Steve9347 Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 23, 2012 -> 07:48 PM) I don't want to put this is the Paterno death thread for some reason, but I really wanted to share it. Link. expect profanity. Everyone everywhere should read this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 (edited) ive read the article a few times, I dont really see a correlation. And it is sad that this even needs to be said-but if you know, suspect, or even have an inkling that a child is being abused, do what Joe Paterno and so many, many others had neither the basic moral decency or the courage to do, and report it to the authorities. Paterno did report it to "the authorities" he reported it to the head of campus police, Gary Schultz. If you want to be taken seriously, at least stick to the truth. Make the article that just going to the police is not enough, that you have to do more, that you cant trust the police, because the police twice failed in this case. No one seems to want to ask the hard question, why did the police not do their job? People have the right to believe Paterno should have done more than merely reporting it to the authorities, but to deny that he did, is just an outright fabrication. (edit) To clarify she did bring up this point: I don't care if it is your neighbor, your husband, your wife, your beloved coach, your boss, or the effing Pope himself, report it, and follow up to make sure that child is safe from harm . But I think she placed the wrong emphasis on what Paterno did. Paterno didnt follow up, but he definitely did report it to authorities. I also am not a huge fan of this line of reasoning, because I dont blame the average German for what happened under the Nazi's, I dont blame the witness who doesnt come forward, I blame the criminal. Edited January 24, 2012 by Soxbadger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniKrush Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Mainly for SoxbadgerPaterno, but everyone can read: http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2012/01/22/ber...ms-not-paterno/ Congrats on doing the right thing according to the law but not the right thing according to morals and being a f***ing human being. For year after year after year after year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 They arent mutually exclusive. If you cant recognize that, there is nothing I can say. Some of my relatives have been victims of child abuse/rape, so I dont really get off on this Paterno grave dancing s***. You want to help, educate people, dont throw Paterno under the bus for actually reporting. You want to know the truth, many people dont even report the crime at all. Why? Fear. So instead of castrating Paterno for reporting a potential crime to the supervisor of the police, why dont we take a long hard look at the actual failures of the f***ing police. They investigated Sandusky 10 years prior to Paterno reporting the incident, what the f*** is that? /shrugs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jan 24, 2012 -> 10:37 PM) They arent mutually exclusive. If you cant recognize that, there is nothing I can say. Some of my relatives have been victims of child abuse/rape, so I dont really get off on this Paterno grave dancing s***. You want to help, educate people, dont throw Paterno under the bus for actually reporting. You want to know the truth, many people dont even report the crime at all. Why? Fear. So instead of castrating Paterno for reporting a potential crime to the supervisor of the police, why dont we take a long hard look at the actual failures of the f***ing police. They investigated Sandusky 10 years prior to Paterno reporting the incident, what the f*** is that? /shrugs No one has ever said the police didn't f*** up. That does need to be brought up so future allegations aren't taken likely. But instead everyone is canonizing Paterno as such a great person the whole time. Why? Because he coached football, and that's what f***ing matters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jan 24, 2012 -> 04:13 PM) But I think she placed the wrong emphasis on what Paterno did. Paterno didnt follow up, but he definitely did report it to authorities. She did point out that follow-up was the issue. Paterno didn't care about anything other than the image of Penn State. Case closed. You're continued backing of Paterno for argument's sake is appalling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jan 24, 2012 -> 10:37 PM) Some of my relatives have been victims of child abuse/rape, so I dont really get off on this Paterno grave dancing s***. Oh, great. Default to the "I know someone who - so I'm right" argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Where have I made that argument Steve? I said "I dont get off on the grave dancing s***". I merely said that making Paterno out to be the worst person in all of this is wrong. I said that the police are bigger culprits. Im done, I never canonized Paterno, I never did anything but say that people need to focus on the real criminal and crime. If you dont want to do that Steve, if you want to continue to focus on Paterno, so be it. Its sad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jan 25, 2012 -> 11:13 AM) Where have I made that argument Steve? I said "I dont get off on the grave dancing s***". I merely said that making Paterno out to be the worst person in all of this is wrong. I said that the police are bigger culprits. Im done, I never canonized Paterno, I never did anything but say that people need to focus on the real criminal and crime. If you dont want to do that Steve, if you want to continue to focus on Paterno, so be it. Its sad. And nobody said that. That's the problem. The guy's defending him keep making that argument and nobody ever said it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jan 25, 2012 -> 11:13 AM) Where have I made that argument Steve? I said "I dont get off on the grave dancing s***". I merely said that making Paterno out to be the worst person in all of this is wrong. I said that the police are bigger culprits. Im done, I never canonized Paterno, I never did anything but say that people need to focus on the real criminal and crime. If you dont want to do that Steve, if you want to continue to focus on Paterno, so be it. Its sad. You haven't canonzied Paterno, but the media has, PSU alumni have, a lot of other people have, and that's what upsets so many people. He isn't the biggest culprit, Sandusky is. The police that didn't take the original case seriously f***ed up worse too. But due to everybody apologizing for JoePa, saying that because he was such a great football coach, excuse this one little mistake. That's the reason why he is being talked about so much in the case, more than others who may be bigger culprits. Joe Paterno has run the PSU campus for the last several decades. Despite alerting his "superiors" about what McQueary told him, he was the most important person in Happy Valley, and everybody listened to him. He could have done much more to try & stop Sandusky, but did as little as legally required to protect his football program, because that's all he knows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 When you read the article "f*** JOE PATERNO" and it does not even mention the police failure and only 1 time uses Sandusky's name, doesnt it kind of imply that Paterno is some how the villain in all of this? She uses Paterno's name at least 15 times in her posts, she uses Sandusky's name 1 time, she uses Schultz name 0 times, she uses the witnesses name 0 times. Thats my problem with the article, you can hate Joe Paterno all you want, but at least make it clear that in terms of who is to blame, Paterno is not #1. Thats not saying he didnt do anything wrong, or maybe he could have done more, but it should be always clear that the failure was on the police and CRIMINAL. Had the POLICE done their job, Sandusky would have been stopped 20 years ago. You want to rant, rant about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jan 25, 2012 -> 11:31 AM) When you read the article "f*** JOE PATERNO" and it does not even mention the police failure and only 1 time uses Sandusky's name, doesnt it kind of imply that Paterno is some how the villain in all of this? She uses Paterno's name at least 15 times in her posts, she uses Sandusky's name 1 time, she uses Schultz name 0 times, she uses the witnesses name 0 times. Thats my problem with the article, you can hate Joe Paterno all you want, but at least make it clear that in terms of who is to blame, Paterno is not #1. Thats not saying he didnt do anything wrong, or maybe he could have done more, but it should be always clear that the failure was on the police and CRIMINAL. Had the POLICE done their job, Sandusky would have been stopped 20 years ago. You want to rant, rant about that. If you're taking the article as a stand-alone piece and didn't follow any of the previous story, yes. But in reality, the article was most likely written in response to the canonization of Paterno by the media as a whole. Everyone is in agreement that Sandusky is the worst guy in this situation, and anyone who knows anything about the case understands that Schultz, Curley, McQueary, etc. all have varying degrees of guilt as well. But you don't get articles defending those guys, as the public opinion about them is in agreement that they were also at fault. The article was written about Paterno because he's the one guy being defended in all of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Paterno is a villian, not the villian. But still, f*** Joe Paterno. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Jan 25, 2012 -> 11:38 AM) If you're taking the article as a stand-alone piece and didn't follow any of the previous story, yes. But in reality, the article was most likely written in response to the canonization of Paterno by the media as a whole. bingo. That's where the angry backlash is coming from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jan 25, 2012 -> 11:38 AM) Paterno is a villian, not the villian. But still, f*** Joe Paterno. He's like the Goro to Sandusky's Shao Kahn, or the Balrog/Vega/Sagat to Sandusky's M. Bison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniKrush Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 See it's not what he originally did, what he originally reported. Every day, every year for almost 10 YEARS Paterno saw Sandusky, saw him with boys, saw him on campus, using FOOTBALL FACILITIES to help get his victims, every single time he didn't say something, he helped make the problem bigger and bigger. Ignoring it for the sake of the program, for fear of what could happened. He could have woke up on ANY one of those days and done something else. He didn't. If it was someone he knew, I bet he would have done something. But since it wasn't, he didn't. That's the problem. That IS someone's kid, even if it's not yours. The fact that he acted differently since it wasn't tells you all you need to know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Jan 25, 2012 -> 11:41 AM) He's like the Goro to Sandusky's Shao Kahn, or the Balrog/Vega/Sagat to Sandusky's M. Bison. gold star for the MK reference Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jan 25, 2012 -> 11:43 AM) gold star for the MK reference No love for Street Fighter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) Milkman, Thats a fine point, I just disagree with the way the author goes about making her point. By using "f*** Joe Paterno" and then "f*** my child rapist" you make an inherent connection in the readers mind that somehow what Joe Paterno did is equivalent to what a rapist did. If you just want to make an argument that people shouldnt canonize Paterno, go for it. But the author does more, she basically says Paterno deserves no respect, he deserves nothing, the basic implication is that his action was as terrible as the man who raped her. The bottom line is her being raped has nothing to do with whether or not Paterno should have done more. Its merely trying to give her moral authority to speak down on Paterno. But the fact is, you dont need to have been a victim of rape to be upset about what Paterno did, but at the same time when you are trying to get on your pulpit about how to stop abuse, you should consider focusing on the facts. if you are just ranting to get blog hits, feel free to use a famous persons name to pump them up, but if you want to make a real point, you want to make a real change, you have to start with the simple truth. You can not trust the police. The family of the victims trusted the police and they were failed. Paterno trusted the police and he was failed. We the people of the United States trust the police and we have ultimately been failed. Blame Paterno, dance on his grave, but be honest, he didnt rape anyone, he (to the best of my knowledge) never even witnessed a crime and he did report it to the supervisor of campus police. If that is not enough for you, that is fine, you are entitled to your opinion. Edited January 25, 2012 by Soxbadger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Stick to the facts. Paterno didn't "trust the police," he reported to a University official who oversaw the police and then didn't give a s*** about it ever again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jan 25, 2012 -> 11:50 AM) Milkman, Thats a fine point, I just disagree with the way the author goes about making her point. By using "f*** Joe Paterno" and then "f*** my child rapist" you make an inherent connection in the readers mind that somehow what Joe Paterno did is equivalent to what a rapist did. If you just want to make an argument that people shouldnt canonize Paterno, go for it. But the author does more, she basically says Paterno deserves no respect, he deserves nothing, the basic implication is that his action was as terrible as the man who raped her. The bottom line is her being raped has nothing to do with whether or not Paterno should have done more. Its merely trying to give her moral authority to speak down on Paterno. But the fact is, you dont need to have been a victim of rape to be upset about what Paterno did, but at the same time when you are trying to get on your pulpit about how to stop abuse, you should consider focusing on the facts. if you are just ranting to get blog hits, feel free to use a famous persons name to pump them up, but if you want to make a real point, you want to make a real change, you have to start with the simple truth. You can not trust the police. The family of the victims trusted the police and they were failed. Paterno trusted the police and he was failed. We the people of the United States trust the police and we have ultimately been failed. Blame Paterno, dance on his grave, but be honest, he didnt rape anyone, he (to the best of my knowledge) never even witnessed a crime and he did report it to the supervisor of campus police. If that is not enough for you, that is fine, you are entitled to your opinion. Now if someone responded to a post of yours with a line like that, you couldn't post "I didn't say that" fast enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jan 25, 2012 -> 11:50 AM) Milkman, Thats a fine point, I just disagree with the way the author goes about making her point. By using "f*** Joe Paterno" and then "f*** my child rapist" you make an inherent connection in the readers mind that somehow what Joe Paterno did is equivalent to what a rapist did. If you just want to make an argument that people shouldnt canonize Paterno, go for it. But the author does more, she basically says Paterno deserves no respect, he deserves nothing, the basic implication is that his action was as terrible as the man who raped her. The bottom line is her being raped has nothing to do with whether or not Paterno should have done more. Its merely trying to give her moral authority to speak down on Paterno. But the fact is, you dont need to have been a victim of rape to be upset about what Paterno did, but at the same time when you are trying to get on your pulpit about how to stop abuse, you should consider focusing on the facts. if you are just ranting to get blog hits, feel free to use a famous persons name to pump them up, but if you want to make a real point, you want to make a real change, you have to start with the simple truth. You can not trust the police. The family of the victims trusted the police and they were failed. Paterno trusted the police and he was failed. We the people of the United States trust the police and we have ultimately been failed. Blame Paterno, dance on his grave, but be honest, he didnt rape anyone, he (to the best of my knowledge) never even witnessed a crime and he did report it to the supervisor of campus police. If that is not enough for you, that is fine, you are entitled to your opinion. I'm not going to defend what that woman wrote, as she is clearly very angry and went to extremes in her writing. But I can see from your posts that you have a bit of an agenda with police Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 DON'T TALK TO THE POLICE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Milkman, What can I say I grew up on NWA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G&T Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jan 25, 2012 -> 12:59 PM) Stick to the facts. Paterno didn't "trust the police," he reported to a University official who oversaw the police and then didn't give a s*** about it ever again. Thank you. Not to mention that the campus police weren't going to do anything without the OK from Paterno. All Paterno did was report the crime to de jure supervisors when they were de facto subordinates. For some reason, there are people who refuse to understand that. The entire state was afraid to go against the program without Paterno's approval and clearly that never came. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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