Milwaukee Brewers win bidding for Norichika Aoki

[beck72]

Just saw this.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseb...0,1293446.story

 

Why not go the free agent route with a Shane Victorino type CFer? Of course they have to have the best bid. And I'm not sure what other teams would be in the market for a guy like Norichika Aoki. But having De Aza at the top of the order, along with Rios and Viciedo in the OF, doesn't bring me confidence that the sox can get any higher than 3rd place next year. Especially as the pitching is likely going to take a hit, with Mark gone and likely one of Danks/ Floyd dealt. The offense is still going to need some new blood. Even the trade route probably won't net a guy like Aoki-only a guy who might be like Aoki in 3, 4 years.

 

 

[witesoxfan]

Looking at Nishioka (they should have seen that coming), Kaz Matsui, and Iguchi, he compares favorably well. Hideki Matsui is far superior, but Aoki isn't bad, relatively speaking.

 

That said, this is not a team that needs to spend more money on outfielders. Quite frankly, they don't NEED anymore outfielders. They need young talent wherever they can get it, but they don't need to spend the $30 million posting fee it's going to cost to get this guy and then trying to find room for him in this outfield.

 

And, when I say "outfielders" and "this outfield," I am NOT including Carlos Quentin.

 

But you tell me, since you suggested it...how would you fit Aoki into an outfield that currently consists of De Aza, Rios, Viciedo, and Lillibridge? Nevermind the fact that Williams will either sign someone he likes (probably a f***ing grinder) or will fall in love with someone during spring training to whom he signed to a minor league contract and that player will make the team and make the major league roster only to be demoted 4 days later never to be seen again.

 

(that final part is not a protest that I wanted Lastings Milledge on the MLB roster...Brent Lillibridge absolutely earned his spot on that roster and was an incredibly bright spot in an otherwise boring season. It's just a matter of thinking on Williams' level, and while I have no problem with him as GM and Senior VP of whatever his actual title is, I just sort of know how he operates, and he falls in love with these guys too. Erstad was probably the last time Williams and Guillen agreed, and that was the worst Sox year of my life)

[southsider2k5]

Just saw this.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseb...0,1293446.story

 

Why not go the free agent route with a Shane Victorino type CFer? Of course they have to have the best bid. And I'm not sure what other teams would be in the market for a guy like Norichika Aoki. But having De Aza at the top of the order, along with Rios and Viciedo in the OF, doesn't bring me confidence that the sox can get any higher than 3rd place next year. Especially as the pitching is likely going to take a hit, with Mark gone and likely one of Danks/ Floyd dealt. The offense is still going to need some new blood. Even the trade route probably won't net a guy like Aoki-only a guy who might be like Aoki in 3, 4 years.

 

If they wanted to spend money on this team, there are way better ways to do it.

[Balta1701]

Wouldn't like having to pay the posting fee, and really really want to see what De Aza can do.

[beck72]

Looking at Nishioka (they should have seen that coming), Kaz Matsui, and Iguchi, he compares favorably well. Hideki Matsui is far superior, but Aoki isn't bad, relatively speaking.

 

That said, this is not a team that needs to spend more money on outfielders. Quite frankly, they don't NEED anymore outfielders. They need young talent wherever they can get it, but they don't need to spend the $30 million posting fee it's going to cost to get this guy and then trying to find room for him in this outfield.

 

And, when I say "outfielders" and "this outfield," I am NOT including Carlos Quentin.

 

But you tell me, since you suggested it...how would you fit Aoki into an outfield that currently consists of De Aza, Rios, Viciedo, and Lillibridge? Nevermind the fact that Williams will either sign someone he likes (probably a f***ing grinder) or will fall in love with someone during spring training to whom he signed to a minor league contract and that player will make the team and make the major league roster only to be demoted 4 days later never to be seen again.

 

(that final part is not a protest that I wanted Lastings Milledge on the MLB roster...Brent Lillibridge absolutely earned his spot on that roster and was an incredibly bright spot in an otherwise boring season. It's just a matter of thinking on Williams' level, and while I have no problem with him as GM and Senior VP of whatever his actual title is, I just sort of know how he operates, and he falls in love with these guys too. Erstad was probably the last time Williams and Guillen agreed, and that was the worst Sox year of my life)

It's my belief the sox need to build around a guy like Aoki-a .300 hitter, with speed, defense and OBP. They can build power and RH bats around him-which they have a lot of. Which is what the Keenyn Walker and Jared Mitchell picks seemed to be based on. Whether he's it or not, remains to be seen. And worth the cost. Not sure what the posting fee would be.

 

De Aza is a low cost gamble. But he's likely a 4th OFer along with Brent. Rios would be in LF and Dayan in RF. This way, they could still contend with the young guys like Beckham, Morel and Dayan, and trade some pieces to also get younger talent

 

If the sox stick with what they have, they'll simply be a .500 team. They might as well trade most everyone and blow it up. PK included. But I see a platoon of Brent and DeAza in CF, Rios in LF and Dayan in RF.

 

[Balta1701]

De Aza is a low cost gamble. But he's likely a 4th OFer along with Brent.

I've seen zero that backs this up. De Aza was a fairly highly touted player with the Marlins and earned a starting spot. He then suffered a career threatening injury, which took him several years to recover from. He plays good defense. He has some of the speed you want. He can take a walk. He hits LH. He has hit at every level he's played at, including the big leagues last year. Even if you play games with his numbers and adjust his BABIP last year down to a reasonable level, he still would be putting up decent numbers in the bigs.

[beck72]

I've seen zero that backs this up. De Aza was a fairly highly touted player with the Marlins and earned a starting spot. He then suffered a career threatening injury, which took him several years to recover from. He plays good defense. He has some of the speed you want. He can take a walk. He hits LH. He has hit at every level he's played at, including the big leagues last year. Even if you play games with his numbers and adjust his BABIP last year down to a reasonable level, he still would be putting up decent numbers in the bigs.

De Aza may turn out OK. I'm just tired of the sox thinking they can go cheap at leadoff ala Pierre, and get by without solid .300 hitters at the top, and stick with the long ball hitters. I know those are hard to come by. But the sox lack guys who can hit for avg. and get on base.

[Balta1701]

De Aza may turn out OK. I'm just tired of the sox thinking they can go cheap at leadoff ala Pierre, and get by without solid .300 hitters at the top, and stick with the long ball hitters. I know those are hard to come by. But the sox lack guys who can hit for avg. and get on base.

It's certainly plausible that he could fail, for any number of reasons, but the dude has flat out earned a chance to start next year for this team. You cannot ask for a player to do more to earn a spot than to come up late in the season, play good defense, and destroy the baseball, after having done exactly that at AAA.

[southsider2k5]

De Aza may turn out OK. I'm just tired of the sox thinking they can go cheap at leadoff ala Pierre, and get by without solid .300 hitters at the top, and stick with the long ball hitters. I know those are hard to come by. But the sox lack guys who can hit for avg. and get on base.

 

Who out there fits that description, hell not even Juan does anymore.

[beck72]

Who out there fits that description, hell not even Juan does anymore.

Even if the #1 and 2 hitters don't have speed, the Sox need guys at the top who can hit close to .300 and get on base. Right now, only PK does that. De Aza did it in the minors at an older age.

[beck72]

It's certainly plausible that he could fail, for any number of reasons, but the dude has flat out earned a chance to start next year for this team. You cannot ask for a player to do more to earn a spot than to come up late in the season, play good defense, and destroy the baseball, after having done exactly that at AAA.

I'd be OK if the sox gave De Aza a chance. Yet only if they got another consistent .300 hitter and who can post a high OBP for the 2nd or 3rd spots in the lineup. The sox have too many low OBP guys throughout the lineup-AJ, Alexei, Morel, Beckham, Rios, Dayan [who may hit but still won't take too many BB's].

[Balta1701]

I'd be OK if the sox gave De Aza a chance. Yet only if they got another consistent .300 hitter and who can post a high OBP for the 2nd or 3rd spots in the lineup. The sox have too many low OBP guys throughout the lineup-AJ, Alexei, Morel, Beckham, Rios, Dayan [who may hit but still won't take too many BB's].

This is one case where the Sox really have no option. Morel, Beckham, and Rios are going to at least start the year in the lineup.

 

If none of the 3 step up, then it's highly unlikely the Sox will be competitive anyway, so you might as well play them and try to develop.

[RockRaines]

De Aza may turn out OK. I'm just tired of the sox thinking they can go cheap at leadoff ala Pierre, and get by without solid .300 hitters at the top, and stick with the long ball hitters. I know those are hard to come by. But the sox lack guys who can hit for avg. and get on base.

Im not sure I would classify Juan Pierre as cheap.

 

De Aza will be our leadoff hitter unless a trade goes down, I'm sure of it.

[southsider2k5]

Im not sure I would classify Juan Pierre as cheap.

 

De Aza will be our leadoff hitter unless a trade goes down, I'm sure of it.

 

he will be cheap on this contract.

[Milkman delivers]

It's not fair to eliminate an entire market. That being said, f*** the Japanese market. The vast majority of them are superbusts. I was just forced to make that word up. That's how bad signing anyone from Japan to a significant contract would be.

 

Hideki Matsui and Ichiro Suzuki are the only guys that have come over and been consistently good. After that, the best you're looking at is a year or two of pretty decent play (Tadahito Iguchi) or respectable bench players (So Taguchi).

[beck72]

This is one case where the Sox really have no option. Morel, Beckham, and Rios are going to at least start the year in the lineup.

 

If none of the 3 step up, then it's highly unlikely the Sox will be competitive anyway, so you might as well play them and try to develop.

I'm all for giving Morel, Gordon and Dayan time to develop. They just need help from the vets or outside help who can hit near the top of the lineup so they don't have to carry the load.

[Rowand44]

De Aza is our leadoff hitter, our of is already set, the end.

[iamshack]

It's certainly plausible that he could fail, for any number of reasons, but the dude has flat out earned a chance to start next year for this team. You cannot ask for a player to do more to earn a spot than to come up late in the season, play good defense, and destroy the baseball, after having done exactly that at AAA.

But it's just as easily plausible that a Japanese player could come over here and fail.

 

So all things being equal, why spend the vastly larger sums of money required to take the same gamble?

[Kyyle23]

Even if the #1 and 2 hitters don't have speed, the Sox need guys at the top who can hit close to .300 and get on base. Right now, only PK does that. De Aza did it in the minors at an older age.

 

De Aza has really done it his entire career. I dont know what more you want from him, but everything you are stating you want in the leadoff spot, De Aza can and has done.

 

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/pro...lejandro-De-Aza

 

His leg injury was brutal, it took him a while to come back

[southsider2k5]

But it's just as easily plausible that a Japanese player could come over here and fail.

 

So all things being equal, why spend the vastly larger sums of money required to take the same gamble?

 

Especially when players following a similar path haven't had much success historically.

[Rowand44]

De Aza may turn out OK. I'm just tired of the sox thinking they can go cheap at leadoff ala Pierre, and get by without solid .300 hitters at the top,

It's funny cause you literally just described Juan Pierre here. Pierre was semi close to a .300 hitter while not being cheap whatsoever.

[beck72]

It's funny cause you literally just described Juan Pierre here. Pierre was semi close to a .300 hitter while not being cheap whatsoever.

Pierre's money from the Dodgers made him a reasonable contract. The sox haven't put money/ resources into the top of the lineup for high avg. and OBP guys to hit #1 and #2 for years. They got burned with Swisher and haven't tried since to get top of the line up help or trade for bats. Even then, Swisher wasn't a fit for the top of the lineup. They've done well dealing for pitchers but not bats. And the bats haven't been coming from the minors either. Though Gordon, Morel and Viciedo could change that. Even if the sox traded some major league guys, I'd be hesitant to see what bats come their way as the scouts have been horrible.

[chw42]

De Aza should be productive next year. He had an extremely lucky year with the bat last season. His BABIP at AAA and MLB was .370 and .400 respectively. He's probably not going to repeat that, but even if he doesn't, I think we're looking at a .275/.350/.450 type of hitter. I ran an xBABIP on his 172 PA sample last year and it came out to .329. So he was quite lucky, but after I adjusted everything to the .329 BABIP instead of .404, his triple slash was .273/.354/.461. Add good defense to the mix and he should be a pretty valuable player for us down the road.

[JorgeFabregas]

UZR really liked De Aza's defense last year. Dude put up a 2.8 fangraphs WAR in 54 games. Sure, a lot of that was BABIP, but that's impressive.

[Quin]

UZR really liked De Aza's defense last year. Dude put up a 2.8 fangraphs WAR in 54 games. Sure, a lot of that was BABIP, but that's impressive.

 

Holy f***.