Penn State horror story

[Soxbadger]

Bmags,

 

Your missing the point. I dont care that PSU hired another coach, I dont care if they hire a no talent hack or the best coach in the world. That does not change the fact that the explayers have the right to speak out about how they feel PSU is treating the football team.

 

So far no one has promoted a good argument for why Arrington is so out of line saying that PSU is basically washing its hands of the "old regime" and therefore he, as a player who played for the old regime, is not going to help PSU.

 

I dont even know why you mentioned punished or the talent level of the next coach., It has nothing to do with Arrington or the other players statements. Notice none of them said "the new coach sucks" they all said "the new coach isnt from PSU".

 

The second part is a fact, they arent happy with it, they have a right to their opinion and PSU should not be kicked out of the Big 10 because players have opinions.

 

As for the quality of the coach, the players being punished, etc, no idea what relevance that has to Arrington's argument, that hes not from PSU. (Much like Rich Rod was not a "Michigan man", and no one said that Michigan should be booted from the Big 10 because some players wanted a coach who played for Michigan.)

[southsider2k5]

Bmags,

 

Your missing the point. I dont care that PSU hired another coach, I dont care if they hire a no talent hack or the best coach in the world. That does not change the fact that the explayers have the right to speak out about how they feel PSU is treating the football team.

 

So far no one has promoted a good argument for why Arrington is so out of line saying that PSU is basically washing its hands of the "old regime" and therefore he, as a player who played for the old regime, is not going to help PSU.

 

I dont even know why you mentioned punished or the talent level of the next coach., It has nothing to do with Arrington or the other players statements. Notice none of them said "the new coach sucks" they all said "the new coach isnt from PSU".

 

The second part is a fact, they arent happy with it, they have a right to their opinion and PSU should not be kicked out of the Big 10 because players have opinions.

 

As for the quality of the coach, the players being punished, etc, no idea what relevance that has to Arrington's argument, that hes not from PSU. (Much like Rich Rod was not a "Michigan man", and no one said that Michigan should be booted from the Big 10 because some players wanted a coach who played for Michigan.)

 

And people have the right to react to that. That whole freedom of speech thing works both ways.

[StrangeSox]

He does have a legitimate point that "kick PSU out of the Big10(12)!" isn't the logical response to ex-PSU players doing and saying dumb things.

[southsider2k5]

He does have a legitimate point that "kick PSU out of the Big10(12)!" isn't the logical response to ex-PSU players doing and saying dumb things.

 

So react to that and don't turn it into a freedom of speech argument.

[cabiness42]

He doesn't have support of the vast majority of former Penn State players and the vast majority of the student body and the faculty won't support him. I feel sorry for him."

 

Short said some members of the group were considering a range of options to express their displeasure, including asking current players to transfer and recruits to de-commit.

 

It's those two statements that made me suggest the conference might want to get involved. It's one thing for an ex-player to say that he doesn't support the new coach. It's a far different thing to suggest that he will actively interfere with recruiting. It's also very different to suggest that current employees (faculty) won't support him.

 

This sounds like it goes farther than former players expressing displeasure and goes very close to actual people within the university attempting to sabotage the program.

[Soxbadger]

SS2K,

 

Where did I make it a freedom of speech argument?

 

I said:

 

Boot PSU for what?

 

This is America, they have the right to their opinion.

 

I dont think kicking PSU out of the Big 10 because of what explayers said makes any sense. The players have a right to their opinion (its not 1st amendment by the way, no govt action).

 

Hickory,

 

None of that has anything to do with the Big 10, nor does it make sense that PSU would be booted for in house sabotage.

 

 

[StrangeSox]

SS2K,

 

Where did I make it a freedom of speech argument?

 

I said:

 

 

 

I dont think kicking PSU out of the Big 10 because of what explayers said makes any sense. The players have a right to their opinion (its not 1st amendment by the way, no govt action).

 

That doesn't really make sense as a response, though. Yeah, they're entitled to their opinions. So is PSU and the Big 10. Stating that they have this right, which no one contested that they did not, in response to saying that the Big 10 should kick out PSU because of dumb ex-players doesn't really follow.

[StrangeSox]

Hickory,

 

None of that has anything to do with the Big 10, nor does it make sense that PSU would be booted for in house sabotage.

 

Right, so it has nothing to do with whether someone has a right to hold a particular opinion.

[cabiness42]

Hickory,

 

None of that has anything to do with the Big 10, nor does it make sense that PSU would be booted for in house sabotage.

 

It has to do with the Big 10 in that the Big 10 is trying to make the most money possible for its member schools, and if PSU is going to self-destruct its football program, the Big Ten needs to find a replacement that will field a competetive team and draw TV ratings.

 

[bmags]

And people have the right to react to that. That whole freedom of speech thing works both ways.

 

Thank you. Freedom of speech has nothing to do with how individuals react to each other, or private institutions. It has to do with how governments react to individuals or private institutions.

 

Arrington and all the idiots at penn state are allowed to huff and puff about how terrible they are being treated (such as having a different coach hired) for their program covering up child rape. But if it starts to affect the league around them, they are allowed to act. This is america.

[Soxbadger]

But if it starts to affect the league around them, they are allowed to act. This is america.

 

Where did I say anything to the contrary?

 

I asked "Boot PSU for what?"

 

I never mentioned the 1st amendment, its not even govt action how could the 1st amendment apply? I already previously stated this wasnt a freedom of speech argument.

 

I merely asked the question, Why should PSU be booted for players having an opinion? And followed it with a flippant remark about restricting peoples opinions.

[bmags]

Where did I say anything to the contrary?

 

I asked "Boot PSU for what?"

 

I never mentioned the 1st amendment, its not even govt action how could the 1st amendment apply? I already previously stated this wasnt a freedom of speech argument.

 

I merely asked the question, Why should PSU be booted for players having an opinion? And followed it with a flippant remark about restricting peoples opinions.

 

Because if former penn state players and students start making headlines about how unfairly the school that saw a child rape scandal is being treated, because they hired a new coach they didn't want, and other schools start feeling like their image is being derailed because of their conference association, then yes, they can act. But you seem to think everything happens in a vacuum. They are symbols of penn state. When they speak, people think "this is how penn state fans/administrators must feel". And considering how whiney and incredibly stupid it is, yes, i continue to think less and less of that program. As do many across the country.

 

[southsider2k5]

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/...tell-side-story

 

Jay Paterno, the son of former longtime Penn State football coach Joe Paterno, told ESPN's Tom Rinaldi that his father is "fighting like crazy" to beat lung cancer and would like to tell his side of the story that ultimately led to his firing.

 

"He's doing well because of the fact he's in great spirits," Jay Paterno said in a wide-ranging interview. "Anytime you have this kind of fight on your hands, you have to have a fighting spirit, which Joe has always had. And he's fighting like crazy. But it takes some, takes some energy out of him like it does anybody else. I mean, he said to me, 'I get tired from time to time.'

 

[+] EnlargeJay Paterno

Rob Christy/US PresswireJay Paterno says he isn't sure how his father has been judged in the court of public opinion.

 

"He's very anxious to get out there soon and start to tell his side of the story and start to express -- get all the facts out," Jay Paterno said. "What that timetable is I don't know exactly. But he definitely is chomping at the bit."

 

Paterno told Rinaldi that he wants Penn State fans, alumni and supporters to back new coach Bill O'Brien, who was officially hired on Saturday.

 

He told Rinaldi that he and his father -- who issued a statement congratulating O'Brien and noting that the two both graduated from the same school, Brown -- know O'Brien faces unique challenges in replacing a man who won 409 games in 46 years at Penn State.

 

"I don't think anybody knows really what the guy that follows Joe Paterno is going to face," Paterno said. "Nobody knows that. You're not replacing Joe Paterno. You've become the head coach at Penn State. And the most important thing is that you don't try and live up to something instead of -- of a person. You try and just carry on the goals and the values and the things that have always been a part of this program, and I think that's the only challenge you have to worry about."

 

Joe Paterno's cancer diagnosis was revealed on Nov. 18, nine days after he was fired by Penn State in the wake of a sexual abuse scandal that has resulted in 52 counts of child molestation against former defensive coordinator Jerry Sandusky.

 

Last month, Sandusky waived his preliminary hearing. His next court appearance is a March 22 pretrial conference. Sandusky has maintained his innocence and is under house arrest after posting $250,000 bail.

 

In addition, former athletic director Tim Curley and a school vice president, Gary Schultz, face trial for charges of perjury and failing to report suspected child abuse and have left the school. Penn State president Graham Spanier was also fired on Nov. 9, along with Joe Paterno.

 

Jay Paterno said he isn't sure how his father has been judged in the court of public opinion.

 

"I can't really say how he would feel about it," Jay Paterno said. "But I think what has happened, it has almost been a runaway train -- as it has impacted Joe Paterno, as it has impacted Penn State, as it has impacted Penn State football."

 

“

 

I think the most important thing, when you look at some of the things that have happened in the past, whether it be Duke lacrosse, whether it be Richard Jewell in Atlanta, I think there has to be some time for facts to come out. And whether -- they may have had facts.

” -- Jay Paterno, on the Penn State trustees' decision to fire his father

 

Paterno said he wouldn't have wanted to be in the shoes of the Penn State Board of Trustees when they made the decision to let his father go. But he did wish officials had been more deliberate.

 

"I think the most important thing, when you look at some of the things that have happened in the past, whether it be Duke lacrosse, whether it be Richard Jewell in Atlanta, I think there has to be some time for facts to come out," Paterno said. "And whether -- they may have had facts. I don't know what they had, so I don't know what message I could've delivered to them based on I don't know what information they had. "

 

Paterno said he didn't know what he would say if he saw Sandusky, other than to support Sandusky's son, E.J.

 

"I don't know, I couldn't even pretend to say I know exactly what I would say," he said.

 

Asked what he believed about Sandusky's claim of innocence, Paterno said: "I don't believe anything yet. I think it's the responsibility of us as Americans to wait for due process to happen, to let the facts to come out."

 

But Paterno did mention Sandusky's accusers, saying his father would want their plight to be remembered, too.

 

"I think one of the things that Joe has stressed to us throughout this whole time is, 'Yeah, I'm going through some tough things, but there's a lot of other things going on over the last couple months. And there's some victims out there that we need to keep in our thoughts,' " Paterno said. "And he stressed that to us a bunch of times."

 

Paterno doesn't know where his next job will be. O'Brien said he will interview every member of the Penn State coaching staff over the next few days. If he is not retained, Paterno doesn't know what his future is. He said he would discuss it with his wife to see if there is a future in coaching.

 

"It's been a roller-coaster ride, with a lot of dips and a lot of ups and a lot of downs," Jay Paterno said of the days since his father was fired. Citing Arthur Miller's book "The Crucible," he talked about the impact of the situation on his family's name.

 

"I think about the fact that, after 61 years, people can try and take that away," he said. "And that's probably been the thing that's really stuck me the most, because (Joe Paterno) lived his life in a way that does honor to the name that his father gave him."

[Balta1701]

Jerry Sandusky caught Joe Paterno's record 409th win from the president's box at Beaver Stadium days before the disgraced former Penn State assistant football coach's November arrest, according to a newspaper report.

 

The Patriot-News of Harrisburg, citing sources close to Penn State's trustees, said that the 67-year-old Sandusky was seen in then-president Graham Spanier's box on Oct. 29 and later stopped in at the school's Nittany Lion booster club.

 

University spokesman Bill Mahon told the paper, however, that a look over the guest list for the box for every Penn State game dating back to 2008 revealed that Sandusky was never invited to sit in the school president's office's box.

 

The Nittany Lions toppled Illinois 10-7 on Oct. 29 to make Paterno the winningest coach in the history of college football. Less that a week later, Sandusky was charged with sexually abusing 10 boys over a 15-year period. Sandusky has denied the charges and remains out on $250,000 bail while awaiting trial.

 

Spanier was ousted amid the scandal and replaced by Rodney Erickson, who said Tuesday he will step down when his contract ends in 2014.

Link. Having the guy in the press box but not listing him as a guest? That seems...odd.

[LittleHurt05]

Franco Harris chimes in...

 

KING OF PRUSSIA, Pa. -- Former Penn State running back Franco Harris doesn't believe Joe Paterno's firing was in the school's best interest and urged alumni to be relentless.

 

Speaking to a gathering of about 300 on Thursday, Harris received a standing ovation as he delivered his message.

 

Paterno's dismissal, and the school's handling of it, has been a hot-button issue for the former Pittsburgh Steeler.

 

"I can't understand why it happened. Us, as an alumni, we have to be relentless. We have to keep fighting for Penn State," he said. "We can't let the board of trustees or the media write the final chapter."

 

In the same hotel in suburban Philadelphia, school President Rodney Erickson held the second of three town hall events aimed at repairing the school's image in the aftermath of child sex abuse charges against retired defensive coordinator Jerry Sandusky. The 650 alumni in attendance for the sometimes heated 90-minute session didn't receive him well, and most of their questions involved concerns over Paterno's firing.

 

Harris, too, questions Erickson's leadership.

 

"A lot of the answers that we want from the university aren't coming forward. When they do say something, even today, what I most recently heard, they think we're dumb," Harris said. "They want us to believe it was in the best interest of the school to fire Joe Paterno. No way was that in the best interest of the school."

 

At his forum, Harris asked for "real talk." The session began after 8 p.m., and as people began to filter out 2 1/2 hours later, Harris played a Penn State football commemorative DVD.

 

"I find it hard to believe that on Nov. 9th, that all 32 board members wanted Joe Paterno fired," Harris said. "Hopefully, someone will come forward and admit they didn't want Joe Paterno fired. This wasn't a football problem. If had been a football issue, believe me, Joe Paterno would have handled this.

 

"The present leadership thinks it's right what happened and how this was handled. And we all know it was wrong. And this comes from our current leadership. They're hoping everything goes on as normal. All I want is the truth.

 

"I think we deserve it."

 

Harris said he called Erickson to ask him to consider rehiring Paterno but Erickson told him no. Harris did throw tepid support behind new Penn State coach Bill O'Brien and said he did not believe the next coach had to be from Penn State.

 

"But I do find it disturbing that not one of our people had any input at all in the decision," Harris said.

 

"But the thing that's upsetting to me is that this is labeled a football sex scandal and that our assistant coaches won't be able to get a job anywhere in the country. They should honor Joe. With their inaction, once again, they show Joe Paterno, all the good things he's done, and everything he's built, is not important."

 

Penn State's tumultuous year ended with a 30-14 loss to Houston in the TicketCity Bowl on Jan. 2. O'Brien was hired four days later.

 

"We can't let them get away with what they've done and what they're doing. They should rehire Joe Paterno for the first four games of next season and begin the transition right there," Harris said. "Otherwise, there is no closure. If Joe Paterno isn't hired back, I'm not going to the first four games."

Harris had the attention of the room the whole session. One supporter even blurted out that he should run for a board position at Penn State. Harris could only laugh before answering.

 

"You know, my running days are over."

[Milkman delivers]

It just makes me hope that terrible things happen to the former players that are speaking out.

[Balta1701]

Washington Post has a big piece with Paterno speaking on record. Here's some of the money portion, but there's lots of other statements if you want the full story.

Paterno contends that ignorance was the context with which he heard McQueary’s disturbing story in 2002. McQueary, sitting at Paterno’s kitchen table, told him that he had been at the football building late the evening before when he heard noises coming from the shower.

 

“He was very upset and I said why, and he was very reluctant to get into it,” Paterno said. “He told me what he saw, and I said, what? He said it, well, looked like inappropriate, or fondling, I’m not quite sure exactly how he put it. I said you did what you had to do. It’s my job now to figure out what we want to do. So I sat around. It was a Saturday. Waited till Sunday because I wanted to make sure I knew what I was doing. And then I called my superiors and I said, ‘Hey, we got a problem, I think. Would you guys look into it?’ Cause I didn’t know, you know. We never had, until that point, 58 years I think, I had never had to deal with something like that. And I didn’t feel adequate.”

 

At that point, Paterno set up a meeting for McQueary and Curley, the athletic director, and Schultz, who oversaw university police. McQueary has testified that he gave both men a far more graphic description of what he witnessed, which he believed to be Sandusky sodomizing a boy of about 10, who had his hands against the shower wall. At the preliminary hearing for Curley and Schultz on Dec. 16, McQueary said he had been reluctant to go into similar “great detail about sexual acts” with Paterno, out of respect for the coach, who was 75 at the time.

 

Schultz and Curley have maintained that McQueary failed to impart the seriousness of what he saw to them as well. They never told police about the allegation, instead informing Sandusky he could no longer bring children to university facilities. Prosecutors say Sandusky continued to abuse boys for six more years.

 

Paterno has said, “In hindsight, I wish I had done more.”

 

Paterno’s portrait of himself is of an old-world man profoundly confused by what McQueary told him, and who was hesitant to make follow-up calls because he did not want to be seen as trying to exert any influence for or against Sandusky. “I didn’t know which way to go,” he said. “And rather than get in there and make a mistake . . .”

 

He reiterated that McQueary was unclear with him about the nature of what he saw — and added that even if McQueary had been more graphic, he’s not sure he would have comprehended it.

 

“You know, he didn’t want to get specific,” Paterno said. “And to be frank with you I don’t know that it would have done any good, because I never heard of, of, rape and a man. So I just did what I thought was best. I talked to people that I thought would be, if there was a problem, that would be following up on it.”

[Balta1701]

I don't want to put this is the Paterno death thread for some reason, but I really wanted to share it.

 

Link. expect profanity.

[Soxbadger]

Its up to each of us who we blame and who we forgive, I know that I can be very hypocritical in that regard. At the end of the day, I dont think this one is on Paterno.

[StrangeSox]

I don't want to put this is the Paterno death thread for some reason, but I really wanted to share it.

 

Link. expect profanity.

 

+1

[LittleHurt05]

I don't want to put this is the Paterno death thread for some reason, but I really wanted to share it.

 

Link. expect profanity.

 

Wow, that's intense. 100% true though.

[DrunkBomber]

I like it.

[G&T]

Jay Paterno tells us on the Today show that the Sandusky scandal did not weigh on him at all because Joe was so strong. That's nice.

[LittleHurt05]

Jay Paterno tells us on the Today show that the Sandusky scandal did not weigh on him at all because Joe was so strong. That's nice.

 

That's understandable. Why would he worry about the child rape he was told about it when he has football games to win? We are Penn State!

[Milkman delivers]

Wow, that's intense. 100% true though.

 

I had to stop reading it when she started getting into the specifics of the molestation.