Penn State horror story

[Steve9347]

So just because people use Facebook to talk about sports instead of using a sports forum, they are morons? Do you not have a Facebook, or do you only thing others are morons for using it, but no, not you?

I ignore the mouth-breathers with uneducated opinions who don't stfu as their opinion means nothing to me. While this has been an endless argument at Soxtalk, it's also been an enjoyable and interesting debate involving posters who can pull together coherent thoughts and, mostly, look at the situation in an analytic nature.

 

They aren't people posting stupidity and hoping for "likes".

[Steve9347]

I guess I am a fool then. Because I don't believe it. I'm sorry, but powerful men that run Universities have cell phones and email accounts. They are very important people that communicate with a vast array of subordinates and carry out complex endgames.

 

They are not Joe Paterno.

 

 

 

SI

Gotta love the "he's old so he's too senile to do anything to help innocent children being raped, despite being the absolute face of PSU" argument.

[RockRaines]

I refuse to believe them. The pimping rumors have got to be so much internet wildfire.

The issue is the rumor was started by the reporter who uncovered this scandal and reported on it in April. It was dismissed back then as just a rumor as well.

[Milkman delivers]

Damn those dark Soxtalk ovelords!

 

They tortured me for some time before I acquiesced and took it down.

[StrangeSox]

You asked where the logical flaw in your conclusion was; unfortunately all your premises were inaccurate.

 

This nonsensical technical bulls*** that you and Balta always bring to the table is far more deserving of a smug emoticon than me telling Steve to take a logics class.

 

My point was that you shouldn't be such a dick to others about "take a logics class" and then fail a basic example.

 

You want to go through the premises one by one, I'm game.

 

The point is that this is not a "but for" argument. You cannot say "But for" Joe Paterno's inaction, Sandusky would have been unable to rape children. You cannot say "But for" Joe Paterno failing to report this to the police, Sandusky would no longer been able to carry on his predatory activities.

 

Sure I can, if Paterno reports this to the police, I can safely assume he's going to jail, where he won't have access to children and PSU.

 

That is simply not accurate. There are so many people that were in far greater positions to do something about this than Joe Paterno, and yet didn't, and yet you want to say if Paterno had done more, it would not have happened. That's just incredibly far from believable.

 

All of those people failing are necessary conditions. People are focusing on Paterno because some people are still defending him sitting in child fondling allegations for almost a decade, but everyone in this thread has expressed the opinion that PSU needs to "clean house" and I've personally said that Paterno is near the back of the line here.

 

 

[iamshack]

Presidents don't have emails.

 

Powerful as in "holds influence," not that he runs the entire show. Do you deny that Paterno was one of the most influential people in State College, and that people would do what he asked of them?

And you say that I am deflecting.

 

Do you deny that the police were aware of Sandusky's actions themselves, right from his own mouth, and did not prosecute him, and yet you expect me to believe Paterno is the one that should have done more?

 

This is ridiculous. The end result of Joe doing what he was morally obligated to do actually occurred - the police were aware of Sandusky's actions. And yet he still continued his predatory activity. So what would it have mattered had Joe brought it to their attention? Now they would have known doubly as much?

[iamshack]

Gotta love the "he's old so he's too senile to do anything to help innocent children being raped, despite being the absolute face of PSU" argument.

Right, because that is the argument I am making there.

 

It's obvious that I am in the minority here, which I could give a s*** about, but you guys could at least be fair about it and actually reply to the s*** I post in context.

[Kyyle23]

They tortured me for some time before I acquiesced and took it down.

 

LMAO.

 

I threatened to force him to watch Blade Runner and the Transformer trilogy back to back for 3 nights straight

[Milkman delivers]

You asked where the logical flaw in your conclusion was; unfortunately all your premises were inaccurate.

 

This nonsensical technical bulls*** that you and Balta always bring to the table is far more deserving of a smug emoticon than me telling Steve to take a logics class.

 

The point is that this is not a "but for" argument. You cannot say "But for" Joe Paterno's inaction, Sandusky would have been unable to rape children on PSU property. You cannot say "But for" Joe Paterno failing to report this to the police, Sandusky would no longer been able to carry on his predatory activities.

 

That is simply not accurate. There are so many people that were in far greater positions to do something about this than Joe Paterno, and yet didn't, and yet you want to say if Paterno had done more, it would not have happened. That's just incredibly far from believable.

 

Therein lies the crux of the argument. I absolutely think action taken by Paterno could have ended all of the molesting at PSU.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

I ignore the mouth-breathers with uneducated opinions who don't stfu as their opinion means nothing to me. While this has been an endless argument at Soxtalk, it's also been an enjoyable and interesting debate involving posters who can pull together coherent thoughts and, mostly, look at the situation in an analytic nature.

 

They aren't people posting stupidity and hoping for "likes".

 

Maybe I just refuse to call people who I obviously are friends with or associate with "a bunch or morons". I've had very intelligent, well thought-out conversations on Facebook before. Yes, a lot of people do say dumb s*** for "likes" or for a shock factor, but people are very passionate about this topic and truly believe that Paterno is just as much as fault for this as Sandusky is, and I bet you can find examples of people saying that on many different outlets, even apparently higher regarded sports forums.

 

Anyway, this thread is massive and too hard to keep track of, so I've said my peace and will await more news and information about this topic. As we can see by the page number, it's a huge hot button topic right now, I'm interested to find out more details.

[iamshack]

My point was that you shouldn't be such a dick to others about "take a logics class" and then fail a basic example.

 

You want to go through the premises one by one, I'm game.

 

 

 

Sure I can, if Paterno reports this to the police, I can safely assume he's going to jail, where he won't have access to children and PSU.

 

 

 

All of those people failing are necessary conditions. People are focusing on Paterno because some people are still defending him sitting in child fondling allegations for almost a decade, but everyone in this thread has expressed the opinion that PSU needs to "clean house" and I've personally said that Paterno is near the back of the line here.

It's not being a dick. Steve put a logical proof to me. Not the other way around. Just like when I try to make a scientific point to Balta and he pulls out his Geology textbook on me.

 

Why don't you finally answer how you know for sure that Paterno reporting anything to the police is going to result in Sandusky going to jail when the police heard Sandusky admit to molesting a child and the DA did not prosecute him?

 

Would you please answer this? I've asked you several times now.

[StrangeSox]

And you say that I am deflecting.

 

Do you deny that the police were aware of Sandusky's actions themselves, right from his own mouth, and did not prosecute him, and yet you expect me to believe Paterno is the one that should have done more?

 

Not "the" but "a", yes. Someone else's failings doesn't excuse your own.

 

Your email defense is pretty absurd. Clearly we're discussing the man's influence to get things done.

 

This is ridiculous. The end result of Joe doing what he was morally obligated to do actually occurred - the police were aware of Sandusky's actions. And yet he still continued his predatory activity. So what would it have mattered had Joe brought it to their attention? Now they would have known doubly as much?

 

We don't know why the police stopped short of charges in 1998. The police were not aware of the 2002 incident. Someone with the influence that Joe Paterno holds could have asked for an investigation. Even if you do everything you can and it's not enough, you at least tried. Instead, Joe does the bare minimum and lets others sweep it under the rug. That's unquestionable at this point, and it is indefensible.

[Steve9347]

You asked where the logical flaw in your conclusion was; unfortunately all your premises were inaccurate.

 

This nonsensical technical bulls*** that you and Balta always bring to the table is far more deserving of a smug emoticon than me telling Steve to take a logics class.

 

The point is that this is not a "but for" argument. You cannot say "But for" Joe Paterno's inaction, Sandusky would have been unable to rape children. You cannot say "But for" Joe Paterno failing to report this to the police, Sandusky would no longer been able to carry on his predatory activities.

 

That is simply not accurate. There are so many people that were in far greater positions to do something about this than Joe Paterno, and yet didn't, and yet you want to say if Paterno had done more, it would not have happened. That's just incredibly far from believable.

I want to know why logic is even being brought into a discussion about a man who did nothing to protect innocent 8-12 year old boys from being raped.

[Milkman delivers]

I ignore the mouth-breathers with uneducated opinions who don't stfu as their opinion means nothing to me. While this has been an endless argument at Soxtalk, it's also been an enjoyable and interesting debate involving posters who can pull together coherent thoughts and, mostly, look at the situation in an analytic nature.

 

They aren't people posting stupidity and hoping for "likes".

 

In a grim way, it has been interesting and I agree.

[Jenksismyhero]

My point was that you shouldn't be such a dick to others about "take a logics class" and then fail a basic example.

 

You want to go through the premises one by one, I'm game.

 

 

Sure I can, if Paterno reports this to the police, I can safely assume he's going to jail, where he won't have access to children and PSU.

 

 

 

All of those people failing are necessary conditions. People are focusing on Paterno because some people are still defending him sitting in child fondling allegations for almost a decade, but everyone in this thread has expressed the opinion that PSU needs to "clean house" and I've personally said that Paterno is near the back of the line here.

 

You've just heard a story about a major educational institution completely ignoring routine protocol as part of a blatant cover-up (including the campus police, which i'm sure has the same force and authority under the law as city, county or state police), and yet you're now going to assume that telling the cops will end in this guys arrest? You know the DA that was informed about this did absolutely nothing too right?

 

[Jenksismyhero]

And you say that I am deflecting.

 

Do you deny that the police were aware of Sandusky's actions themselves, right from his own mouth, and did not prosecute him, and yet you expect me to believe Paterno is the one that should have done more?

 

This is ridiculous. The end result of Joe doing what he was morally obligated to do actually occurred - the police were aware of Sandusky's actions. And yet he still continued his predatory activity. So what would it have mattered had Joe brought it to their attention? Now they would have known doubly as much?

 

Bingo.

[Kyyle23]

You've just heard a story about a major educational institution completely ignoring routine protocol as part of a blatant cover-up (including the campus police, which i'm sure has the same force and authority under the law as city, county or state police), and yet you're now going to assume that telling the cops will end in this guys arrest? You know the DA that was informed about this did absolutely nothing too right?

 

yep, and the DA that was following up on it ended up dead.

[StrangeSox]

Why don't you finally answer how you know for sure that Paterno reporting anything to the police is going to result in Sandusky going to jail when the police heard Sandusky admit to molesting a child and the DA did not prosecute him?

 

Would you please answer this? I've asked you several times now.

 

I have, and you've claimed that Paterno did not hold significant influence as PSU because he doesn't use email or facebook. If Paterno holds influence and he wants this investigated, then it will be investigated. Paterno holds influence, but he didn't want it investigated.

 

I'm also intentionally leaving out the possibility that PSU blocked the 1998 investigation because that is speculation right now, but it is a possibility.

[iamshack]

Therein lies the crux of the argument. I absolutely think action taken by Paterno could have ended all of the molesting at PSU.

First of all, please don't insert your own commentary into my posts when replying to them in this thread. It's all fun and games in the less serious threads, but please don't do it in this one.

 

Secondly, I'm not sure how you absolutely think anything in this mess. Reportedly, everyone in the entire administration, including the President of the University didn't do jack s*** about this guy being on campus, and around children while he was on campus. So how suddenly we can be absolutely sure Paterno asking that he be removed, when it was already pretty evident that Paterno wanted absolutely nothing to do with the guy already, would have accomplished much of anything in this cesspool of incompetence, I'm just not understanding.

[StrangeSox]

You've just heard a story about a major educational institution completely ignoring routine protocol as part of a blatant cover-up (including the campus police, which i'm sure has the same force and authority under the law as city, county or state police), and yet you're now going to assume that telling the cop*s will end in this guys arrest? You know the DA that was informed about this did absolutely nothing too right?

I'm going to assume that one of the most influential men at PSU telling the cops to investigate this negates a PSU cover-up.

 

Also, I'm not aware that the police were informed of the 2002 incident, but I may be wrong.

[Jenksismyhero]

yep, and the DA that was following up on it ended up dead.

 

And you know what happens in those cases? Other DA's pick up the file and resume the case. Yet no one did...

[Kyyle23]

First of all, please don't insert your own commentary into my posts when replying to them in this thread. It's all fun and games in the less serious threads, but please don't do it in this one.

 

Secondly, I'm not sure how you absolutely think anything in this mess. Reportedly, everyone in the entire administration, including the President of the University didn't do jack s*** about this guy being on campus, and around children while he was on campus. So how suddenly we can be absolutely sure Paterno asking that he be removed, when it was already pretty evident that Paterno wanted absolutely nothing to do with the guy already, would have accomplished much of anything in this cesspool of incompetence, I'm just not understanding.

 

Shack, i havent argued with you in this thread, but Sandusky was working out in the PSU facilities last week. he was bringing kids to the campus and spring practices as recently as 09. they absolutely did nothing.

 

 

And like I have maintained the entire thread, Paterno is the face of this mess, but there is a line of people who failed these children, and failed them horribly

[StrangeSox]

First of all, please don't insert your own commentary into my posts when replying to them in this thread. It's all fun and games in the less serious threads, but please don't do it in this one.

 

Secondly, I'm not sure how you absolutely think anything in this mess. Reportedly, everyone in the entire administration, including the President of the University didn't do jack s*** about this guy being on campus, and around children while he was on campus. So how suddenly we can be absolutely sure Paterno asking that he be removed, when it was already pretty evident that Paterno wanted absolutely nothing to do with the guy already, would have accomplished much of anything in this cesspool of incompetence, I'm just not understanding.

 

Because Paterno is immensely influence at PSU

[Jenksismyhero]

I'm going to assume that one of the most influential men at PSU telling the cops to investigate this negates a PSU cover-up.

 

Also, I'm not aware that the police were informed of the 2002 incident, but I may be wrong.

 

They were informed 4 years earlier about another incident. THEY could have ended it there, without any of Paterno's additional input. But the fact is, even when the cops are involved, and the DA has been notified (of the 2002 incident) NOTHING f***ING HAPPENED. So no, you cannot say with certainty that Paterno's notification to the police would have resulted any differently here.

 

Now, whether Paterno could have used other means to get this s*** out, that's another issue. And he certainly could have told Sandusky to get the f*** out even if the police/university didn't.

[Milkman delivers]

LMAO.

 

I threatened to force him to watch Blade Runner and the Transformer trilogy back to back for 3 nights straight

 

The Transformer movies don't really bother me. Blade Runner is excruciatingly boring, though.