Penn State horror story

[MexSoxFan#1]

and that should do it, screw you Paterno

[danman31]

Glad to see I wasn't the only one watching this game just to root against Penn State.

[MexSoxFan#1]

Hopefully this loss drops PSU 25 spots in the rankings.

[Milkman delivers]

That was probably the first and last time most of the country was rooting for Nebraska.

[Rowand44]

Everyone on that Penn State campus deserved this loss.

[Texsox]

Come on, Tex.

I'm not saying kill the program for good.

 

But this thing is a mess. I'm saying IF it turns out that this has been some massive conspiracy where a pedophile has been allowed to use the football program as a vehicle to molest children, with the knowledge of the coaching staff, the AD, the President, etc., then the program needs to be shut down indefinitely, until it can be absolutely assured that everyone that had any knowledge or involvement with this has been weeded out and discarded.

 

I don't care if every other sport at the University has to shut down for a year.

 

No sporting event, no team, no athlete, no fan, no revenue stream is worth risking that anything like this can ever happen again at Penn State University or any other university, for that matter.

 

And I believe punishing hundreds or thousands of innocent people is wrong. It will not help the victims, only create more. You kill the program for a couple years and you will kill the program for much, much longer. Plus do irreparable harm to innocent people. I want all the guilty people punished, so far we're talking four or five at Penn State, but not the innocent.

[Texsox]

That would basically ruin all the class that was shown today before the game.

Amen. I'm glad they lost.

[Milkman delivers]

And I believe punishing hundreds or thousands of innocent people is wrong. It will not help the victims, only create more. You kill the program for a couple years and you will kill the program for much, much longer. Plus do irreparable harm to innocent people. I want all the guilty people punished, but not the innocent.

 

And if a large number of people from the football program are guilty, that would all but necessitate the program being shut down for a while to replace all of them.

[Texsox]

And if a large number of people from the football program are guilty, that would all but necessitate the program being shut down for a while to replace all of them.

 

Agreed. Although I don't think it would take a year to replace a coaching staff. All my comments are based on what we know today. I am trying to learn from the Duke lacrosse case. Many were screaming to close down their program.

[Milkman delivers]

Agreed. Although I don't think it would take a year to replace a coaching staff. All my comments are based on what we know today. I am trying to learn from the Duke lacrosse case. Many were screaming to close down their program.

 

That's quite the difference. As I know it, the Duke lacrosse thing stemmed from a hooker lying. In this one, children were raped and the guy responsible was on the PSU campus as recently as last week and possibly still recruiting for the school this year.

 

And I would think it'd take at least a year to set up an entirely new coaching staff and "front office", for lack of a better term.

Edited November 12, 2011 by Milkman delivers

[Balta1701]

Agreed. Although I don't think it would take a year to replace a coaching staff. All my comments are based on what we know today. I am trying to learn from the Duke lacrosse case. Many were screaming to close down their program.

It wouldn't just be a coaching staff here, I believe that the university leadership and full athletic department already have people facing charges. Might well wind up having to replace trustees for all we know.

 

That's a lot more work than just replacing a coaching staff...if the people who have to replace the people who have to replace the coaching staff also get fired...

[Balta1701]

Everyone on that Penn State campus deserved this loss.

"Beat nebraska!"

[danman31]

And I would think it'd take at least a year to set up an entirely new coaching staff and "front office", for lack of a better term.

That depends. If Penn State had to literally start from scratch they would certainly have a hard time making good hires, but they would do whatever possible to not shut down the program for a year. There would be plenty of people that would love jobs on Penn State's coaching staff. They could make hires quickly, but they wouldn't all be good ones. The first year would be rough with a lack of recruiting and all new coaches, but unless the NCAA tells them they can't play for a year (which would be unprecedented) that's never going to happen.

[Texsox]

That's quite the difference. As I know it, the Duke lacrosse thing stemmed from a hooker lying. In this one, children were raped and the guy responsible was on the PSU campus as recently as last week and possibly still recruiting for the school this year.

 

And I would think it'd take at least a year to set up an entirely new coaching staff and "front office", for lack of a better term.

 

Teams replace coaching staffs all the time and do not take a year off. Universities replace Presidents frequently and keep operating.

 

I'm not suggesting that a crime did not occur, this does seem pretty damn slam dunk. But these are poor kids and you know how poor people will make up anything for money, just read the Cain thread.

I believe there needs to be a full investigation and all the guilty people punished. Rushing to punish, which is much different than rushing to protect, leads to mistakes.

[Milkman delivers]

I honestly hope the NCAA finds a reason to ban them for a season.

[iamshack]

Teams replace coaching staffs all the time and do not take a year off. Universities replace Presidents frequently and keep operating.

 

I'm not suggesting that a crime did not occur, this does seem pretty damn slam dunk. But these are poor kids and you know how poor people will make up anything for money, just read the Cain thread.

I believe there needs to be a full investigation and all the guilty people punished. Rushing to punish, which is much different than rushing to protect, leads to mistakes.

No one is saying anything has to be rushed. Throughout the entire thread I have been pushing for people to reserve judgment until more of the facts are known. But when you start having recruits come forward saying Sandusky was at their spring game last year, that implicates the entire program in a much darker cloud than had previously been the case. I'm still in favor of letting the facts sort themselves out, but it's getting more and more apparent that this could be one slimy, sick mess.

 

Finish the games this year, for all I care. Then suspend the program and do a full-scale investigation, collect the facts, make a measured determination of what needs to be done to make sure this never happens again, that it could never happen again, and then you implement it. One would assume it wouldn't happen so quickly as to not miss a beat, but who knows...It's not a matter of punishment, Tex. It's a matter of responsibility.

[Balta1701]

No one is saying anything has to be rushed.

The one thing that needed to be rushed was getting the guys involved in this case out of decision-making positions immediately. That has at least partially happened (until accusations start hitting the Penn State Trustees and other local agencies).

[Milkman delivers]

No one is saying anything has to be rushed. Throughout the entire thread I have been pushing for people to reserve judgment until more of the facts are known. But when you start having recruits come forward saying Sandusky was at their spring game last year, that implicates the entire program in a much darker cloud than had previously been the case. I'm still in favor of letting the facts sort themselves out, but it's getting more and more apparent that this could be one slimy, sick mess.

 

Finish the games this year, for all I care. Then suspend the program and do a full-scale investigation, collect the facts, make a measured determination of what needs to be done to make sure this never happens again, that it could never happen again, and then you implement it. One would assume it wouldn't happen so quickly as to not miss a beat, but who knows...It's not a matter of punishment, Tex. It's a matter of responsibility.

 

That would be a fine way to go about it.

[Texsox]

It's not a matter of punishment, Tex. It's a matter of responsibility.

 

The first responsibility is to be certain no further abuse is happening. I believe that has happened. The victims are not Penn State students. Shutting down the program would not prevent one of the employees from further abusing a kid. Unless I missed something, it seems like the most attention should be on the foundation, not Penn State, to prevent further abuse. This was a former employee using a facility. Is it really much different than shutting down a hotel he might have used? Or did I miss how he was accessing 10 year-olds through a University? Now if new evidence uncovers additional abusers at the university, then they need to be prosecuted. I just do not see how firing secretaries, trainers, media liaisons, travel secretaries, ticket agents, grounds crew, all who had nothing to do with this will help anyone.

[Texsox]

BTW, based on what I have read so far and believing that at least 5 employees are involved, I would be in favor of no bowl games for five years, reductions in the number of scholarships, substantial payments to the victims and to child abuse prevention organizations.

[Milkman delivers]

The first responsibility is to be certain no further abuse is happening. I believe that has happened. The victims are not Penn State students. Shutting down the program would not prevent one of the employees from further abusing a kid. Unless I missed something, it seems like the most attention should be on the foundation, not Penn State, to prevent further abuse. This was a former employee using a facility. Is it really much different than shutting down a hotel he might have used? Or did I miss how he was accessing 10 year-olds through a University? Now if new evidence uncovers additional abusers at the university, then they need to be prosecuted. I just do not see how firing secretaries, trainers, media liaisons, travel secretaries, ticket agents, grounds crew, all who had nothing to do with this will help anyone.

 

Who the f*** is saying to do that? It's being talked about firing the people who actively took part in keeping this a secret, not the guy who paints the end zone that never heard any of this.

 

BTW, based on what I have read so far and believing that at least 5 employees are involved, I would be in favor of no bowl games for five years, reductions in the number of scholarships, substantial payments to the victims and to child abuse prevention organizations.

 

Wouldn't that be hurting the students who would have gotten those scholarships by making them pay a greater portion of their education even though they had no part of it?

Edited November 13, 2011 by Milkman delivers

[Balta1701]

Wouldn't that be hurting the students who would have gotten those scholarships by making them pay a greater portion of their education even though they had no part of it?

Not if they allow the players to leave without losing a year.

[iamshack]

The first responsibility is to be certain no further abuse is happening. I believe that has happened. The victims are not Penn State students. Shutting down the program would not prevent one of the employees from further abusing a kid. Unless I missed something, it seems like the most attention should be on the foundation, not Penn State, to prevent further abuse. This was a former employee using a facility. Is it really much different than shutting down a hotel he might have used? Or did I miss how he was accessing 10 year-olds through a University? Now if new evidence uncovers additional abusers at the university, then they need to be prosecuted. I just do not see how firing secretaries, trainers, media liaisons, travel secretaries, ticket agents, grounds crew, all who had nothing to do with this will help anyone.

I'm not sure we can be sure none of them had anything to do with any of this. This recruiting issue has opened up an even bigger Pandora's Box in regards to just how many people were involved in this and I don't know how you can determine who had what to do with what without the investigation I mentioned.

 

I'm sorry Tex, but child rape sort of trumps economics and sports as far as I am concerned. Until there is not a SLIVER OF DOUBT remaining that this can never happen again, do you start worrying about the jobs held by the media liasons and the ticket agents.

 

I'm not sure how you can ascertain that without doing a full-scale investigation and corresponding house-cleaning first. Tough luck.

[Balta1701]

There's nothing in this article I can cut out.

No one said no to Jerry Sandusky.

 

That's the underlying message from those closest to the alleged victims in the child-molestation scandal that has engulfed Pennsylvania State University.

 

After all, Jerry Sandusky, once the heir apparent to legendary football coach Joe Paterno, had been an assistant football coach at Penn State, a longtime community volunteer, and the founder of a well-known charity to help troubled youth.

 

Last Saturday, after a multiyear grand jury investigation, Sandusky was arrested on charges of sex abuse of eight minors from 1994 to 2009.

 

His attorney says he is not guilty.

 

"[My son] is really, really afraid of Jerry," one mother told the Harrisburg Patriot-News. "He told me numerous times when he started backing away from him, you just can't tell him no. I said, Why not?"

 

Her son told her, "You just don't do that."

 

Little is known about the alleged victims beyond the graphic details laid out in a grand jury report Nov. 4.

 

But in interviews, all anonymous, relatives of some of them describe Sandusky as a man who seemed to have carte blanche access to the youths - even pulling them out of high school study halls to meet him.

 

The mother of a young man known as Victim One said her son began to have troubles in high school.

 

"I went to the school counselors and . . . basically . . . they said it was a puberty thing," she said in an interview with Good Morning America. On TV, her face was hidden and her voice altered.

 

The mother said she might have been content to accept that explanation, except her son came home and wanted her help in looking up "sex weirdos" on the Internet.

 

"He wanted to see if Jerry was on there," she said, adding that her son said, "He's a weirdo." But the son would say no more.

 

"I called the school and expressed my concern."

 

She asked guidance counselors to talk to him, and the next thing she knew they called her to come to the school immediately. "At that point I already had suspicions."

 

The grand jury report lays out a scenario in which Sandusky was able to summon Victim One from class, and no one said no because Sandusky assisted the high school with coaching varsity football and could come and go there as he pleased.

 

That access didn't change, even when a wrestling coach discovered Sandusky and Victim One lying face to face in an unused part of the high school gym one evening, the report said.

 

"I didn't even know he was leaving the school with my child," the mother said. "I didn't know he was taking him out of classes. They never told me that."

 

Victim One's mother told the Patriot-News that officials at Central Mountain High School urged her to think twice about how she wanted to handle the situation, "how that would impact my son," she said.

 

She didn't think twice - she went immediately to the county's children and youth services agency and reported the situation. By that time, her son had been spending nights and weekends at Sandusky's home for more than a year.

 

Between January 2008 and July 2009, Sandusky called Victim One 118 times, the report said.

 

Victim One became the first person to say no to Sandusky. "He's a brave kid," his mother told the Patriot-News. "And his major concern in the whole thing was for anybody else. He said, 'I just don't want this to happen to anybody else.' "

 

Another mother tried to say no, but it didn't work.

 

In May 1998, her son, described by the grand jury as Victim Six, came home with wet hair. He had been on a tour of Penn State's locker rooms. As part of the tour, the boy, then 11, and another 11-year-old boy shared a shower with Sandusky, she said.

 

Her child told her, "If you're wondering why my hair is wet, we took a shower together," and ran into his room, the mother told the Patriot-News.

 

She immediately called the police.

 

"Jerry Sandusky admitted to my face, he admitted it," she told the Patriot-News. "He admitted that he lathered up my son, they were naked and he bear-hugged him. If they would have done something about it in 1998 and then again 2002 - there were two chances they dropped the ball."

 

But police didn't press charges.

 

The mother said she felt particularly betrayed that assistant Penn State coach Mike McQueary, who was placed on administrative leave Friday, didn't rescue a young boy allegedly being raped in a Penn State locker-room shower in 2002.

 

"I don't have words to talk about the betrayal I feel," she said in the interview.

 

Meanwhile, the sister of one of the alleged victims - it's not clear which one - is trying to get through classes as a junior at Penn State's main campus, where students rioted in defense of Paterno.

 

"I've been going to minimal classes, because every class I go to I get sick to my stomach," the student told the Patriot-News. "People are making jokes about it. I understand they don't know I'm involved and it was my brother, but it's still really hard to swallow that."

 

Some students joke about being "Sanduskied," but the sister is not laughing.

 

"I've just been really upset about it because a lot of people aren't focusing on the victims in this," she said. "And instead, they're focusing on other things, like football."

[Balta1701]

As for McQueary, the current attorney general had clearly decided that he was to be treated as a witness in the case, Gov. Tom Corbett said on NBC's "Meet the Press."

 

McQueary met "the minimum obligation" of reporting what he saw to his superiors, who are required under Pennsylvania law to report such assaults to authorities. But McQueary "did not in my opinion meet a moral obligation that all of us would have," said the governor, who as attorney general initiated the investigation that led to the charges.

 

Corbett also said people have to keep in mind "that this is also somebody who is a witness to this crime and is a very important witness."

 

State lawmakers from both parties have proposed changes to toughen the law that governs the reporting of sex assaults, Corbett added. He said he would not be surprised to see it strengthened this year.

 

"We have to make sure the change in the law is one that is effective," he said.

 

Corbett said he expects more allegations of abuse to materialize, a common occurrence in abuse cases.

 

"When the word gets out, when people understand that authorities are actually doing something about this, that they may be believed, then more people come forward," Corbett said.

 

Authorities have asked for victims to contact them.

 

Sandusky encountered all the boys through a charity he founded to help at-risk children, Second Mile, prosecutors have said. Leaders of the organization plan to meet soon to determine its future, Corbett said.

 

"If you talk to people who have worked with Second Mile, it has done great work," he said. "And if it should cease to exist, I am hopeful that other organizations will pick up the work that they did. We need to reach out to these children. We need to give them guidance."

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