Balta1701 Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Nov 12, 2011 -> 06:09 PM) '93-'94 Frank Thomas The reason I never go with a Frank comparison (or Pujols/Cabrera/etc.) with Viciedo is I don't think he'll ever have that kind of patience and eye. He might well push 50-75 BB in a season, but the way he'll get there is by having pitchers too scared to throw to him, not by controlling the strike zone like Frank. The reason I always come back to Vlad is that I think Viciedo has it in him to become an excellent bad ball/pitchers pitch hitter. If he learns how to control that bat, then it's going to be really hard to get him out anywhere in the strike zone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Nov 12, 2011 -> 01:12 PM) Right. I don't care to research it either. Mostly because what you are expecting, has never actually happened. It is an impossible standard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted November 13, 2011 Author Share Posted November 13, 2011 QUOTE (sircaffey @ Nov 12, 2011 -> 05:05 PM) The Vlad ceiling comp is ridiculous. Unbelievably ridiculous and '93-'94 Thomas? There is just no basis for that ceiling. Nobody thinks that high of Viciedo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Nov 13, 2011 -> 08:48 AM) Unbelievably ridiculous and '93-'94 Thomas? There is just no basis for that ceiling. Nobody thinks that high of Viciedo. Me was not serious when I referenced the best player in White Sox history. It's apparent that you don't think much of Viciedo and want him traded. Just stick with that. Don't ask for comparisons because ultimately you're not going change your mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted November 13, 2011 Author Share Posted November 13, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Nov 13, 2011 -> 02:43 PM) Me was not serious when I referenced the best player in White Sox history. It's apparent that you don't think much of Viciedo and want him traded. Just stick with that. Don't ask for comparisons because ultimately you're not going change your mind. To the contrary. I think he has a lot of value and would be able to net a very good pitching prospect in return. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Nov 13, 2011 -> 03:32 PM) To the contrary. I think he has a lot of value and would be able to net a very good pitching prospect in return. And that's why you trade CQ or Danks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted November 13, 2011 Author Share Posted November 13, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Nov 13, 2011 -> 03:34 PM) And that's why you trade CQ or Danks. Trade Danks, re-sign Quentin for a year and deal at the deadline if they aren't in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Nov 13, 2011 -> 04:00 PM) Trade Danks, re-sign Quentin for a year and deal at the deadline if they aren't in it. I really don't think things are this simple. First, you try to extend Danks to a somewhat reasonable deal. If a deal can't be worked out, which seems likely, then you gauge his trade value on the market. You also see what Floyd, Quentin, and Thornton are worth. If you get the right offer, then you move any and all these guys (although I wouldn't trade both Floyd and Danks). There's no reason to give any of these guys away during the off-season. You can always explore moving these guys at the deadline. In a perfect world, we resign Beurhle and extend Danks. That allows you to move Floyd, who should have fairly good value this off-season. That leaves you with a 2012 rotation of Beurhle, Danks, Peavy, Humber, and Sale. Stewart opens the season in AAA and serves as insurance in case anyone goes down or Humber or Sale struggle. He'd also be the guy targeted to replace Peavy in 2013. This would give us five starters to potentially build around long-term, with only two of them earning big money. Unfortunately, I don't see Danks agreeing to an extension we'd willing be to do, but trying to work out deals with him and Beurhle should our priorities, as I agree the long-term pitching situation looks ugly without them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiderman Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 11:21 AM) If Buehrle goes do they tear it all down? I think they do and every player should be available. Fine, but who takes Peavy, Rios and Dunn? Secondly, does losing Mark Buerhle from a losing team mean the GM should tear it all down? Shouldn't not being a good team with him result in that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiderman Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 QUOTE (fathom @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 11:24 AM) With all the teams interested in Buehrle now, there's no doubt in my mind that it's best if Sox let him go. He is going to get more money than the team can afford with the rest of the budget issues. Use that money to extend Danks. Correct, if the Sox are being hindered by payroll restrictions, and can only afford to extend one pitcher, the obvious answer is John Danks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiderman Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 QUOTE (flavum @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 11:26 AM) Uh...no. You have Peavy, Danks, and Floyd in their contract years, Humber and Sale, and a pretty decent bullpen. Along with unmovable contracts in Dunn and Rios. They try to win next year by having everything go right. If it doesn't, they have the trade deadline and next offseason to continue the dismantling. Will it suck to have Buehrle leave? Yeah, kind of. But by no means do I want them to give him 3 guaranteed years at this point. Pretty much, they have to hope that Rios and Dunn rebound to fix the offense, and just enough pitching to stay competitve if the offense can turn things around. I don't expect the Sox to sign any significant free agents, perhaps they go back to an old formula and add a player coming off an injury and/or down year, and they don't have much in the minors so the major league roster will just need to play better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiderman Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 QUOTE (2nd_city_saint787 @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 11:27 AM) why when you still potentially have Danks Floyd Sale Peavy Humber/Stewart/Axlerod/ maybe someone they get in a CQ trade? beat me to it Flavum I don't think that's more than an average rotation to be honest. You can't count on starters #3 through #5 (and I love Sale). Floyd and Danks are pretty solid, but both need to be dropped down a notch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 QUOTE (spiderman @ Nov 13, 2011 -> 10:42 PM) I don't think that's more than an average rotation to be honest. You can't count on starters #3 through #5 (and I love Sale). Floyd and Danks are pretty solid, but both need to be dropped down a notch. The real problem is...we're not going to have a lot of people we can "Count on" next year in any case. We could do everything that people want with the rotation; resign Mark, keep Danks and Floyd, go with Sale/Peavy/Humber for the last 2 spots, repeat the "All in" slogan ad nauseum again, and still we might well have a DH putting up a .550 OPS next year and a CF making that look good, all for $26 million again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted November 15, 2011 Author Share Posted November 15, 2011 QUOTE (spiderman @ Nov 13, 2011 -> 09:37 PM) Correct, if the Sox are being hindered by payroll restrictions, and can only afford to extend one pitcher, the obvious answer is John Danks. I don't know. Buehrle will be cheaper than Danks and you can deal Danks. $50M for Buehrle + talent acquired for Danks is I think a better deal for the Sox than $70M for Danks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHITESOXRANDY Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 If next year flops - last year was bad with the same cast of characters - what do they have left to rebuild with? You must mean "when next year flops". Buehrle gone, rotation takes huge hit. Detroit, Cleveland and K.C. will clearly be better than last year and their futures are far brighter than the Sox. Therefore, the Sox ain't winning anything for a long time no matter what they do so the INTELLIGENT thing to do is start a proper and long rebuilding process now. Ofcourse, the Sox will continue to try to fool the fans into thinking that they have a chance to be real good every year without rebuilding because they are petrified of a drop in ticket sales. In other words, they don't have the balls to do what's right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHITESOXRANDY Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 (edited) The Vlad ceiling comp is ridiculous. + 1 But, Dylan Axelrod looks like he could be the next Bob Gibson. Edited November 16, 2011 by WHITESOXRANDY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 QUOTE (WHITESOXRANDY @ Nov 16, 2011 -> 01:58 PM) You must mean "when next year flops". Buehrle gone, rotation takes huge hit. Detroit, Cleveland and K.C. will clearly be better than last year and their futures are far brighter than the Sox. Therefore, the Sox ain't winning anything for a long time no matter what they do so the INTELLIGENT thing to do is start a proper and long rebuilding process now. Ofcourse, the Sox will continue to try to fool the fans into thinking that they have a chance to be real good every year without rebuilding because they are petrified of a drop in ticket sales. In other words, they don't have the balls to do what's right. Perfectly said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 QUOTE (WHITESOXRANDY @ Nov 16, 2011 -> 02:59 PM) + 1 But, Dylan Axelrod looks like he could be the next Bob Gibson. Yeah, there's no difference between the expectations for the supposed best hitting prospect to come out of Cuba ever and Dylan Axelrod. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 17, 2011 -> 12:28 PM) Yeah, there's no difference between the expectations for the supposed best hitting prospect to come out of Cuba ever and Dylan Axelrod. I don't think Minnie Minoso has much of a future though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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