Steve9347 Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 This is so f***ed up. Badger should tell me more about there not being a cover up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 No Steve, lets set the record straight. While you were busy believing that Paterno was the most powerful man in Pennsylvania and that it was all Paterno, I was the only one saying that there was no way it was just Paterno, and that Paterno was being used as a scapegoat to cover up for more powerful people. Lets start at the beginning, in early November, I was already saying that it was Penn State, not Paterno. Nov 9, 2011 -> 12:12 PM Milkman, Hard to fire an employee when you as the employer are far more responsible. Thats why they are going to let him retire. Paterno reported it to his supervisors, firing him is a classic case of kicking your dog because you screwed something up. Nov 9, 2011 -> 10:59 PM It doesnt matter anymore, but had Paterno's superiors followed the law, we wouldnt be having this conversation. It was the superiors who committed the criminal acts. Nov 9, 2011 -> 11:18 PM Paterno is taking the fall for PSU, Im not sure why more people dont see this. PSU is the one who failed here. Nov 9, 2011 -> 11:24 PM The first time they screwed him by not following the law and now they are screwing him by pretending that they are now concerned about an incident that happened 9 years ago. Once again PSU has known what Paterno did since 2002, if it was such a bad offense, why was he only fired now? This isnt news to PSU board of trustees, you dont think they were aware of the facts while the grand jury was going on? AND THE MOST IMPORTANT ONE: Nov 9, 2011 -> 11:40 PM Its pretty improbable that the BOT was in the dark about such a serious situation. Especially when people like Paterno start getting summoned to grand juries. They at least knew about it while the investigation was going on, so if they knew Paterno did not report it to the police 5 months ago, a year ago, 9 years ago, why are they only firing him now? The answer is because they want to diffuse the situation and most people are going to be satisfied with the sacrificial lamb, Paterno. No one at PSU wants the real question to be asked, How did you let this happen. How could Penn State not know what is going on, how could they have so little control that they dont even know about an ex coach raping kids in a locker room. That is what should be the most troublesome. That all of these incidents occurred and PSU is basically taking the position only 3 people knew. That just cant be. Jan 25, 2012 -> 07:47 PM If you disagree that there should be more investigations into PSU and that there should be an independent investigation that is not being paid for by the PSU trustees, then attack me, and say how stupid I am for wanting a better investigation so that we can catch more people who were responsible. Because otherwise, I just dont understand what the deal is. Paterno is dead, you cant get blood from a stone. But right now, there are likely people who played a role in this, who are sitting comfortably in their homes, not worried because no one seems to care about getting to the bottom. So on November 9, when I clearly said it was my belief that there was a cover up and it just wasnt 3 people, where were you? You were busy eating up all the Joe Paterno hating, so very willing to crucify Paterno, not even caring that it was pretty apparent he was nothing more than a scapegoat. But hey, there are things you can attack me for, I stood up for Paterno's right to have a fair trial, I argued that you cant rely on a grand jury indictment, that Paterno wasnt as powerful as people thought. There are probably 50-100 posts in this thread where you can verbatim attack me, and I welcome it. But if you just want to completely lie and distort the truth to try and completely change the fact that I was the one saying there was a cover up, there is nothing I can say, because that is just false. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Feb 8, 2012 -> 12:06 PM) No Steve, lets set the record straight. While you were busy believing that Paterno was the most powerful man in Pennsylvania and that it was all Paterno, I was the only one saying that there was no way it was just Paterno, and that Paterno was being used as a scapegoat to cover up for more powerful people. this zombie argument will never die Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Youll have to inform me what a zombia argument is as I am not familiar with the term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Feb 8, 2012 -> 12:12 PM) Youll have to inform me what a zombia argument is as I am not familiar with the term. I would imagine it's an argument that won't die. Dude. No one ever, not once, said that Joe Paterno was the only part of a possible cover-up. He, however, was a huge part of it and the most influential man on campus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Feb 8, 2012 -> 12:35 PM) I would imagine it's an argument that won't die. Dude. No one ever, not once, said that Joe Paterno was the only part of a possible cover-up. He, however, was a huge part of it and the most influential man on campus. Yup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Feb 8, 2012 -> 12:06 PM) No Steve, lets set the record straight. While you were busy believing that Paterno was the most powerful man in Pennsylvania and that it was all Paterno, I was the only one saying that there was no way it was just Paterno, and that Paterno was being used as a scapegoat to cover up for more powerful people. Wrong. Please find me a post where someone says that Paterno is the only one to blame and no one else at PSU or in State College or anywhere else is to blame. The reason Paterno has been blamed so much in this thread is in direct response to all of the posters praising him, the media acting like he did nothing wrong, the people of PSU trying to canonize him, which angers people who think he should have done a hell of a lot more. If people weren't trying to support JoePa so much, then he wouldn't be the main part of the discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Feb 8, 2012 -> 12:12 PM) Youll have to inform me what a zombia argument is as I am not familiar with the term. An argument that is soundly refuted but rises from the dead down the road, mindlessly ambling along towards the next victim, no awareness of what transpired before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 This was 100% Paterno's fault. I bet the whole Sandusky thing is just cover for Paterno, anyway. Everything was entirely done by Paterno. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Feb 7, 2012 -> 09:36 PM) I reiterate my early "burn it to the ground" comment. I'm guessing you didn't mean this thread, which of course is back on fire again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 (edited) Strangesox, That wasnt the point of my last post. That was merely in reference to people who continue to state that Paterno is "the most influential man on campus" , when in my opinion there is likely someone more powerful than Paterno. Regardless, if everyone wants to say that they have been in agreement and that there is a bigger cover up, that is fine with me. But, my argument was with regard to the statement: Badger should tell me more about there not being a cover up. Which is completely false. And that is not a zombie argument, because Steve for absolutely no reason and without any provocation, decided to post something that is completely fabricated. The rest was just window dressing, my comment was entirely about Steve's post and how completely distorted it is. Edited February 8, 2012 by Soxbadger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 I think we can all agree that Steve is a jerk, so no need to argue there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Feb 8, 2012 -> 01:42 PM) I think we can all agree that Steve is a jerk, so no need to argue there. Agreed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Oh, no doubt about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 It seems like we agree that if . . . People were not defending him so much, other people would not attack him so much. and If people didn't attack him so much, he wouldn't be defended so much. Now for something we won't agree on . . . IMNSHO there are plenty of people with more knowledge of the attacks and/or more institutional/positional power and authority than the head football coach. Those people with more positional power and more knowledge are mentioned much less, and blamed far less, than the head football coach. And I will lose even more agreement with this And the head football coach is held more accountable because he is the winningest coach in NCAA Division 1 football. Somehow winning football games elevates him to another level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 QUOTE (Tex @ Feb 9, 2012 -> 05:03 PM) IMNSHO there are plenty of people with more knowledge of the attacks and/or more institutional/positional power and authority than the head football coach. Those people with more positional power and more knowledge are mentioned much less, and blamed far less, than the head football coach. With the exception of the fact that the 2 key guys above his head are facing charges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 QUOTE (Tex @ Feb 9, 2012 -> 04:03 PM) Somehow winning football games elevates him to another level. This is absolutely correct, you're just arguing the wrong side of it. Because he won football games he somehow got elevated to god status by some people and that's the only reason some defend this idiot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Feb 9, 2012 -> 05:20 PM) This is absolutely correct, you're just arguing the wrong side of it. Because he won football games he somehow got elevated to god status by some people and that's the only reason some defend this idiot. That's not the only thing that happened here because of football. There's an old comic book saying..."With great power comes great responsibility". Because of Joe Paterno's football record, he had enormous power nationally, and anyone he chose to associate with was granted some of that power. Jerry Sandusky was able to found a charity for kids because he was Joe Paterno's assistant coach. When he was able to get high ranking people in PA society on its board of directors, he was able to do that because of Joe Paterno and Penn State's credibility. He made use of Joe Paterno's power to build up his web. He took advantage of Joe Paterno's name and credibility...and Joe Paterno never put a stop to it, beyond a meaningless "Stop bringing boys to campus" which was never paid attention to anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Did you happen to look at the people who served on the charity's board? So why is it that people prefer to talk about the head football coach's involvement more so than eye witnesses? How much ink has been spilled discussing an eye witness who leaves without calling the police, contacts his dad for advice, before contacting the head football coach? Whose stories contradict each other over what he saw and what he eventually reported. Now check out how much ink talks about Paterno. How much ink has been used to discuss Mrs. Sandusky who was in the house and heard signs of abuse, and did nothing. But people would rather argue Paterno's involvement. Seems lopsided to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 9, 2012 -> 04:13 PM) With the exception of the fact that the 2 key guys above his head are facing charges. Thank you, you've added to my point that they are discussed less. Even facing charges, the law also holding them responsible, we'd rather debate the football coach's role. Seems lopsided to me. The person that told him was an eyewitness, not much to talk about there. The people with higher positions than him are facing charges, not much to talk about there. We talk about the head football coach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 QUOTE (Tex @ Feb 10, 2012 -> 09:55 AM) Did you happen to look at the people who served on the charity's board? So why is it that people prefer to talk about the head football coach's involvement more so than eye witnesses? How much ink has been spilled discussing an eye witness who leaves without calling the police, contacts his dad for advice, before contacting the head football coach? Whose stories contradict each other over what he saw and what he eventually reported. Now check out how much ink talks about Paterno. How much ink has been used to discuss Mrs. Sandusky who was in the house and heard signs of abuse, and did nothing. But people would rather argue Paterno's involvement. Seems lopsided to me. Has anybody on TV talked about how great of a person Mrs. Sandusky is? Did anyone paint a halo over a painting of PSU's ex-president? If Mike McQueary were to die tomorrow, would the national media write columns saying, "He made one colossal mistake, but don't judge him just on that"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 QUOTE (Tex @ Feb 10, 2012 -> 10:55 AM) Did you happen to look at the people who served on the charity's board? If any of them actually had any inkling of the things paterno was told, and also did nothing, then they deserve to be pariahs for their lives, just like Paterno should have been. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 So in the interest of correcting and balancing an incorrect portrait of Paterno as a saint, we should also paint an equally incorrect portrait of Paterno as the devil himself? I am certain the people who were eye witnesses or who actually abused kids are happy for the sideshow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 QUOTE (Tex @ Feb 10, 2012 -> 10:24 AM) So in the interest of correcting and balancing an incorrect portrait of Paterno as a saint, we should also paint an equally incorrect portrait of Paterno as the devil himself? I am certain the people who were eye witnesses or who actually abused kids are happy for the sideshow. Holy s***, guy. Does your contrarian facade know no end? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 It's really not fair that the media arbitrarily picked one person and catapulted them into the spotlight like they did with this Joseph Pattern guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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