Penn State horror story

[Milkman delivers]

@BreakingNewsBreaking News

 

NBC News reports Joe Paterno has hired a prominent Washington criminal defense lawyer to represent him in the Penn State sex abuse case

 

Sounds like he has good reason to believe he will be taken to court. I'd imagine that means he's a little more guilty than some would like to contend.

[iamshack]

Seriously, you cannot understand how it can be perceived as simply that? If a grown man showers in the same room as a child and a mother confronts the man afterwards about it, I think it's highly likely that the man would apologize and feel really bad about exposing a child to that. Granted, this is weirder because he bear hugged the kid, too, but an apology can easily be seen as him regretting a faux pas and not apologizing for the intent to rape the child.

Milk, come on. He said "I wish I was dead."

 

It was clear that he knew he was guilty of a heinous crime, and he vocalized that.

 

At the very least, the campus police should have reported this to the local and state authorities and they should have been interviewing all kinds of children and parents that were involved with this guy through charitable functions, etc. Had they done that, they would have had kids stepping forward, either to their parents, or to the authorities, and the guy would have been stopped.

[Milkman delivers]

But they should have been! It's called "policework."

 

Joe Paterno is not a police. His job does not include policework. He is a football coach.

 

Thus the difference in culpability.

 

How would they if they weren't told about the situation?

[Dick Allen]

But they should have been! It's called "policework."

 

Joe Paterno is not a police. His job does not include policework. He is a football coach.

 

Thus the difference in culpability.

Joe admits now he should have done more. I would love to hear his explanation as to why he didn't.

[iamshack]

Sounds like he has good reason to believe he will be taken to court. I'd imagine that means he's a little more guilty than some would like to contend.

Oh man. So now the fact that he's hired an attorney means he's guilty.

 

It's absolutely the most prudent thing to do.

[iamshack]

How would they if they weren't told about the situation?

So the police can't prosecute a crime unless someone comes to the police department and tells them about it?

 

Oh boy.

[Soxbadger]

Paterno is guilty because he hired a lawyer.

 

lol

 

If anything Paterno is a fool for not hiring a lawyer immediately. Not only guilty people hire attorneys.

[Milkman delivers]

Milk, come on. He said "I wish I was dead."

 

It was clear that he knew he was guilty of a heinous crime, and he vocalized that.

 

At the very least, the campus police should have reported this to the local and state authorities and they should have been interviewing all kinds of children and parents that were involved with this guy through charitable functions, etc. Had they done that, they would have had kids stepping forward, either to their parents, or to the authorities, and the guy would have been stopped.

 

You've never heard someone say "I wish I were dead" because they're so embarrassed at themselves? That could easily be construed as what he was saying to a person listening in.

 

And we don't know that the campus police didn't report this to the local or state authorities, or whether or not it would even seem necessary after such a seemingly (at the time) innocuous incident.

[Milkman delivers]

So the police can't prosecute a crime unless someone comes to the police department and tells them about it?

 

Oh boy.

 

HOW WOULD THEY KNOW ABOUT THE INCIDENT IN 2002 IF THE HIGHER UPS AT PSU DIDN'T INFORM THEM?

 

That's what I'm asking.

[Soxbadger]

The same way they actually found out about the crime, I assume with an investigation.

 

The real question is if Sandusky raped so many kids, how did the 1998 investigation come up completely empty?

[iamshack]

You've never heard someone say "I wish I were dead" because they're so embarrassed at themselves? That could easily be construed as what he was saying to a person listening in.

 

And we don't know that the campus police didn't report this to the local or state authorities, or whether or not it would even seem necessary after such a seemingly (at the time) innocuous incident.

I believe they did report it, which was why the DA knew of it.

 

The point is, the DA did not prosecute him.

 

Sometimes a case is not there, legally, for whatever reason. But there was plenty of evidence here for them to have continued to investigate. Seems as if they did thoroughly investigate it, they would have caught him fairly easily.

[iamshack]

HOW WOULD THEY KNOW ABOUT THE INCIDENT IN 2002 IF THE HIGHER UPS AT PSU DIDN'T INFORM THEM?

 

That's what I'm asking.

How many other incidents were there besides the 2002 incident? How many other victims were there, Milk? Could they have not done some detective work here? Could they have not interviewed some of the children he was in contact with?

 

Just because the incident in 2002 was not reported by PSU, does not mean that they couldn't have bothered to investigate the guy further, especially considering he was well known in the community to work with children.

 

How can you have such a low standard of responsibility for the police, who actually exist for this sort of thing, and such a high standard of responsibility for a football coach, who's job it was to win football games?

[Milkman delivers]

I believe they did report it, which was why the DA knew of it.

 

The point is, the DA did not prosecute him.

 

Sometimes a case is not there, legally, for whatever reason. But there was plenty of evidence here for them to have continued to investigate. Seems as if they did thoroughly investigate it, they would have caught him fairly easily.

 

The 1998 incident was reported, which is the shower bear hug. This whole thing seems to stem from the fact that the 2002 raping went unreported.

 

The DA did not prosecute the 1998 case for probably any number of the reasons I already put out there.

 

And how long would you expect an investigation to continue? They looked into it, heard his story admitting that he showered with the boy, and the DA probably decided that it was too weak. Do they follow Sandusky for the rest of his life? A few weeks? Maybe they followed him for a couple of months and he didn't rape a child in that span, so the case was dropped.

Edited November 11, 2011 by Milkman delivers

[Milkman delivers]

The same way they actually found out about the crime, I assume with an investigation.

 

The real question is if Sandusky raped so many kids, how did the 1998 investigation come up completely empty?

 

Because he didn't rape the kid they were investigating the incident for?

[iamshack]

The 1998 was reported, which is the shower bear hug. This whole things seems to stem from the fact that the 2002 raping went unreported.

 

The DA did not prosecute the 1998 case for probably any number of the reasons I already put out there.

 

And how long would you expect an investigation to continue? They looked into it, heard his story admitting that he showered with the boy, and the DA probably decided that it was too weak. Do they follow Sandusky for the rest of his life? A few weeks? Maybe they followed him for a couple of months and he didn't rape a child in that span, so the case was dropped.

Again, such a low standard for the police, and yet this is exactly what you expect the football coach to do...

[Milkman delivers]

How many other incidents were there besides the 2002 incident? How many other victims were there, Milk? Could they have not done some detective work here? Could they have not interviewed some of the children he was in contact with?

 

Just because the incident in 2002 was not reported by PSU, does not mean that they couldn't have bothered to investigate the guy further, especially considering he was well known in the community to work with children.

 

How can you have such a low standard of responsibility for the police, who actually exist for this sort of thing, and such a high standard of responsibility for a football coach, who's job it was to win football games?

 

First of all, I hardly think "calling the police" or "ensuring that the police are called" is a very high standard to hold anyone to.

 

Now, back to the investigation. They seemingly found out that the initial child that brought suspicion was not raped. According to the Grand Jury report (which I'm still not sure you've read), he had plenty of children under his care at various times. It is quite possible that they interviewed other children and he happened not to have molested those ones. It seems that he would pick a child from each generation of the charity's members and molest that child, with some occasional overlap. So, perhaps this was his prey for that current time and therefore none of the other children had anything to tell them. And then let's remember that many children don't come forward with their allegations.

 

And to drive this point home again, they did not find out that he raped the child in 1998. He never did. So why would they have this incredibly in-depth investigation when it was already decided that nothing happened here?

[Milkman delivers]

Again, such a low standard for the police, and yet this is exactly what you expect the football coach to do...

 

Are you admitting that they may have kept tabs on him for a little while after the initial investigation? If they did this and he kept clean for that period of time, there would be no cause to continue to do so.

 

Do you want them to have a Big Brother system constantly watching him? Perhaps the technology they used in Minority Report?

[iamshack]

First of all, I hardly think "calling the police" or "ensuring that the police are called" is a very high standard to hold anyone to.

 

Now, back to the investigation. They seemingly found out that the initial child that brought suspicion was not raped. According to the Grand Jury report (which I'm still not sure you've read), he had plenty of children under his care at various times. It is quite possible that they interviewed other children and he happened not to have molested those ones. It seems that he would pick a child from each generation of the charity's members and molest that child, with some occasional overlap. So, perhaps this was his prey for that current time and therefore none of the other children had anything to tell them. And then let's remember that many children don't come forward with their allegations.

 

And to drive this point home again, they did not find out that he raped the child in 1998. He never did. So why would they have this incredibly in-depth investigation when it was already decided that nothing happened here?

Milk, I don't deny the entire thing is one big clusterf*** of failings on the part of multiple people within multiple different organizations, including the football program, the University, the campus police, the local police, the DA, the charity, and on and on and on.

 

I guess I just don't find Paterno to be particularly high up on that list, considering the circumstances.

 

Everyone can disagree with me as much as they want. I really don't have the time, nor the strength to argue about it anymore. I've already wasted the entire day.

 

 

[Milkman delivers]

Milk, I don't deny the entire thing is one big clusterf*** of failings on the part of multiple people within multiple different organizations, including the football program, the University, the campus police, the local police, the DA, the charity, and on and on and on.

 

I guess I just don't find Paterno to be particularly high up on that list, considering the circumstances.

 

Everyone can disagree with me as much as they want. I really don't have the time, nor the strength to argue about it anymore. I've already wasted the entire day.

 

I've wasted two days on this

 

I agree that Paterno isn't at the top of the list, but he's on there. The VP or whatever under whose auspices the police fall is higher up there, but I don't think the police can be to blame from what we know so far. Police can do their jobs to perfection and still not have enough for a case, and I see how that can easily be the case for the 1998 incident. They had something, but not anything strong enough to take it to court or at least to get the DA to allow it to get to court. They had an incident where a man admitted that he showered in an open locker shower and bear hugged a child. It's weird, but I seriously doubt it was enough to take to court, especially since the child said that nothing else happened, the man apologized for it, his reputation, etc. And if they continued to keep tabs on him, he very easily could have just waited long enough between molestations that the cops had no choice but to give up the investigation.

Edited November 11, 2011 by Milkman delivers

[iamshack]

I've wasted two days on this

 

I agree that Paterno isn't at the top of the list, but he's on there. The VP or whatever under whose auspices the police fall is higher up there, but I don't think the police can be to blame from what we know so far. Police can do their jobs to perfection and still not have enough for a case, and I see how that can easily be the case for the 1998 incident. They had something, but not anything strong enough to take it to court or at least to get the DA to allow to get to court. They had an incident where a man admitted that he showered in an open locker shower and bear hugged a child. It's weird, but I seriously doubt it was enough to take to court, especially since the child said that nothing else happened, the man apologized for it, his reputation, etc. And if they continued to keep tabs on him, he very easily could have just waited long enough between molestations that the cops had no choice but to give up the investigation.

Fair enough.

[Milkman delivers]

Fair enough.

 

 

And I hope you got the PM I sent earlier.

[Kid Gleason]

Has anybody brought up the fact that in the role that Joe Paterno was in, coach (teacher?), that he would have been a mandated reporter? His duty was much more than just telling his bosses. His duty was to report this to the proper authorities, which involves calling the proper phone numbers. Good ol JoePa(thetic) dropped the ball on what his profession required him to do. He is just one gigantic dolt.

[Balta1701]

Has anybody brought up the fact that in the role that Joe Paterno was in, coach (teacher?), that he would have been a mandated reporter? His duty was much more than just telling his bosses. His duty was to report this to the proper authorities, which involves calling the proper phone numbers. Good ol JoePa(thetic) dropped the ball on what his profession required him to do. He is just one gigantic dolt.

If his legal responsibility was more than telling his supervisor, he'd already be facing charges.

[Kid Gleason]

He did just hire some high power guy, so we might wait and see what happens. I'm betting the old twit goes down something fierce.

[Balta1701]

He did just hire some high power guy, so we might wait and see what happens. I'm betting the old twit goes down something fierce.

If you took shacks pov, he could be prepping to sue penn state for wrongful termination.