Balta1701 Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 01:01 PM) Ive never said that. Ive merely said that you are taking 1 witness (who in my opinion is the main culprit) word, over 3 other witnesses. Thats not a really good place to start, especially because McQuery is the one who saw a crime and failed to report. And he also should no longer be a coach at that institution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Balta, With the benefit of hindsight is the key term in Paterno's statement. Basically he is saying that had he known more, he would have done more. Now he could be flat out lying, I just have yet to see any evidence to suggest it. Its just way to early in the investigation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 12:59 PM) So you are saying there weren't grounds for termination? As of right now, if he truly wanted to take PSU to court, my guess is they would settle with him for every penny he is owed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabiness42 Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Husker, Paterno isnt the president, the President could have banned Sandusky. The President did further interviews with the GA and then did nothing. Paterno is a football coach, his job is to report the action and let the appropriate people handle it. Correct me if Im wrong, but in 2002 Sandusky was not even part of Paterno's staff? In State College, Joe Paterno was the king. If he wanted something done about it, something would have been done about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Balta, How do you know that? What if the real truth is McQuery told Paterno, "I saw Sandusky wrestling with a little boy, but it didnt seem to be a big deal at all, thats why I didnt call the police." Should Paterno have called the police? Im just saying without knowing what happened its hard to determine what his actions should have been. Everyone is acting like he absolutely knew Sandusky was raping kids. That just isnt supported by the facts (as of today). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Iamshack, Theyd definitely settle, and probably pay him more than hes owed to keep it confidential. He reported it to the President. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 12:00 PM) Oh yeah, for sure. We're just a message board. JoePa got canned because he and the rest of the administration allowed a monster to continue to roam campus and ruin children's lives. He certainly needed to be canned for that. He's not a "fall-guy", he deserved to be canned. No one can question this. However, I think things are much worse than we know right now. Just wait when the details shake out and people start singing like birds. When we find out the details about Sandusky, the coach in waiting, retiring because of the first incident in conjunction with the staff covering his actions up it will be sick. I still don't understand how Paterno could hear n 2 separate occasions about his actions with boys and as a board member of the 2nd mile charity didn't report this to the rest of the leadership. It took another 5 years until they were informed. Where was his head at that time? Wouldn't you immediately report these actions to the charity that places him near little boys? Maybe you wouldn't if it was harder to control the people outside of PSU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 01:04 PM) Balta, How do you know that? What if the real truth is McQuery told Paterno, "I saw Sandusky wrestling with a little boy, but it didnt seem to be a big deal at all, thats why I didnt call the police." Should Paterno have called the police? Im just saying without knowing what happened its hard to determine what his actions should have been. Everyone is acting like he absolutely knew Sandusky was raping kids. That just isnt supported by the facts (as of today). Regardless, it was clear that the witness saw something inappropriate involving Mr. Sandusky His own words. If all you got was "Something inappropriate involving an 8 year old boy"...and you are in the same position as Joe Paterno, it is incumbent upon you to act more. Whether that is asking more questions or taking a harsher stance with administration to make sure that it is dealt with, you have to do something more. Failure to do that alone is cause for him being fired. No one is suggesting he is legally culpable for anythign here. He reported it upwards, and the people above him decided to cover it up. He may at some point be named as a conspirator in a coverup by the people above him, that remains to be seen, but at present, he's not a criminal, but he received from the university exactly what needed to happen. Quite simply...failure to do enough in response to what he has already admitted to hearing is more than grounds for termination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 12:03 PM) As of right now, if he truly wanted to take PSU to court, my guess is they would settle with him for every penny he is owed. Is that a yes or no? He violated his contract with his code of conduct violation and also violated an NCAA rule which also violates his contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 12:08 PM) His own words. If all you got was "Something inappropriate involving an 8 year old boy"...and you are in the same position as Joe Paterno, it is incumbent upon you to act more. Whether that is asking more questions or taking a harsher stance with administration to make sure that it is dealt with, you have to do something more. Failure to do that alone is cause for him being fired. No one is suggesting he is legally culpable for anythign here. He reported it upwards, and the people above him decided to cover it up. He may at some point be named as a conspirator in a coverup by the people above him, that remains to be seen, but at present, he's not a criminal, but he received from the university exactly what needed to happen. Quite simply...failure to do enough in response to what he has already admitted to hearing is more than grounds for termination. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/10/sports/ncaafootb all/aspiring-coach-in-middle-of-colleges-scandal.h tml?hp "He has said under oath that he saw Sandusky raping what appeared to be a 10-year-old boy. He immediately left, met with his father and determined he would report the incident to Paterno, according to prosecutors. A person familiar with his account said McQueary did not spare the details when he met with Paterno. Nor did he when he met with the university’s athletic director and another senior administrator, the man in charge of Penn State’s campus police." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max power Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 11:49 AM) While i appreciate the intellectual exercise you are trying to take people on here, you are pretty much wasting your time here. And that is coming from someone who is always wrapped up in stupid arguments. lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 I disagree that its grounds for termination. Im not saying that morally Paterno shouldnt have done more. Im not saying that he wont go to hell if he knew and failed. Im just saying that its hard to fire a guy for failing to call the police, when he reported it to his supervisor, and the supervisor failed to take the appropriate response. I get that his supervisor is being fired, but I think that the blame needs to be at the top, and I think Penn State needs to be severely punished. Right now Penn State is getting away with this, because everyone is so focused on Paterno. Penn State let this happen, why are we not trying to destroy the school? I just dont understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Rock, "A person familiar" That means that they arent even quoting McQuery. That is such unreliable evidence. So far no one has shown me McQuery's testimony, no one has quoted it verbatim. You are taking 3rd hand knowledge as fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 what are you TALKING ABOUT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Rock, yeah, I know, i read that part. I'm just trying to illustrate a point to anyone trying to say that Paterno is being treated too harshly. Even if you assume that account is wrong and Paterno's account is right, then Paterno still should have done more. If you go entirely based off of Joe Paterno's 2 pre-firing statements, then the right move for the university was his removal. And if anything more comes out, then that's a matter for the DA, police, and history to judge. He should not be coaching this weekend. The Trustees had to do that. The other guy involved should not be coaching. The AD and President involved should be gone. Clean the house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 11:57 AM) They went to GJ with 4 victims and about 16 more have shaken out so far. But I'm sure it's all conjecture and heresay. I think you are taking SBs statements a step too far. He isn't saying that they are conjecture and hearsay. He is saying without a proper hearing, you don't know that they aren't beyond a reasonable doubt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 12:13 PM) Clean the house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 01:11 PM) Penn State let this happen, why are we not trying to destroy the school? I'd say that everyone involved needs removed immediately, and everyone except McQueary has already been removed. The next step for the Trustees is you have to figure out not just who was involved, but how the culture of the program allowed for this coverup to take place. Those type of reforms take a lot longer, and they're a lot harder to do because those level of programs are given god-like status (which is probably why the police backed off in the first place.) I believe the Trustees also have started an investigation into the university's role in the matter. That is the exact step which needed to be taken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 11:30 AM) bmags, A child molester was running rampant on PSU campus. Joe Pa reported it to PSU. The people who are responsible are PSU, if you are going to fire Paterno, you need to burn that school to the ground as well. The real criminals are the President etc, the ones who had a duty to report but failed to report. Had they simply followed the law, we arent here today. As for a PR class, this is the most brilliant PR move by PSU. They fire a coach who they already wanted to get rid of, and that means they made the right decision? What about the fact they knew about this for months (if not years) and didnt terminate Paterno? They still havent terminated the GA. Its entirely a PR move. And the sad part is that media is eating it up. They arent asking the hard questions, HOW DID PSU LET THIS HAPPEN? Steve, Firing Paterno, not firing Paterno, wont make any difference for the children. You have to compartmentalize if you want to deal with terrible things. You want to save children, burn down PSU. Show every other school in the nation that if your President fails to follow the law, that the school goes down with the ship. That will change things. Paterno being fired changes nothing. I have yet to hear why PSU shouldnt be taking the brunt of the blame here. So I guess maybe Im more a champion for the innocents than you are, because I want there to be real justice, for the true criminals. I dont care about scapegoats, that is just to obscure the real truth there. And that truth is that Penn State primarily failed these children, not Joe Paterno. Your inconsistencies and assumptions are just pathetic. You claim that the entire university needs to be burned to the ground because they all knew about the rape. Unlike Paterno and everyone else who has been fired (besides McQueary for some reason), there is no proof that anyone else knew anything. But you want them all fired because of that, while you don't want Paterno fired when there is undeniable proof that he was given information about it. And you keep saying that the real criminals are the President and AD. That is true, and they are likely going to be tried as criminals for lying to the Grand Jury. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 11:39 AM) No Kyle, thats what Mcquery says today. You dont know its true, for all we know McQuery told Paterno "Its not a big deal" and is now covering his own ass. Everyone just wants to jump at the worst possible story, but Ive yet to see the transcript of McQuerys testimony. Has anyone here seen the transcript? Because the Complaint is not testimony. Paterno's testimony does not appear to contradict his story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Balta, As I said previously, the appropriate response would have been a suspension, pending an investigation. In that case hes not coaching this weekend. SS2K, Im not even saying that. Im merely saying there are 2 people who know what Paterno was told. 1 of them may be saying it was very specific, the other is saying it wasnt very specific. Without getting to cross examine McQuery, you really dont know if the guy isnt just completely lying about what he told Paterno. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 It's so easy to click 'quote' and 'reply'. Easier and quicker than typing a screen name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Strangesox, From the complaint it did appear his testimony conflicted. Ive yet to see the transcript, so I cant go through it line by line and give a real opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 11:33 AM) Kyle, My guess is that when mcquery went to Paterno, he told him that he saw something strange, but he wasnt exactly sure what it is. My next guess is that as this investigation began to blow up, Mcquery changed his story to protect his ass. If you notice, he hasnt been fired, even though he was arguably the first line of defense and an eye witness. Milkman, You do know in a grand jury, you dont get to cross examine the witness, right? That is how you attack credibility. If I go in a grand jury and make up a story that I saw you raping kids, Im going to sound extremely credible. It doesnt mean its true, because when your attorney gets to cross me in the trial, hell tear me apart. Exactly, you're willing to paint McQueary as the bad guy because it suits your defense of Paterno. Your bias here is absolutely ludicrous and I'm glad that absolutely nobody is buying your bulls***. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 My bias? I dont care for Paterno, I dont care for PSU. I just happen to be involved with lawsuits on a daily basis, and my opinion is based on my experience. Why do you think McQuery is more credible? What has he done in this matter, to make you believe hes telling the truth? Did he call the police? Did he report it immediately? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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