WHITESOXRANDY Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 A. Ken Williams does not do "complete rebuilds". B. There is very little to rebuild with. The way that this franchise goes about their business is not changing. They are not dedicating resources to sign loads of Latin players, accumulate draft picks, add the best scouts and invest lots of money in young players. They don't do that. Therefore, nothing is changing. KW is still all in for 2012 with as much as he can get Jerry to spend. And, it will be that way until he's gone. And, probably until Jerry is gone. Maybe longer. Don't expect this franchise to be run right. Savor the 2005 season all you can! Watch the videos again and again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 QUOTE (DirtySox @ Nov 11, 2011 -> 04:40 PM) I like this post. It's funny that people think they can maintain the status quo and all of a sudden the farm is going to get better. I'm fine with multiple down seasons if the organization addresses the issues that are apparent to almost everyone. Though, I'll wager the organization continues to be in between while denying any problems exist. I'm with Marty on this one. QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Nov 11, 2011 -> 04:52 PM) But it's better to go into every season thinking you have a chance. Doesn't matter how many times you come up short, or in our case, wayyyyyyyyyy short. I'd love to be the Nationals right now. QUOTE (WHITESOXRANDY @ Nov 11, 2011 -> 05:33 PM) A. Ken Williams does not do "complete rebuilds". B. There is very little to rebuild with. The way that this franchise goes about their business is not changing. They are not dedicating resources to sign loads of Latin players, accumulate draft picks, add the best scouts and invest lots of money in young players. They don't do that. Therefore, nothing is changing. KW is still all in for 2012 with as much as he can get Jerry to spend. And, it will be that way until he's gone. And, probably until Jerry is gone. Maybe longer. Don't expect this franchise to be run right. Savor the 2005 season all you can! Watch the videos again and again. Yup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 QUOTE (LVSoxFan @ Nov 11, 2011 -> 03:55 PM) Hasn't this been the case for years? KW seems to think that some big FA acquisition will compensate for our total lack of a farm system. Well, how's that been workin' out for ya? Question: when was the last homegrown player we brought up who turned into an every day kind of guy? I asked my co-worker this and the only ones we could think of recently were Buehrle and Crede. We're counting Gordo as a question mark right now. Outside of that, who? Hudson, Young, Carter, Gio, Santos, Gordon, Morel. You asked every day kind of guys. There they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted November 12, 2011 Author Share Posted November 12, 2011 Assuming ~$115M payroll Buehrle comes back @ 4y/$56M Quentin comes back at 1y/$8M SP Buehrle SP Peavy SP Humber SP Sale Deal Danks, Floyd, Thornton, Viciedo focusing on pitching prospects in return. Beckham added to this list with Lillibridge taking over at 2nd? Leaves about $10M to spend on upgrades, 5th starter comes from return on trades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Nov 12, 2011 -> 09:37 AM) Assuming ~$115M payroll Buehrle comes back @ 4y/$56M Quentin comes back at 1y/$8M SP Buehrle SP Peavy SP Humber SP Sale Deal Danks, Floyd, Thornton, Viciedo focusing on pitching prospects in return. Beckham added to this list with Lillibridge taking over at 2nd? Leaves about $10M to spend on upgrades, 5th starter comes from return on trades. Hello 3rd place again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (Marty34 @ Nov 12, 2011 -> 10:37 AM) Assuming ~$115M payroll Buehrle comes back @ 4y/$56M Quentin comes back at 1y/$8M SP Buehrle SP Peavy SP Humber SP Sale Deal Danks, Floyd, Thornton, Viciedo focusing on pitching prospects in return. Beckham added to this list with Lillibridge taking over at 2nd? Leaves about $10M to spend on upgrades, 5th starter comes from return on trades. Trading Viciedo is pure insanity. We have maybe one guy in our minor league system, Trayce Thompson, that projects to be a middle of the order bat and he's extremely raw and hasn't done anything yet to feel confident in him. We desperately need Viciedo to develop into a #3 or #4 hitter by the time Konerko's contract is done or we will be f***ed offensively. I get your love for pitching prospects, but trading Viciedo for them would be a fireable offense IMO. Edited November 12, 2011 by Chicago White Sox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted November 12, 2011 Author Share Posted November 12, 2011 QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Nov 12, 2011 -> 10:10 AM) Hello 3rd place again. Is there a better solution? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Nov 12, 2011 -> 10:14 AM) Is there a better solution? Just don't bank a $115 million payroll on that team, because JR will never come close to spending that much again since it would have gotten us nowhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Nov 11, 2011 -> 04:52 PM) But it's better to go into every season thinking you have a chance. Doesn't matter how many times you come up short, or in our case, wayyyyyyyyyy short. I'd love to be the Nationals right now. We can do it the Nationals way. Wait until the best prospects of our generation are available, then lose 100+ games those two seasons to get the #1 overall pick. And don't make the playoffs for 30 years while you are at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted November 12, 2011 Author Share Posted November 12, 2011 QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Nov 12, 2011 -> 10:14 AM) Trading Viciedo is pure insanity. We have maybe one guy in our minor league system, Trayce Thompson, that projects to be a middle of the order bat and he's extremely raw and hasn't done anything yet to feel confident in him. We desperately need Viciedo to develop into a #3 or #4 hitter by the time Konerko's contract is done or we will be f***ed offensively. I get your love for pitching prospects, but trading Viciedo for them would be a fireable IMO. You have to give something to get something. Viciedo would be able to net a better return than Quentin. Hopefully they find a couple starters in those trades to go along with Buehrle and Sale. With the payroll in 2013 $75M they'd have plenty of resources to find an impact bat and fill a few other needs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Nov 12, 2011 -> 10:37 AM) Deal Danks, Floyd, Thornton, Viciedo focusing on pitching prospects in return. Beckham added to this list with Lillibridge taking over at 2nd? Viciedo and Beckham both dealt for scraps, Lillibridge taking over as a full time starter? yeesh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Nov 12, 2011 -> 11:27 AM) You have to give something to get something. Viciedo would be able to net a better return than Quentin. Hopefully they find a couple starters in those trades to go along with Buehrle and Sale. With the payroll in 2013 $75M they'd have plenty of resources to find an impact bat and fill a few other needs. While this is likely true, it's also worth noting that any return for either of them will not contribute this year, while Viciedo should do so. Your plan takes the team from, in your opinion, having little pitching for 2013, to having effectively zero offensive threats in 2013. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted November 12, 2011 Author Share Posted November 12, 2011 QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Nov 12, 2011 -> 10:18 AM) Just don't bank a $115 million payroll on that team, because JR will never come close to spending that much again since it would have gotten us nowhere. I don't understand what you'd rather do? To me going into the 2012 season with Sale Buehrle, a couple of good pitching prospects and a $75M payroll is appealing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted November 12, 2011 Author Share Posted November 12, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 12, 2011 -> 10:29 AM) While this is likely true, it's also worth noting that any return for either of them will not contribute this year, while Viciedo should do so. Your plan takes the team from, in your opinion, having little pitching for 2013, to having effectively zero offensive threats in 2013. Quentin could have a better year than Viciedo in 2012 so not having Viciedo next year might not be a loss. As far as 2013 goes they'd have money to spend to upgrade the offense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Nov 12, 2011 -> 11:40 AM) Quentin could have a better year than Viciedo in 2012 so not having Viciedo next year might not be a loss. As far as 2013 goes they'd have money to spend to upgrade the offense. And Quentin will get hurt next year, so having no backup OF is going to leave us with a Rios/De Aza/Danks2 OF for at least part of the year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted November 12, 2011 Author Share Posted November 12, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 12, 2011 -> 10:50 AM) And Quentin will get hurt next year, so having no backup OF is going to leave us with a Rios/De Aza/Danks2 OF for at least part of the year. That's ok. Viciedo has questions too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Nov 12, 2011 -> 11:57 AM) That's ok. Viciedo has questions too. So we'll keep the expensive one who become a free agent next year and get rid of the inexpensive one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted November 12, 2011 Author Share Posted November 12, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 12, 2011 -> 11:00 AM) So we'll keep the expensive one who become a free agent next year and get rid of the inexpensive one. Absolutely. Because Viciedo's trade value is higher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Nov 12, 2011 -> 12:05 PM) Absolutely. Because Viciedo's trade value is higher. So, you've been confusingly concerned about teh 2013 starting rotation and to solve that problem, you're going to trade Viciedo, leaving the 2013 roster with Rios and De Aza as the starting OF's. You don't see the issue there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted November 12, 2011 Author Share Posted November 12, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 12, 2011 -> 11:09 AM) So, you've been confusingly concerned about teh 2013 starting rotation and to solve that problem, you're going to trade Viciedo, leaving the 2013 roster with Rios and De Aza as the starting OF's. You don't see the issue there? You don't understand the plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord chas Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 What draft picks would we get if MB walks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Nov 12, 2011 -> 10:10 AM) Hello 3rd place again. I truly think that's inevitable. What we're looking at right now is the same thing we do every trade deadline. We think we have a chance when we really don't have much of one at all. We should be focusing on the future, not clinging to a false hope that we're still in this thing. I know we're not in a good position to fully rebuild with the contracts of Dunn and Rios, but we're not in a position to compete either, IMO. We should start taking bids on every single guy that will draw interest besides guys like Sale, De Aza, Viciedo, Morel, etc. Let Dunn and Rios ride out their contracts or trade them if someone is stupid enough to take them, and continue to build up young talent. It's going to take years, but these are years where we won't be competing anyway. Imagine if we had started to rebuild with that horrendous 2007 team. We'd be on our 5th year. It's true that we might not have done a good job of it, but we also might be 5 years into a successful rebuild. We just refuse to accept the truth that we're not going to be serious contenders. Edited November 12, 2011 by Milkman delivers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 QUOTE (lord chas @ Nov 12, 2011 -> 12:36 PM) What draft picks would we get if MB walks? Right now we're not 100% sure because that could change upon MLB signing a new CBA. If the rules continue where they were, we would receive 1 sandwich-round pick, and that is all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Nov 12, 2011 -> 11:13 AM) You don't understand the plan. To be fair, nobody does. QUOTE (lord chas @ Nov 12, 2011 -> 11:36 AM) What draft picks would we get if MB walks? He's a Type B free agent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Nov 12, 2011 -> 09:37 AM) Assuming ~$115M payroll Buehrle comes back @ 4y/$56M Quentin comes back at 1y/$8M SP Buehrle SP Peavy SP Humber SP Sale Deal Danks, Floyd, Thornton, Viciedo focusing on pitching prospects in return. Beckham added to this list with Lillibridge taking over at 2nd? Leaves about $10M to spend on upgrades, 5th starter comes from return on trades. So I take it you can't name any teams that have actually acheived what you want done, in the time period we are talking about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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