Penn State horror story

[Steve9347]

If you took shacks pov, he could be prepping to sue penn state for wrongful termination.

That wouldn't require a defense lawyer.

 

However, he'd be a complete buffoon to NOT be hiring a lawyer. That doesn't mean he did anything illegal. However, we all know he f***ed up. Barry Switzer said it best and supported many views here:

 

“Having been in this profession a long time and knowing how close coaching staffs are, I knew that this was a secret that was kept secret,” Switzer said. “Everyone on that staff had to have known, the ones that had been around a long time.”

 

Those are chilling words. They are the most disturbing missives, not in a week filled with heinous reports and atrocious news, but read again what Switzer said. Everyone had to have known.

 

Everyone.

 

If that doesn't cause a chill to run up your spin, nothing will.

 

“You think that a 13-year assistant … hasn't told someone else?” Switzer said. “His wife? His father? People knew. The community knew.”

 

He's right, of course. State College is like many college towns, big enough to have the diversity of a larger city but small enough to have the familiarity of a tinier town. It is an idyllic setting for many folks.

 

But everybody tends to know everybody's business.

 

http://newsok.com/penn-state-tragedy-barry...dline_ou-sports

[StrangeSox]

Milk, I don't deny the entire thing is one big clusterf*** of failings on the part of multiple people within multiple different organizations, including the football program, the University, the campus police, the local police, the DA, the charity, and on and on and on.

 

I guess I just don't find Paterno to be particularly high up on that list, considering the circumstances.

 

Everyone can disagree with me as much as they want. I really don't have the time, nor the strength to argue about it anymore. I've already wasted the entire day.

How many times have I said this exact thing to you?

[The Sir]

Has anybody brought up the fact that in the role that Joe Paterno was in, coach (teacher?), that he would have been a mandated reporter? His duty was much more than just telling his bosses. His duty was to report this to the proper authorities, which involves calling the proper phone numbers. Good ol JoePa(thetic) dropped the ball on what his profession required him to do. He is just one gigantic dolt.

 

It's so nice of you to remember who the actual pedophile and monster is.

[Soxbadger]

So it seems the Pennsylvania State's Attorney is asking similar questions as some of us in this thread:

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/colle...00.story?page=2

 

A spokesman for the state attorney general's office is questioning why Curley, who has taken a leave of absence, remains on the Penn State payroll.

 

"We find it extremely interesting that a senior administration staff who has been charged with a crime remains on the Penn State payroll, while an employee [Paterno] who is a cooperating witness has been terminated," said attorney general spokesman Nils Frederiksen. "That causes us reason for concern."

 

Probably just all us lawyers taking the wrong side (even though they are the Prosecutors).

[southsider2k5]

That wouldn't require a defense lawyer.

 

However, he'd be a complete buffoon to NOT be hiring a lawyer. That doesn't mean he did anything illegal. However, we all know he f***ed up. Barry Switzer said it best and supported many views here:

 

 

 

http://newsok.com/penn-state-tragedy-barry...dline_ou-sports

 

So what is Barry saying he had his staff cover up exactly? That is an odd statement.

[Milkman delivers]

So it seems the Pennsylvania State's Attorney is asking similar questions as some of us in this thread:

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/colle...00.story?page=2

 

 

 

Probably just all us lawyers taking the wrong side (even though they are the Prosecutors).

 

What are you talking about there? All of us here were under the impression that everyone involved had been fired. I would imagine that everyone also just assumed that they were not receiving paychecks still.

[Soxbadger]

I think your missing the part where they call Paterno a cooperating witness, implying that he has done nothing but help them.

 

Kind of destroys the whole "Paterno covered things up" argument, the basic implication is that PSU is scapegoating Paterno, ie firing someone who has done nothing but try and help, whereas protect someone who blatantly lied and tried to cover things up.

 

Just interesting comments from the people who actually know the testimony, as opposed to the rest of us who merely are speculating as to what the actual testimony was.

[Milkman delivers]

People have said the entire time that Paterno will have no problem with the law because he did the legal minimum.

 

Also, can't a cooperating witness be someone who had done something illegal but is testifying against his cohorts for some kind of legal break? I'm not saying that's the case, just putting it out there.

[Soxbadger]

They could refer to a flipper witness that way, but I think they were more tying to show that Paterno is helping the Prosecution to bring these people to justice, and he gets fired, meanwhile another guy who lied, is still on the payroll.

 

Something does not add up.

[Milkman delivers]

The part about the guy still on the payroll IS strange, and it needs to be both explained and fixed. And let's be honest, if Paterno fulfilled his legal obligation (which he did) and has plausible deniability to any cover up, he'd be a fool not to work with the investigation. This is especially true given his public image in the aftermath of this thing, and being fired may also fuel his desire.

Edited November 11, 2011 by Milkman delivers

[G&T]

They could refer to a flipper witness that way, but I think they were more tying to show that Paterno is helping the Prosecution to bring these people to justice, and he gets fired, meanwhile another guy who lied, is still on the payroll.

 

Something does not add up.

 

I don't think I've ever seen the term "cooperating witness" used where the witness was not suspected to be involved in the wrong doing. Otherwise he would have been called a witness. Or he would have come out and said Paterno was not under suspicion.

[Texsox]

Just to drive this home tex, if one of your scout masters told you they saw a boy get raped, and you told your superiors, then continued to see that man around business as usual for years, and then a scandal hit showing that he was continuing to rape boys...

 

people may ask that you no longer hold that duty. And in that scenario, you didn't get raped, you aren't going to jail, you just lost your job. Poor you. You are clearly the biggest victim here.

 

Joe Paterno was the most powerful man in Happy Valley. Without a doubt. Within his football administration was a man serially raping young boys in large numbers, none yet completely known. At some point, he was told about this. No criminal charges were ever filed against this man. The public gets notified. He loses his job. The serial rapist being around is the problem here. All those that knew are tainted. You can't move on without removing that stain. Hopefully, those victims can. But no, I don't care that poor Joe Paterno has to retire comfortably in his old age. He is not the victim here.

 

Good point. And just to drive this home, if you saw a boy get raped and you didn't call police, you just told someone else, then find out the man continued rape boys, will you say, hey I told "the most powerful man in Happy Valley", don't blame me?

 

And Joe isn't the biggest victim, that is a disgusting statement to make and blatantly unfair to even insinuate that I would believe that. What I have said is Paterno is being portrayed as the second biggest villain here, the written wrath against Paterno exceeds that of Sandusky. I see Paterno's responsibility behind that of the GA, the AD, and the university president. Right next to the dad. As I read additional reports from prior to 2002, I am agreeing with his removal. But I really wish the wrath that is being placed on Paterno was instead placed on the eye f***ing witness who did not call police.

[LittleHurt05]

McQueary still has a job with PSU but will not coach this weekend due to multiple threats he has received. I wonder if the threats are from people upset he didn't stop the rape in the shower or just PSU fans blaming him for costing JoePa his job?

[Jenksismyhero]

Good point. And just to drive this home, if you saw a boy get raped and you didn't call police, you just told someone else, then find out the man continued rape boys, will you say, hey I told "the most powerful man in Happy Valley", don't blame me?

 

And Joe isn't the biggest victim, that is a disgusting statement to make and blatantly unfair to even insinuate that I would believe that. What I have said is Paterno is being portrayed as the second biggest villain here, the written wrath against Paterno exceeds that of Sandusky. I see Paterno's responsibility behind that of the GA, the AD, and the university president. Right next to the dad. As I read additional reports from prior to 2002, I am agreeing with his removal. But I really wish the wrath that is being placed on Paterno was instead placed on the eye f***ing witness who did not call police.

 

Amen.

 

And reading the posts from when I left last night, people are still ASSUMING as fact that Paterno was told of the rape. Yes, that's what McQueary said, but Paterno denied that he said anything specific. And quite frankly, that's not surprising. It's entirely reasonable that McQueary was disgusted with what he saw, and instead of repeating, in detail, what happened, he just said "Sandusky was doing something inappropriate with a kid."

 

I don't understand why if that's the case (and it might not be, I realize this) why was it not enough for Paterno to tell his superiors and have McQueary work with his superiors? Maybe it becomes like the 1998 incident, where it's incredibly inappropriate, but not to the level of criminal (and yes, I know Paterno admitted to hearing about fondling, but maybe the AD and VP told him, no no, McQueary was wrong, he was mistaken). I mean who the f*** knows, and that's the point. If Paterno is getting lied to and told everything is ok, nothing criminal happened, why should Paterno be expected to continue to follow up? For all we know Paterno followed up with McQueary, who also lied about it to him (After all, despite knowing what he saw, and despite knowing what kind of lame punishment Sandusky got, HE NEVER REPORTED ANYTHING TO ANYONE AGAIN).

 

Iamshack repeated this point approx 7000 times - why the f*** can we not wait to hear the full story before going apes*** over this?

 

[Balta1701]

why the f*** can we not wait to hear the full story before going apes*** over this?

From this point on, I'm happy to let that happen. The changes that needed to be made immediately have been made.

[StrangeSox]

I don't understand why if that's the case (and it might not be, I realize this) why was it not enough for Paterno to tell his superiors and have McQueary work with his superiors? Maybe it becomes like the 1998 incident, where it's incredibly inappropriate, but not to the level of criminal (and yes, I know Paterno admitted to hearing about fondling, but maybe the AD and VP told him, no no, McQueary was wrong, he was mistaken). I mean who the f*** knows, and that's the point. If Paterno is getting lied to and told everything is ok, nothing criminal happened, why should Paterno be expected to continue to follow up? For all we know Paterno followed up with McQueary, who also lied about it to him (After all, despite knowing what he saw, and despite knowing what kind of lame punishment Sandusky got, HE NEVER REPORTED ANYTHING TO ANYONE AGAIN).

 

The problem I have with this is that it doesn't add up. Why would Paterno keep someone whom who believed falsely accused a friend of child molestation on the staff?

[clyons]

That wouldn't require a defense lawyer.

 

However, he'd be a complete buffoon to NOT be hiring a lawyer. That doesn't mean he did anything illegal. However, we all know he f***ed up. Barry Switzer said it best and supported many views here:

 

 

 

http://newsok.com/penn-state-tragedy-barry...dline_ou-sports

 

I don't think those words have ever been strung together before, but 'ol Barry makes an excellent point.

[Jenksismyhero]

The problem I have with this is that it doesn't add up. Why would Paterno keep someone whom who believed falsely accused a friend of child molestation on the staff?

 

Well, that's a fair point, but again he's the football coach, not J. Edgar Hoover. Fact is right now we just don't know. And I find that it's bulls*** that he got run out of town and basically pegged as equally terrible as Sandusky BEFORE even hearing his explanation. All indications are that he wanted to come out and talk about it, but that the school wouldn't let him. Maybe in the next week or two he will, but what's the point now, he's lost his job. Simply from the sake of moving on from this tragedy Penn State had to clean house. I get that (though it's f***ed that they keep the GA). But I don't understand why having Paterno "coach" 3 more games would have ended the world.

 

 

[Kyyle23]

Well, that's a fair point, but again he's the football coach, not J. Edgar Hoover. Fact is right now we just don't know. And I find that it's bulls*** that he got run out of town and basically pegged as equally terrible as Sandusky BEFORE even hearing his explanation. All indications are that he wanted to come out and talk about it, but that the school wouldn't let him. Maybe in the next week or two he will, but what's the point now, he's lost his job. Simply from the sake of moving on from this tragedy Penn State had to clean house. I get that (though it's f***ed that they keep the GA). But I don't understand why having Paterno "coach" 3 more games would have ended the world.

 

It wouldnt have ended the world. But if these allegations all end up being true, and the last image of JoePa is one of him being carried off the field with everyone cheering him on, The University would look even worse than they do right now. The right thing was to clean house, and I really dont think Curley and McQueary are going to be recieving PSU checks for very much longer, and let the investigation take its course and let the university and football team start to rebuild themselves.

[RockRaines]

It wouldnt have ended the world. But if these allegations all end up being true, and the last image of JoePa is one of him being carried off the field with everyone cheering him on, The University would look even worse than they do right now. The right thing was to clean house, and I really dont think Curley and McQueary are going to be recieving PSU checks for very much longer, and let the investigation take its course and let the university and football team start to rebuild themselves.

They've already started to lose advertisers for the rest of the season.

[Balta1701]

It wouldnt have ended the world. But if these allegations all end up being true, and the last image of JoePa is one of him being carried off the field with everyone cheering him on, The University would look even worse than they do right now. The right thing was to clean house, and I really dont think Curley and McQueary are going to be recieving PSU checks for very much longer, and let the investigation take its course and let the university and football team start to rebuild themselves.

Hell, "Beat Nebraska" and the rally earlier int he week looked bad enough.

[RockRaines]

My question is are we going to find out that the entire staff knew including Tom Bradley, and what is keeping him on going to do for their image.

[iamshack]

How many times have I said this exact thing to you?

SS, if you'll notice, I wasn't really trying to argue with you about your point of view...it seemed like you were replying to my posts to others...

 

Either way, it's just viewing culpability differently I guess, or having different levels of outrage about Paterno's culpability.

 

I just found it odd that for years and years, people have been joking about Paterno's senility in regards to running his football team, and now suddenly, all those opinions have vanished, and Paterno is now the equivalent of Alexander the Great on the Penn State campus. I've never particularly cared for Paterno, and I've thought he should have been gone a decade ago. The way this was handled by him (or how we are speculating he handled it) is probably just one more manifestation of why he should have been gone a decade ago.

[Balta1701]

My question is are we going to find out that the entire staff knew including Tom Bradley, and what is keeping him on going to do for their image.

Unless there's involvement on his part from the grand jury report that I have missed, I don't think keeping him on at this point is that big of a mistake. Someone tell me if I missed something, but I haven't seen indications that he was directly informed of the actions in 2002. He might well have been, and if so, PSU ought to take that into account in their upcoming coaching search, and he probably ought to lawyer up.

[iamshack]

It wouldnt have ended the world. But if these allegations all end up being true, and the last image of JoePa is one of him being carried off the field with everyone cheering him on, The University would look even worse than they do right now. The right thing was to clean house, and I really dont think Curley and McQueary are going to be recieving PSU checks for very much longer, and let the investigation take its course and let the university and football team start to rebuild themselves.

I agree...this is one of the reasons that I think Paterno had to be fired, regardless of whether one places much of the blame on him or not.

 

This entire thing is one sick mess. You can't seem flippant about it by juxtaposing these grisly and horrible details next to some last big celebration and sendoff for Paterno. It just can't happen that way.