Penn State horror story

[Soxbadger]

The entire state

 

If the state of Penn is afraid of Paterno that shows a bigger issue.

 

Furthermore, if Paterno was in charge of everything, how did the Board of Trustees fire him so quickly? Doesnt really seem to jive. If Paterno was the most powerful person in Penn, he would have been able to stay coaching this year. Clearly Paterno does not have more power than the Trustees, the Trustees knew about this years ago, the Trustees are the ones who cared about protecting the program. The trustees would have been the ones who could tell Schultz not to go to the police, not Paterno, Paterno was subordinate to both Schultz and trustees.

 

You cant just call people subordinates when they arent. Paterno cant fire the trustees, he cant fire schultz. At the end of the day if Paterno had as much power as people allege, how did he get fired so easily> Why isnt there any evidence of Paterno using his power to influence decisions?

 

From the evidence Ive seen, there is nothing to suggest Paterno in anyway used his power to prevent an investigation. Those facts may change, but as of now, I would guess it was the trustees who told Schultz what to do, not Paterno.

[StrangeSox]

It's true, people in positions of great power and influence never lose that power and influence in the wake of a scandal.

 

The issue isn't that Paterno used his power to stop an investigation--I don't think anyone's really alleged that. The issue is that he very clearly didn't use his power to force an investigation.

Edited January 25, 2012 by StrangeSox

[Soxbadger]

Strangesox,

 

I believe at some point someone at PSU put a stop to the investigation, and it may have been more than 1 investigation. Something like this does not happen for 20+ years, where police start an investigation, where there are multiple witnesses yet no real action by the state, its more than just a "mistake."

 

Something more went on there, and I personally believe people need to be demanding more information from PSU/Pennsylvania/etc about what happened and why it happened, instead of simply being happy going after Paterno. In my opinion the only reason they gave up Paterno was to try and protect something or someone else.

[G&T]

If the state of Penn is afraid of Paterno that shows a bigger issue.

 

Furthermore, if Paterno was in charge of everything, how did the Board of Trustees fire him so quickly? Doesnt really seem to jive. If Paterno was the most powerful person in Penn, he would have been able to stay coaching this year. Clearly Paterno does not have more power than the Trustees, the Trustees knew about this years ago, the Trustees are the ones who cared about protecting the program. The trustees would have been the ones who could tell Schultz not to go to the police, not Paterno, Paterno was subordinate to both Schultz and trustees.

 

You cant just call people subordinates when they arent. Paterno cant fire the trustees, he cant fire schultz. At the end of the day if Paterno had as much power as people allege, how did he get fired so easily> Why isnt there any evidence of Paterno using his power to influence decisions?

 

From the evidence Ive seen, there is nothing to suggest Paterno in anyway used his power to prevent an investigation. Those facts may change, but as of now, I would guess it was the trustees who told Schultz what to do, not Paterno.

 

1. Yes, it does show a bigger issue. You do realize that the governor of that state was the AG in charge of the Sandusky investigation and sat on the Board of Trustees at Penn State?

 

2. You do realize that he was asked to step down a couple years ago and he refused, right? They fired him because it was immediately clear that Paterno had acted to abet a child rapist in his program and the whole world just found out. Tough to have power under those circumstances. Paterno only told Curley (athletic director) and Schultz (part of his job was oversight of university police). Both of whom are now charged in the cover up and lying to the grand jury.

Actually the better question is, if everyone else failed Paterno, why did the Board of Trustees fire him so quickly without much of an investigation?

 

3. Paterno's program was the biggest money maker for the school. Even if the trustees can vote Paterno out, that doesn't mean that he wouldn't be seen as indispensible given the massive amount of money involved. Money talks. If he wanted Schultz out because he was covering up an investigation, I'm sure that Schultz would be out. There is no bigger fish to cover for than Paterno.

 

Maybe you should be aware of how much money he meant:

According to a report given to trustees by the executive director of the university's Office of Investment Management, Penn State's endowment increased by a record $392 million in fiscal 2011, with the total market value reaching an all-time high of $1.83 billion as of June.

 

Fiscal 2011 also was a record year for gifts to the endowment, amounting to $136 million, more than the previous two years combined. The university is also in the midst of a seven-year capital campaign, which aims to raise $2 billion by June 2014.

 

Now imagine when, for football reasons, the president and athletic director asked Paterno to step down seven years ago. He told them, “I'll retire when I want to retire.” Their response was precisely nothing, since they knew to whom they owed their salaries.

So, you ask, how can this happen? Simple, is how.

 

Joe Paterno was too big to fail, worth billions to a university which relied on their football coach to maintain a high-profile program that kept State College steeped in cash.

Rozner

[Soxbadger]

1) This is the point Im making.

 

2) They fired Paterno as a scapegoat. Its a pretty common tactic when a company comes under huge pressure. You throw a big name to the wolves and hope it appeases the blood lust. In this case that was Paterno. By giving the media Paterno on a platter, they make the story about Paterno instead of the "PSU cover up story." Notice how the entire nature of the media changed when they had Paterno. PSU used Paterno to take the heat. You have 2 guys who lied to a Grand Jury, to me that suggests that there is more cover up that has not been found. Ultimately the people who had the most to lose by this were the Trustees of PSU and PSU itself.

 

3) The bigger fish is the University and the Trustees. Paterno was only important to them as long as they werent under fire, as soon as PSU/Trustees began to get attacked, they immediately gave up Paterno to change the focus of the media. No one cares about Paterno, they care about the money. And if the whole ship is going down and the only way to save it is to throw the captain overboard, you throw the captain overboard, even if hes the best captain in the history of the world.

 

4) That quote does nothing. They asked Paterno to step down, many people have been asked to step down and dont. Ultimately the business chose not to fire Paterno because they felt Paterno was making them more money 7 years ago. It shows nothing about his power. Now if you had some evidence that the board of trustees voted to fire Paterno and somehow Paterno overruled the Board, that may show who had the most power. But merely asking someone to step down, is nothing.

[Steve9347]

I see badger is still rolling.

[Soxbadger]

Damn right, just because Paterno is dead doesnt mean that kids didnt get raped, it doesnt mean that there still isnt a hell of a lot of questions to be answered. For most, Paterno's death will be the end of the PSU saga, with no celebrity villain the public's interest will wain.

 

That is what PSU is hoping, that this scandal dies with Paterno.

[G&T]

1) This is the point Im making.

 

2) They fired Paterno as a scapegoat. Its a pretty common tactic when a company comes under huge pressure. You throw a big name to the wolves and hope it appeases the blood lust. In this case that was Paterno. By giving the media Paterno on a platter, they make the story about Paterno instead of the "PSU cover up story." Notice how the entire nature of the media changed when they had Paterno. PSU used Paterno to take the heat. You have 2 guys who lied to a Grand Jury, to me that suggests that there is more cover up that has not been found. Ultimately the people who had the most to lose by this were the Trustees of PSU and PSU itself.

 

3) The bigger fish is the University and the Trustees. Paterno was only important to them as long as they werent under fire, as soon as PSU/Trustees began to get attacked, they immediately gave up Paterno to change the focus of the media. No one cares about Paterno, they care about the money. And if the whole ship is going down and the only way to save it is to throw the captain overboard, you throw the captain overboard, even if hes the best captain in the history of the world.

 

4) That quote does nothing. They asked Paterno to step down, many people have been asked to step down and dont. Ultimately the business chose not to fire Paterno because they felt Paterno was making them more money 7 years ago. It shows nothing about his power. Now if you had some evidence that the board of trustees voted to fire Paterno and somehow Paterno overruled the Board, that may show who had the most power. But merely asking someone to step down, is nothing.

 

Ah...So Joe is the victim of the trustee's attempt to cover their actions? And you admit that there is more to the cover up but somehow the head football coach escapes questioning? Anyone doing any sort of investigation is pointing the finger at Paterno but you ignore it?

 

Paterno wasn't just a big name, he was the biggest money maker for the university. Nobody throws that kind of fund raising to the wolves. It is protected until it simply can't be anymore. Paterno is the reason for the money, not just football.

 

And just why is it that you believe power can only be displayed in votes and in the minutes of a trustees meeting?

[Steve9347]

Damn right, just because Paterno is dead doesnt mean that kids didnt get raped, it doesnt mean that there still isnt a hell of a lot of questions to be answered.

The issue here is that NO ONE IN THE WORLD is claiming this.

[Soxbadger]

G&T,

 

Where have I ignored anything? I simply have said that I do not believe that Paterno was the puppet master here and that if it was up to me, I would keep digging and digging until I went over every piece of evidence starting at least as early as the first report to the Pennsylvania police.

 

aterno wasn't just a big name, he was the biggest money maker for the university. Nobody throws that kind of fund raising to the wolves. It is protected until it simply can't be anymore. Paterno is the reason for the money, not just football.

 

That statement just isnt really true. By your own facts, PSU had asked Paterno to resign 7 years ago. So for the last 7 years, PSU really didnt want Paterno around, they just didnt want to deal with the fall out of getting rid of one of the most beloved coaches and someone who personally donated a lot of money to the school. This incident, gave them 1) the opportunity to get rid of Paterno and 2) the opportunity to use Paterno as a shield for the Trustees and University.

 

If Paterno was 40 years old and coming off a NC season, he is still the PSU coach, that I am confident in. The only reason they got rid of Paterno was that they had wanted to for a long time, and just couldnt deal with the negative publicity. This gave them that chance.

 

And just why is it that you believe power can only be displayed in votes and in the minutes of a trustees meeting?

 

Not sure that Ive implied or said that.

 

Steve,

 

No one is claiming it, but lets see what happens. I bet now that Paterno is dead the stories slowly start to fall from the newspapers, people slowly stop caring and ultimately no one ever gets to the bottom of this.

 

 

[Steve9347]

No one is claiming it, but lets see what happens. I bet now that Paterno is dead the stories slowly start to fall from the newspapers, people slowly stop caring and ultimately no one ever gets to the bottom of this.

I don't really see how you can claim that. It's pretty clear Sandusky is going to get his.

[Soxbadger]

Thats my point Steve.

 

We all know Sandusky is the criminal, but something else happened here. Child rape doesnt go on for 20+ years, have multiple witnesses, have a police investigation and have nothing come of it by accident.

 

My guess is that Paterno's failure was not the worst act committed by PSU, my guess is that there may have been something illegal done by the Trustees, etc. You cant stop at Paterno, this whole "Paterno is the most powerful man in Penn" is a myth being perpetrated to cover up a crime. Paterno did not have the power to stop a police investigation, even if he wanted it done,some one else had to make the call on Paterno's behalf and that is the person we need to find.

Edited January 25, 2012 by Soxbadger

[Steve9347]

Thats my point Steve.

 

We all know Sandusky is the criminal, but something else happened here. Child rape doesnt go on for 20+ years, have multiple witnesses, have a police investigation and have nothing come of it by accident.

 

My guess is that Paterno's failure was not the worst act committed by PSU, my guess is that there may have been something illegal done by the Trustees, etc. You cant stop at Paterno, this whole "Paterno is the most powerful man in Penn" is a myth being perpetrated to cover up a crime. Paterno did not have the power to stop a police investigation, even if he wanted it done,some one else had to make the call on Paterno's behalf and that is the person we need to find.

Paterno himself said he didn't do enough. F*ck him and f*ck people trying to act like his death is some sort of sad event. F*ck CNN for running a story about him dying "of a broken heart".

[Soxbadger]

Yes f*** anyone who has a different opinion!

 

 

[Soxbadger]

For comparisons sake, here is how the University of Wisconsin handled an alleged abuse incident that occurred this year's Rose Bowl.

 

http://www.news.wisc.edu/news/docs/2012_Ro...dent_Review.pdf

 

As you can see its a 35 page report filled with facts and findings. This was for a 1 incident that occurred last month.

 

To this day, I believe that PSU has yet to release any sort of information. Do you not find that odd?

Edited January 25, 2012 by Soxbadger

[DrunkBomber]

Thats my point Steve.

 

We all know Sandusky is the criminal, but something else happened here. Child rape doesnt go on for 20+ years, have multiple witnesses, have a police investigation and have nothing come of it by accident.

 

My guess is that Paterno's failure was not the worst act committed by PSU, my guess is that there may have been something illegal done by the Trustees, etc. You cant stop at Paterno, this whole "Paterno is the most powerful man in Penn" is a myth being perpetrated to cover up a crime. Paterno did not have the power to stop a police investigation, even if he wanted it done,some one else had to make the call on Paterno's behalf and that is the person we need to find.

Who said it was? I dont understand how people can keep using this argument over and over and completely disregard the fact nobody is saying that. There is one villain (Sandusky) and then at least a handful of people who facilitated the crimes either by turning a blind eye or doing the absolute minimum expected of them by the law. Were not ranking what who did was worse then someone else. Whoever JP reported what he heard to, McQueary etc are all to blame for this too obviously, but that doesnt excuse what JP did or didnt do. Arguing whether or not JP was the most powerful man at PSU is just semantics. If he followed up on what he reported to see what was happening they wouldnt have turned him away and anyone claiming that is absurd. Just because a few other people could have prevented other children from being raped doesnt excuse that JP also could have prevented it, and thats the point.

[LittleHurt05]

For comparisons sake, here is how the University of Wisconsin handled an alleged abuse incident that occurred this year's Rose Bowl.

 

http://www.news.wisc.edu/news/docs/2012_Ro...dent_Review.pdf

 

As you can see its a 35 page report filled with facts and findings. This was for a 1 incident that occurred last month.

 

To this day, I believe that PSU has yet to release any sort of information. Do you not find that odd?

 

Nope, PSU has always been secretive like that. In today's Tribune, recruiting guru Tom Lemming said that he has visited 119 of 120 FBS schools. Guess which one he hasn't been to? Paterno used to not publish a list of incoming freshman players. I had readother stories about NFL scouts saying how it difficult was to meet with any potential NFL players at PSU. The secrecy has been there for decades, and I think it was a contributing factor in this whole scandal too.

[StrangeSox]

For comparisons sake, here is how the University of Wisconsin handled an alleged abuse incident that occurred this year's Rose Bowl.

 

http://www.news.wisc.edu/news/docs/2012_Ro...dent_Review.pdf

 

As you can see its a 35 page report filled with facts and findings. This was for a 1 incident that occurred last month.

 

To this day, I believe that PSU has yet to release any sort of information. Do you not find that odd?

 

Nope, they're all a bunch of s***head and Paterno did nothing about it. He was part of the culture that aided and abetted a child rapist.

[StrangeSox]

My guess is that Paterno's failure was not the worst act committed by PSU

 

Cool, absolutely no one in this thread has ever disagreed with this.

[Soxbadger]

Who is arguing that it excuses Joe Paterno?

 

My concern is that when a disproportionate amount of rage/blame is placed on Paterno, people begin to forget that there may have been a systematic cover up by PSU. Paterno is dead, hes the past, it does no good to keep on Paterno, focus needs to be shifted.

 

I guess thats my point, saying f*** Paterno isnt going to help, it wont hurt, but I guess Id rather focus on trying to get to the bottom of this mess, than keep repeating "Joe Paterno is bad."

 

But thats just me, seems a lot of people prefer just yelling about Paterno and not really discussing what happened and why is PSU still not doing much. Paterno is dead, no one can say that the reason PSU still has yet to release a report is because of Paterno. In fact, why is no one asking about the fact that PSU did nothing for X years while a grand jury was investigating Sandusky.

Edited January 25, 2012 by Soxbadger

[DrunkBomber]

Who is arguing that it excuses Joe Paterno?

 

My concern is that when a disproportionate amount of rage/blame is placed on Paterno, people begin to forget that there may have been a systematic cover up by PSU. Paterno is dead, hes the past, it does no good to keep on Paterno, focus needs to be shifted.

 

I guess thats my point, saying f*** Paterno isnt going to help, it wont hurt, but I guess Id rather focus on trying to get to the bottom of this mess, than keep repeating "Joe Paterno is bad."

 

But thats just me, seems a lot of people prefer just yelling about Paterno and not really discussing what happened and why is PSU still not doing much. Paterno is dead, no one can say that the reason PSU still has yet to release a report is because of Paterno. In fact, why is no one asking about the fact that PSU did nothing for X years while a grand jury was investigating Sandusky.

Its not much different than hearing people say "Paterno wasnt the biggest villain in this case" over and over when nobody is even saying that.

[LittleHurt05]

Jerry Sandusky: I’ll Never Forget All The Things Joe Paterno Did For Me

[Soxbadger]

Drunkbomber,

 

When an article titled "f*** Joe Paterno" is posted, where Sandusky is mentioned 1 time, compared to 15 times by Paterno, it appears to me that a disproportionate amount of blame is being placed on Paterno.

 

Remember, my comments are a response to the article "f*** Joe Paterno", where Paterno's name was used 15+ times, Sandusky's 1 time and the man who actually raped the girl who wrote the article, his name was mentioned 0 times.

 

If you disagree and think the article isnt doing that, its fine, but that was my reaction to reading the article "f*** Joe Paterno".

[DrunkBomber]

Drunkbomber,

 

When an article titled "f*** Joe Paterno" is posted, where Sandusky is mentioned 1 time, compared to 15 times by Paterno, it appears to me that a disproportionate amount of blame is being placed on Paterno.

 

Remember, my comments are a response to the article "f*** Joe Paterno", where Paterno's name was used 15+ times, Sandusky's 1 time and the man who actually raped the girl who wrote the article, his name was mentioned 0 times.

 

If you disagree and think the article isnt doing that, its fine, but that was my reaction to reading the article "f*** Joe Paterno".

But the article is about Paterno, it isnt about the entire case. I think youd be hard pressed to find any reasonable person in the entire world who puts more blame on Paterno then Sandusky. Not even the author is saying that.

[G&T]

G&T,

 

Where have I ignored anything? I simply have said that I do not believe that Paterno was the puppet master here and that if it was up to me, I would keep digging and digging until I went over every piece of evidence starting at least as early as the first report to the Pennsylvania police.

 

The position you have taken is that Paterno did what he was supposed to do. In fact you said this:

 

Blame Paterno, dance on his grave, but be honest, he didnt rape anyone, he (to the best of my knowledge) never even witnessed a crime and he did report it to the supervisor of campus police. If that is not enough for you, that is fine, you are entitled to your opinion.

 

That's ignoring the power he had. And no, that is not enough for me.

 

That statement just isnt really true. By your own facts, PSU had asked Paterno to resign 7 years ago. So for the last 7 years, PSU really didnt want Paterno around, they just didnt want to deal with the fall out of getting rid of one of the most beloved coaches and someone who personally donated a lot of money to the school. This incident, gave them 1) the opportunity to get rid of Paterno and 2) the opportunity to use Paterno as a shield for the Trustees and University.

 

If Paterno was 40 years old and coming off a NC season, he is still the PSU coach, that I am confident in. The only reason they got rid of Paterno was that they had wanted to for a long time, and just couldnt deal with the negative publicity. This gave them that chance.

 

Only reason, huh? ok.

 

That's a leap to say they didn't want him around. They didn't want him coaching. There's a difference between being a coach and being the face of the program he built for fund raising purposes. I really don't know how you can believe that someone who brought in that much money didn't have power.

 

Not sure that Ive implied or said that.

 

well you said you wanted evidence of power over trustees. Where else is that going to be?