Penn State horror story

[RockRaines]

Because reporting laws generally rely on the head of an organization to report these allegations to the police. Where is the outrage over the grad student not reporting this to the police? Paterno did exactly what was required by law and if there was any training done by the University it would have told him to do exactly what he did. remember he's a University employee just like a faculty member or a librarian.

 

From what we've read so far Paterno did not try to cover it up, he reported it.

Well, he forced Sandusky into retirement after he first heard about it, and then still let the guy have access to both kids and his facilities for another 3-4 years before hearing about it again and finally banning Sandusky from having kids on campus (which he still did). That to me says he knew about it and basically said its ok as long as its not on campus and you arent a PSU employee. The Grad student met with Paterno at his house and told him what he saw and nobody picked up the phone and called 911 or child services or anything. Wouldnt you expect more from the most powerful man in State College?

 

 

Paterno then told his AD, Tim Curley, who summoned McQueary 1 ½ weeks later. Sandusky was banned from bringing children into the football facility but no authorities were contacted.

 

If that is considered "doing enough" then I dont know what has happened to people.

Edited November 9, 2011 by RockRaines

[Jenksismyhero]

Based on that Grand Jury finding, there's no way Paterno can truly claim ignornance here. An assistant coach and former player told him what he saw and was very upset. I don't know how the information would be completely unbelievable given the source.

 

He reported it to the top guy in charge the very next day. They had a meeting. Schultz and Curley said they would look into it, and did, and banished Sandusky from bringing children in the locker room. As far as Paterno goes, you've given the allegations to your superiors and they brought down some punishment but nothing else was done. Why should he then go straight to the police? Wouldn't you assume that those people doing the investigations would have if the claims were credible?

 

And it's unbelievable just in the sense that it's a friend you've had for 30 years and you find out that he's at minimum fondling boys int he shower, or at worst raping him. That's not something a normal person is going to believe right away. You're going to look back and think about the 30 years you've known the guy and have real difficulty believing that he (who fostered numerous kids and had been heavily involved in helping troubled youths) would do something like that.

 

To me this is like claiming that Paterno called the cops, they didn't follow through with any charges, the cops end up acting criminally in covering up the actual crime, and Paterno is now faulted for not reporting what he heard to a Penn child services department or the FBI.

 

In hindsight it's easy to say that Paterno should have followed up. But I don't think his actions were really that unreasonable based on the information contained in the grand jury finding.

 

As I've said before, if anything, the GA is the real problem here. He didn't stop what he saw, and despite telling Curley and Schultz what happened, he knew that Sandusky got away with a small punishment. He also knew that Sandusky continued to receive benefits and continued to be involved with kids. He NEVER spoke about it again until this investigation.

[Milkman delivers]

Agreed, and that's part of the reason I hate these "OMG I loved Penn State but now I can't" articles circulating the web. That's issue number 10 on the list of what people should be focused on, the first being the kids and their families.

 

Btw, who wants to bet me that the kid in the shower is a current Penn State player and/or student? Sandusky was known to get his "kids" onto the team.

 

That's the beautiful thing about being a person. We have the ability to care about all of these things and want them all solved. Arrest the child molester and fire anyone who had knowledge of the incidents and didn't inform the police. Pretty damn simple.

[Milkman delivers]

AP reporting Paterno to retire at the end of the season. Big deal, he was gonna retire soon anyway.

 

I hope every opposing fan is unrelenting and crass as can be. Paterno shouldn't have the chance to finish out the season. He should be out of a job at this very second.

[Jenksismyhero]

Well, he forced Sandusky into retirement after he first heard about it, and then still let the guy have access to both kids and his facilities for another 3-4 years before hearing about it again and finally banning Sandusky from having kids on campus (which he still did). That to me says he knew about it and basically said its ok as long as its not on campus and you arent a PSU employee. The Grad student met with Paterno at his house and told him what he saw and nobody picked up the phone and called 911 or child services or anything. Wouldnt you expect more from the most powerful man in State College?

 

He did? That's not in the grand jury finding.

[RockRaines]

I hope every opposing fan is unrelenting and crass as can be. Paterno shouldn't have the chance to finish out the season. He should be out of a job at this very second.

It really sucks that the football team is involved in the discussion at all. I wish we could take the PSU football team completely out of the context of this case and look at it just as it is, a really awful coverup of terrible repeated crimes.

[Milkman delivers]

I guess the only thing I would say is that the players on the 2011 Penn State team bear no guilt in this, and taking two coaches away in the middle of a season damages their chances at a Big Ten championship and a chance to go to a BCS game, which is not fair to them. Plus, firing Paterno and McQueary right now is only symbolic and really doesn't help the victims any. A better option might be to strip Paterno of any honors he might have (honorary degrees, professor emeritus, name on buildings/streets, etc.), and make sure that McQueary never works in football again.

 

Awful. And if anyone's dad is found guilty of molesting a child or abetting in the molestation of a child, then they should see no repercussions because that dad has kids that depend on him and it's not fair to punish those kids for something that wasn't their fault.

[RockRaines]

He did? That's not in the grand jury finding.

it been in several stories as well as information that he didnt even speak or spoke very little at his retirement dinner. Several PSU sources have said their relationship soured at the end of the 90's.

Edited November 9, 2011 by RockRaines

[Milkman delivers]

Tex i'm in agreement here. I have no personal like of Paterno, but I don't understand the outrage towards him. I think him retiring and his otherwise flawless legacy has been ruined by all this. He'll no longer be the coach with the most wins. He'll be the coach with the most wins who left the school after a terrible scandal. Penalty enough (with the information out right now).

 

It's not surprising that every one wants to jump to judgment here. But I dunno that any of us would have acted differently if we were Paterno. He was given second hand information, the specificity of which is in question. At the time, the information is probably completely unbelievable given his history and friendship with Sandusky. Still, he reports it to the highest person in the department (the AD) who may well have told him he'd investigate the claim and that he'd deal with it. For all we know (and can probably expect, given the perjury committed by the AD), Paterno asked what happened and the AD lied to him and said nothing happened. Why would Paterno need to do anything more? He can rightly assume that the AD looked into it and found that there was no credible claim.

 

Until I hear from Paterno and he explains what happened and what he knew, i'm not going to have a conniption fit over him symbolically coaching a game.

 

At which point, he'll have been coached to perfection on what to say to cover his ass. There are no excuses here, but of course there are always going to be a couple of Devil's advocates.

[Jenksismyhero]

At which point, he'll have been coached to perfection on what to say to cover his ass. There are no excuses here, but of course there are always going to be a couple of Devil's advocates.

 

Probably. But if Paterno's was involved in the cover-up, I dunno why that wouldn't be included in the grand jury finding.

[RockRaines]

Easier info from the GJ report:

 

http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/press.aspx?id=6270

[RockRaines]

Probably. But if Paterno's was involved in the cover-up, I dunno why that wouldn't be included in the grand jury finding.

There are a TON of FOIA requests going on to get all of the information out of this case. PSU is a public university and the press will be able to get files upon files including emails and internal investigation records. This story has not yet shaken out. If this gets to trial, watch out.

[StrangeSox]

He reported it to the top guy in charge the very next day. They had a meeting. Schultz and Curley said they would look into it, and did, and banished Sandusky from bringing children in the locker room. As far as Paterno goes, you've given the allegations to your superiors and they brought down some punishment but nothing else was done. Why should he then go straight to the police? Wouldn't you assume that those people doing the investigations would have if the claims were credible?

 

No. If someone I've known for years comes to me in distress, describes and awful scene of someone else I've known for years (who happens to have a close relationship with numerous young boys) was raping or molesting a young boy, I wouldn't kick the matter upstairs and assume it'll shake itself out.

 

And it's unbelievable just in the sense that it's a friend you've had for 30 years and you find out that he's at minimum fondling boys int he shower, or at worst raping him. That's not something a normal person is going to believe right away. You're going to look back and think about the 30 years you've known the guy and have real difficulty believing that he (who fostered numerous kids and had been heavily involved in helping troubled youths) would do something like that.

 

Sure, it's not unreasonable to react to that situation with initial shock and disbelief. But once you get past the immediate emotional reaction and look at the pattern of behavior...

 

To me this is like claiming that Paterno called the cops, they didn't follow through with any charges, the cops end up acting criminally in covering up the actual crime, and Paterno is now faulted for not reporting what he heard to a Penn child services department or the FBI.

 

This isn't like this at all because he kept it internal to PSU and never followed up. His inaction protected his long-time friend from very serious allegations.

 

In hindsight it's easy to say that Paterno should have followed up. But I don't think his actions were really that unreasonable based on the information contained in the grand jury finding.

 

Saying that someone shouldn't kick the can of alleged child rape down the road isn't unreasonable. Paterno knew of the allegations and they came from a trusted, credible source with no motive for making it up. Telling your superiors and then letting them sweep the matter under the rug is never a reasonable course of action.

 

As I've said before, if anything, the GA is the real problem here. He didn't stop what he saw, and despite telling Curley and Schultz what happened, he knew that Sandusky got away with a small punishment. He also knew that Sandusky continued to receive benefits and continued to be involved with kids. He NEVER spoke about it again until this investigation.

 

Sure, Paterno is far from the biggest villian in this story. But he is still morally culpable for enabling this man for years with his inaction.

Edited November 9, 2011 by StrangeSox

[StrangeSox]

Probably. But if Paterno's was involved in the cover-up, I dunno why that wouldn't be included in the grand jury finding.

 

He fulfilled his legal obligations, no one is really questioning that.

[Milkman delivers]

Probably. But if Paterno's was involved in the cover-up, I dunno why that wouldn't be included in the grand jury finding.

 

Whether it be explicit or implicit, he was involved with the cover up. He did the bare minimum required to cover his ass, and didn't alert the authorities. We can argue all we want that he perhaps had the purest of intentions and figured the AD took care of the situation, but we all know that's bulls***. Joe Paterno should be fired today. This isn't a court of law. There is way more than enough to force PSU to just can his ass immediately. And they're fools not to do so.

[RockRaines]

He fulfilled his legal obligations, no one is really questioning that.

Actually in the State of Pennsylvania it is legally required to call the police in that situation.

[Milkman delivers]

Actually in the State of Pennsylvania it is legally required to call the police in that situation.

 

Boom, roasted.

[Soxbadger]

Id have to see the law, because Paterno did not have first hand knowledge, he only had "hearsay" evidence. He reported it, hearing about an alleged crime is a lot different than witnessing an alleged crime.

 

Its a bad situation, but its not that easy to say everyone should call the police with really weak evidence.

[RockRaines]

Id have to see the law, because Paterno did not have first hand knowledge, he only had "hearsay" evidence. He reported it, hearing about an alleged crime is a lot different than witnessing an alleged crime.

 

Its a bad situation, but its not that easy to say everyone should call the police with really weak evidence.

What about hearing about it more than once? Would that then qualify?

[Jenksismyhero]

No. If someone I've known for years comes to me in distress, describes and awful scene of someone else I've known for years (who happens to have a close relationship with numerous young boys) was raping or molesting a young boy, I wouldn't kick the matter upstairs and assume it'll shake itself out.

 

So distressed he couldn't/didn't stop it and waited an entire night to tell Paterno.

 

Sure, it's not unreasonable to react to that situation with initial shock and disbelief. But once you get past the immediate emotional reaction and look at the pattern of behavior...

 

There was no "pattern" at the time. That's the problem here. Everyone is looking at this situation like Paterno knew this guy was a monster for years and years. As far as we know, that was the first Paterno heard of anything like that before.

 

This isn't like this at all because he kept it internal to PSU and never followed up. His inaction protected his long-time friend from very serious allegations.

 

Again, hindsight makes it easier to blame. Why on earth couldn't Paterno trust his AD and a VP of the school (who happens to oversee the campus police) to do the right thing and if necessary report the allegation to the proper outside authorities?

 

Saying that someone shouldn't kick the can of alleged child rape down the road isn't unreasonable. Paterno knew of the allegations and they came from a trusted, credible source with no motive for making it up. Telling your superiors and then letting them sweep the matter under the rug is never a reasonable course of action.

 

You don't know that he's credible. For all we know Paterno might have known that Sandusky and the GA had private issues and the GA was trying to get him in trouble. Pure conjecture.

 

And "letting them sweep the matter under the rug" is bulls***. Give me a reason why Paterno shouldn't have trusted his AD to do the right thing.

 

 

[Kyyle23]

So distressed he couldn't/didn't stop it and waited an entire night to tell Paterno.

 

 

 

There was no "pattern" at the time. That's the problem here. Everyone is looking at this situation like Paterno knew this guy was a monster for years and years. As far as we know, that was the first Paterno heard of anything like that before.

 

 

 

Again, hindsight makes it easier to blame. Why on earth couldn't Paterno trust his AD and a VP of the school (who happens to oversee the campus police) to do the right thing and if necessary report the allegation to the proper outside authorities?

 

 

 

You don't know that he's credible. For all we know Paterno might have known that Sandusky and the GA had private issues and the GA was trying to get him in trouble. Pure conjecture.

 

And "letting them sweep the matter under the rug" is bulls***. Give me a reason why Paterno shouldn't have trusted his AD to do the right thing.

 

 

You keep saying he should have trusted the AD to do the right thing, but here we are 9 years later and nothing was done. At what point do you stop trusting your AD to do the right thing when this guy has continued access to kids and the PSU facilities?

 

Could you sit on this info for this long and do nothing about it?

[Soxbadger]

Id have to see the facts, but generally the people who report a crime are those with first hand knowledge. Not some one who heard from some one else.

 

That being said, its not about right or wrong, someone said what he did was against the law and I would have to see the law.

 

I think most reasonable people would have reported it, but Im not sure its a crime.

[southsider2k5]

At which point, he'll have been coached to perfection on what to say to cover his ass. There are no excuses here, but of course there are always going to be a couple of Devil's advocates.

 

They should hire Matt Lawton.

[Quin]

I really want to know where the fire directed towards McQuery is at.

 

Joe Pa deserves a lot of heat for this, but right now it seems he's getting it because of his stature, and the others who did nothing aren't getting close to the same venom.

 

And Greg, the "come on." was towards the Penn State students chanting for Paterno.

[southsider2k5]

I really want to know where the fire directed towards McQuery is at.

 

Joe Pa deserves a lot of heat for this, but right now it seems he's getting it because of his stature, and the others who did nothing aren't getting close to the same venom.

 

And Greg, the "come on." was towards the Penn State students chanting for Paterno.

 

I'm way more upset about the administrators at the top of PS not doing anything versus Paterno just reporting this.