alot worse than just losing a job. Edited November 10, 2011 by RockRaines Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sir Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 As one of the resident Penn Staters, this is the saddest sports news of my life. I would comment more, but I'm really speechless. I think Sandusky is a monster who should spend the rest of his miserable life in prison, and I absolutely think JoePa should have done more. That doesn't mean I'm not shocked and dismayed by this news. The whole damn thing makes me sad and disgusted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 QUOTE (God Loves The Infantry @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 10:26 PM) As one of the resident Penn Staters, this is the saddest sports news of my life. I would comment more, but I'm really speechless. I think Sandusky is a monster who should spend the rest of his miserable life in prison, and I absolutely think JoePa should have done more. That doesn't mean I'm not shocked and dismayed by this news. The whole damn thing makes me sad and disgusted. Its awful dude, I feel really bad for you. The fan base, students and players did nothing wrong here and they will face incredible scrutiny and obstacles in the near future. I would say continue to wear your PSU gear with pride, its the only thing you can do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord chas Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Just a shameful day for society Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 I'm glad he's fired. Go f*** yourself, Joe! QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 09:13 PM) I think we also have to recognize that Sandusky is innocent until proven guilty. A grand jury indictment is not even close to a conviction. This is just to be devils advocate, but what happens if it turns out that Sandusky is innocent? It would be a lot different if Sandusky was convicted. I know you're a lawyer and playing Devil's advocate, but shut up. There are about 20 kids coming forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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