StrangeSox Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 12:15 PM) Your inconsistencies and assumptions are just pathetic. You claim that the entire university needs to be burned to the ground because they all knew about the rape. If it shakes out that the cover-up was deliberate and they knew what happened, I'd be comfortable with calling for their football stadium to be burned to the ground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 12:20 PM) If it shakes out that the cover-up was deliberate and they knew what happened, I'd be comfortable with calling for their football stadium to be burned to the ground. I don't see how the cover-up wouldn't be deliberate. We're at the tip of this iceberg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 12:18 PM) Strangesox, From the complaint it did appear his testimony conflicted. Ive yet to see the transcript, so I cant go through it line by line and give a real opinion. Yeah, it'll be interesting if/when that comes out. My reading of the GJ report and Paterno's actions since tell me that McQueary wasn't lying when he described what he told Joe and, later, the admin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 12:21 PM) I don't see how the cover-up wouldn't be deliberate. We're at the tip of this iceberg. Well I meant that they knew the full reality of what was going on and for how long and chose PSU football and their own reputations over the past and future victims. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Guys, stop giving PSU a pass, their legendary football coach that was synonymous with Penn State for 60 years has just been kicked out for his negligence in a serial child rape case on campus from his defensive coordinator for decates was fired, along with their president and AD. And students rioted over these revelations. Why do they get to have their cake and eat it too. Start saying something negative about Penn ST! green needed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 12:20 PM) My bias? I dont care for Paterno, I dont care for PSU. I just happen to be involved with lawsuits on a daily basis, and my opinion is based on my experience. Why do you think McQuery is more credible? What has he done in this matter, to make you believe hes telling the truth? The number of claims against Sandusky as well as the 1998 incident lend an incredible amount of weight to the likelihood that he molested children. This isn't an isolated incident. AFAIK, Sandusky hasn't issued any denials, either. Additionally, what would be his motive to lie here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 12:20 PM) If it shakes out that the cover-up was deliberate and they knew what happened, I'd be comfortable with calling for their football stadium to be burned to the ground. IMO based in the timelines and circumstances I think this is exactly what is going to come out. Wy else would the coach in waiting be forced into retirement directly after being investigated for molestation. Why else would PSU ban Sandusky from taking boys on campus in 2002. Why else would Paterno hide these investigations from the rest of the board at the Second Mile for 10 years other than he wanted to keep it internal to an organization he could control. The worst is yet to come on this one. Edited November 10, 2011 by RockRaines Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 12:20 PM) My bias? I dont care for Paterno, I dont care for PSU. I just happen to be involved with lawsuits on a daily basis, and my opinion is based on my experience. Why do you think McQuery is more credible? What has he done in this matter, to make you believe hes telling the truth? Did he call the police? Did he report it immediately? Your bias is your undying need to take the opposing side of any argument, while never, ever admitting to being wrong. You're very good at it, too, don't get me we wrong. When given evidence against your argument, you alter your stance ever so slightly and attack either small aspects of the opposing theory or create arguments that aren't being made by anyone. And then you just argue and argue until nobody gives a s*** anymore and just drops it because of the futility of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Funny how an error in judgement is grounds for many other coaches to lose their jobs, but with Paterno, no way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 11:35 AM) Which is why Spanier, Curley, Schultz, and Paterno have lost their Jobs, which you continue to gloss over. Every single one of those guys was a link in a failed chain of command. Look, we all know the media is focusing on JoePa. He is the focal point of the university, he has been for 50 something years. That doesnt mean he is the only one who got blamed here, he is just the biggest name here. Nobody knows who the f*** Spanier, Curley and Schultz are. And I totally agree, McQueary should not be coaching at Penn state anymore. So very, very simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 12:23 PM) Well I meant that they knew the full reality of what was going on and for how long and chose PSU football and their own reputations over the past and future victims. Yeah, I'm saying I'm absolutely convinced that PSU was the only thing on the minds of the many around campus who knew what had happened, and a forced retirement and banishment from bringing kids on campus are direct results of a cover-up in action. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 12:08 PM) Is that a yes or no? He violated his contract with his code of conduct violation and also violated an NCAA rule which also violates his contract. Again, Rock, exculpatory clauses like that mean jack s*** in court. An organization cannot just make up an incredibly subjective rule such as the "code of conduct" rule involved here and use it to fire whomever they want. Most states are not right to work states. Employers can fire most employees for nearly anything. But the second they give you a contract, they are legally binded to follow the terms of that contract, unless the employee breaches it. In this instance, Paterno informed his superiors of an incident he was told about. Most legal commentators will tell you that by doing that, he not only did what was expected of him legally, but also to comply with the terms of his contract. PSU is firing him here because it simply must be done. And I agree. This story has gotten so big and the public backlash is so strong (in part because of the media coverage in regards to Paterno), that they have no other choice but to sacrifice him, even if it means settling with him afterwards for their illegal termination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 12:24 PM) The worst is yet to come on this one. No question about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 12:28 PM) Again, Rock, exculpatory clauses like that mean jack s*** in court. An organization cannot just make up an incredibly subjective rule such as the "code of conduct" rule involved here and use it to fire whomever they want. Most states are not right to work states. Employers can fire most employees for nearly anything. But the second they give you a contract, they are legally binded to follow the terms of that contract, unless the employee breaches it. In this instance, Paterno informed his superiors of an incident he was told about. Most legal commentators will tell you that by doing that, he not only did what was expected of him legally, but also to comply with the terms of his contract. So if he has a stipulation in his contract the he can be terminated if he violates an NCAA rule, and then he violates a rule, and still can't be fired? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 01:28 PM) Yeah, I'm saying I'm absolutely convinced that PSU was the only thing on the minds of the many around campus who knew what had happened, and a forced retirement and banishment from bringing kids on campus are direct results of a cover-up in action. And it's probably going to come out that this is why the police and DA backed off on investigating the coach in 1998 as well. Because it was Penn State Football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 12:31 PM) So if he has a stipulation in his contract the he can be terminated if he violates an NCAA rule, and then he violates a rule, and still can't be fired? Yes. I highly doubt he has such a stipulation though What's the NCAA rule you keep referring to, anyways? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 12:28 PM) Yeah, I'm saying I'm absolutely convinced that PSU was the only thing on the minds of the many around campus who knew what had happened, and a forced retirement and banishment from bringing kids on campus are direct results of a cover-up in action. Following along what shack, soxbadger and others are stressing, we don't actually know that. I personally think it's a safe assumption, but I'm not willing to go that far yet based on what we know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 01:28 PM) PSU is firing him here because it simply must be done. And I agree. This story has gotten so big and the public backlash is so strong (in part because of the media coverage in regards to Paterno), that they have no other choice but to sacrifice him, even if it means settling with him afterwards for their illegal termination. Seriously, it's not the "Media coverage" that has made the public backlash strong here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 12:33 PM) Yes. I highly doubt he has such a stipulation though What's the NCAA rule you keep referring to, anyways? Most coaches do. And I posted it several pages back. It's a conduct rule, and could easily be invoked in this situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 12:32 PM) And it's probably going to come out that this is why the police and DA backed off on investigating the coach in 1998 as well. Because it was Penn State Football. State College, PA, baby! "Beat Nebraska!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 12:32 PM) And it's probably going to come out that this is why the police and DA backed off on investigating the coach in 1998 as well. Because it was Penn State Football. The Death Penalty wouldn't be harsh enough. And I don't mean for the football program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 12:33 PM) Following along what shack, soxbadger and others are stressing, we don't actually know that. I personally think it's a safe assumption, but I'm not willing to go that far yet based on what we know. WE can make guesses but that's about it. I'm positive the information will shake out eventually anyway, especially with outfits like the FBi involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 12:34 PM) Seriously, it's not the "Media coverage" that has made the public backlash strong here. With regards to Paterno? I respectfully disagree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 12:34 PM) Most coaches do. And I posted it several pages back. It's a conduct rule, and could easily be invoked in this situation. Yeah, good luck with the conduct rule...the vague, subjective s*** that is just redundant of the conduct code doesn't tend to hold up well in court. And he's not most coaches, btw. What he might be more vulnerable to would be a negligence charge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 01:37 PM) With regards to Paterno? I respectfully disagree. And I respectfully disagree with you. The media coverage is not provoking the outrage. The outrage is a direct effect of the fact that a major university covered up a child rapist in their midst, because he happened to be a sports coach. That would get top billing any day of the week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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