Sox trying to move Thornton

[Chisoxfn]

The picture emerging is of every asset not named Konerko or Ramirez being available. Which means paulie is probably available too.

 

If its going to happen, no half measures. If you deal one piece, look to 2014 and move anyone you can't keep until then, and anyone else you get a great offer for.

And it than begs the question, should Alexei be available. The Sox do have a lot of valuable assets. The problem is they have three of the worse contracts in baseball and a weak farm system that has ultimately cost them the playoffs the past couple of seasons.

[Jordan4life_2007]

And it than begs the question, should Alexei be available. The Sox do have a lot of valuable assets. The problem is they have three of the worse contracts in baseball and a weak farm system that has ultimately cost them the playoffs the past couple of seasons.

 

Even at his age, I wouldn't even entertain dealing Ramirez right now. Maybe if the Sox had a capable replacement a year or so away (I don't like Escobar). The SS inventory in baseball currently is gross. You've basically got the elite: Tulo, Reyes, Hanley; the good: our Ramirez, Andrus, Hardy, Castro, Asdrubal, Yunel, and animal species after that. Alexei also strikes me as one that, as long as he's healthy, will age gracefully.

[iamshack]

And it than begs the question, should Alexei be available. The Sox do have a lot of valuable assets. The problem is they have three of the worse contracts in baseball and a weak farm system that has ultimately cost them the playoffs the past couple of seasons.

I still contend that most of you guys are on the wrong track here.

 

You've got $75 million or so committed to the payroll, basically, no matter what you do, correct?

 

It'll be a cold day in hell when you dump all your meaningful players to keep a $75 million payroll for a horrendous team.

 

They're going to trim the payroll to a reasonable level. That may mean trading some of the key performers, simply because you've really got nowhere else to trim salary.

 

That does not mean, however, that they're going to completely rebuild.

[elrockinMT]

Well, you being totally against trading anybody not named Adam Dunn or Alex Rios, makes it impossible for the Sox to resign Mark and shed any meaningful salary for '12.

 

 

I think you need to look at those not coming back and the salary we have saved already. Am I wrong that Juan Pierre was getting $8.5 M a year? I didn't say I was against trading anyone other than Dunn or Rios just that we need more of a return than some maybe prospect for Matt Thornton. Trade Ohman or Frasor and you save a few million too. I don't think it will necessarily boil down to money with Mark Buerhle but how many years he is offered. He will get a raise no doubt. I think what bothers me the most is the fact we so undervalue our own players and are willing to open up a hole or holes in the line up for so called minor league prospects.

[elrockinMT]

The picture emerging is of every asset not named Konerko or Ramirez being available. Which means paulie is probably available too.

 

If its going to happen, no half measures. If you deal one piece, look to 2014 and move anyone you can't keep until then, and anyone else you get a great offer for.

 

 

I think Milkman pegs it when he says "as much value as you can." Anyone can get traded and I am sure discussions may center around a number of players, but you don't GIVE them away if you do trade.

[Jordan4life_2007]

I think you need to look at those not coming back and the salary we have saved already. Am I wrong that Juan Pierre was getting $8.5 M a year? I didn't say I was against trading anyone other than Dunn or Rios just that we need more of a return than some maybe prospect for Matt Thornton. Trade Ohman or Frasor and you save a few million too. I don't think it will necessarily boil down to money with Mark Buerhle but how many years he is offered. He will get a raise no doubt. I think what bothers me the most is the fact we so undervalue our own players and are willing to open up a hole or holes in the line up for so called minor league prospects.

 

lol. Oh my goodness. Where the hell is Kalapse's payroll resource? You do realize that we have over $90 million in guaranteed committed salary next year WITHOUT Danks and CQ's inflating salaries? MB at $13-15 million a year puts us probably right at or above last year's payroll.

[elrockinMT]

 

 

Reduce your reply pic by another 56%

[elrockinMT]

lol. Oh my goodness. Where the hell is Kalapse's payroll resource? You do realize that we have over $90 million in guaranteed committed salary next year WITHOUT Danks and CQ's inflating salaries? MB at $13-15 million a year puts us probably right at or above last year's payroll.

 

 

Mark is still in that payroll equation. If we win then who cares if we are still at $127M. Apparently the money was not a problem last year. I am not buying into the "we are going broke" line

[Jordan4life_2007]

Mark is still in that payroll equation. If we win then who cares if we are still at $127M. Apparently the money was not a problem last year. I am not buying into the "we are going broke" line

 

No, he's not. He's a FA. As of right now, he's no more a member of the White Sox than I am.

[elrockinMT]

No, he's not. He's a FA. As of right now, he's no more a member of the White Sox than I am.

 

 

The salary rolls over into 2012 if we sign him. Economics seems to dicate that what we had in 2011 is still a valid total because we haven't started the baseball season for 2012. Until Mark is officially gone (remember we offered him arbitration, which isn't going to start at $1) his salary figures into our total. Now Pierre. Vizquel and Castro are gone

Edited November 29, 2011 by elrockinMT

[Chisoxfn]

I still contend that most of you guys are on the wrong track here.

 

You've got $75 million or so committed to the payroll, basically, no matter what you do, correct?

 

It'll be a cold day in hell when you dump all your meaningful players to keep a $75 million payroll for a horrendous team.

 

They're going to trim the payroll to a reasonable level. That may mean trading some of the key performers, simply because you've really got nowhere else to trim salary.

 

That does not mean, however, that they're going to completely rebuild.

$75 million in garbage still doesn't mean anything. I just don't see how they contend by cutting payroll into that range. Unless of course you pull off some great deals and get major league ready talent that pans out instantly (which could happen). Thats why I think the question really is what market is out there. If Kenny can buy and put together a team with a chance, than he does it. If he can't, than regardless of the payroll, you need to rebuild, imo.

 

Whether that is what they actually do or not, well thats a whole nother story.

[WHITESOXRANDY]

1. Thornton could absolutely bring a nice return - if Kenny is patient. That is the whole key and the whole question. He's never been patient in the past.

 

The best trade returns come as the FA signings near then end and the left out teams become desperate. As far as Thornton goes the Sox are in a great position because the Yanks are in dire need of someone just like him and the Red Sox need any kind of good pitching. Also, prices for relievers has been going up so much so that Thornton's contract is not prohibitive at all.

 

2. A blind man can see that the Sox need to rebuild. Would they do a complete rebuild job ? I don't believe it for a second. I don't think that there is any way that KW or JR has the patience for it or the balls to say to the fan base that we plan to compete again in 2 or 3 years.

 

Expect a half-ass gutting and a few additions meant for 2012 so management can say come out to the ballpark because we can win in 2012. KW said " we are looking for ML ready talent". He didn't say "the best prospects".

[Milkman delivers]

1. Thornton could absolutely bring a nice return - if Kenny is patient. That is the whole key and the whole question. He's never been patient in the past.

 

The best trade returns come as the FA signings near then end and the left out teams become desperate. As far as Thornton goes the Sox are in a great position because the Yanks are in dire need of someone just like him and the Red Sox need any kind of good pitching. Also, prices for relievers has been going up so much so that Thornton's contract is not prohibitive at all.

 

2. A blind man can see that the Sox need to rebuild. Would they do a complete rebuild job ? I don't believe it for a second. I don't think that there is any way that KW or JR has the patience for it or the balls to say to the fan base that we plan to compete again in 2 or 3 years.

 

Expect a half-ass gutting and a few additions meant for 2012 so management can say come out to the ballpark because we can win in 2012. KW said " we are looking for ML ready talent". He didn't say "the best prospects".

 

So sad and true.

[Balta1701]

And it than begs the question, should Alexei be available. The Sox do have a lot of valuable assets. The problem is they have three of the worse contracts in baseball and a weak farm system that has ultimately cost them the playoffs the past couple of seasons.

Alexei Ramirez would require the kind of package that the Rockies got for Jiminez. Maybe better.

[spiderman]

Salary dump for decent prospect unless part of a package.

 

I don't think they will get much in return. He's making $6 million per for the next two seasons, and is 34 or 35 years old, which makes him a high priced middle relief risk.

 

I think they will be able to move him, but would be surprised if they got anything outside of salary relief.

[Marty34]

Alexei Ramirez would require the kind of package that the Rockies got for Jiminez. Maybe better.

 

That would make Ramirez one of the most valuable trade commodities in MLB.

[Dick Allen]

At the very least this tells me his value isn't as much as the Sox think it is.

Yeah, because if you don't move a guy within 4 months of the season starting its an indication no one wants him. Apparently no one wants Pujols either.

[Balta1701]

That would make Ramirez one of the most valuable trade commodities in MLB.

Correct. With his performance per dollar, he is.

[sircaffey]

Correct. With his performance per dollar, he is.

He's valuable but I wouldn't go as far as to say he's worth as much in trade as Jimenez (who has an even better contract than Ramirez). Ramirez is a quality player, but he's complementary. He's someone you add to an already good team. He of course makes a team better, but there's not a team that will ever build around Alexei Ramirez. And that's the only type of player that teams are willing to and should give up a substantial amount of their future for. We aren't getting a Pomeranz and White for him.

[southsider2k5]

I don't think they will get much in return. He's making $6 million per for the next two seasons, and is 34 or 35 years old, which makes him a high priced middle relief risk.

 

I think they will be able to move him, but would be surprised if they got anything outside of salary relief.

 

Mariano just turned 42. If you are good you are good.

[Balta1701]

Mariano just turned 42. If you are good you are good.

Comparing players to inhuman monsters isn't fair.

[Jordan4life_2007]

The salary rolls over into 2012 if we sign him. Economics seems to dicate that what we had in 2011 is still a valid total because we haven't started the baseball season for 2012. Until Mark is officially gone (remember we offered him arbitration, which isn't going to start at $1) his salary figures into our total. Now Pierre. Vizquel and Castro are gone

 

Are you just never around when KW and Jerry say they have to scale back payroll next year? They failed miserably in '11, lost a lot of money, and are not spending another $127 million on this same product. Like I said, $90-$94 million in guaranteed money (not sure of the exact number) WITHOUT Buehrle, Danks and CQ. Pierre, Castro and Omar made s*** last year. That's not going to make a shred of difference.

[iamshack]

$75 million in garbage still doesn't mean anything. I just don't see how they contend by cutting payroll into that range. Unless of course you pull off some great deals and get major league ready talent that pans out instantly (which could happen). Thats why I think the question really is what market is out there. If Kenny can buy and put together a team with a chance, than he does it. If he can't, than regardless of the payroll, you need to rebuild, imo.

 

Whether that is what they actually do or not, well thats a whole nother story.

Oh I agree...it does them no good to have a payroll of $75-90 million and completely suck, when they could have a payroll of $110 million and probably have a fighting chance...

 

I can't see them rebuilding. Trimming the fat, yes. Blowing it up, no. They couldn't if they tried.

[iamshack]

That would make Ramirez one of the most valuable trade commodities in MLB.

I can't see him being worth this much realistically...he's a valuable player, but he's not someone that puts up huge offensive numbers, nor is he someone that fans are really all that aware of. I could see him bringing back a few nice prospects, but nothing like the haul the Rockies got for UJ...

[RockRaines]

I love how all of this stuff is coming out in the media now, the team has been wokring on this stuff for months