Sox getting calls on Santos

[southsider2k5]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseb...0,6669385.story

 

With the winter meetings a week away and free-agent prices still high, teams are working to fill their needs through trades. According to sources, both the White Sox and Cubs are getting a lot of calls about their proven relievers, including closers Sergio Santos and Carlos Marmol.

 

Seven teams are trying to fill a void at closer, and five of those (Red Sox, Blue Jays, Twins, Reds and Mets) are also looking for set-up men. While it would be painful to trade arms like Santos and Marmol, they could bring back multiple parts in trades. They are signed to contracts that could make them bargains.

 

Santos, who was 30-for-36 in save situations last year, recently signed one of those classic White Sox contracts giving him financial security at the cost of receiving anything close to market value in the future.

 

He gave the team control of three arbitration years and two free-agent years in a deal that will pay him a guaranteed $8.25 million over three years with a maximum value of $31 million over six years, depending on whether the team exercises its options. Compare that kind of a deal to that received by Jonathan Papelbon, who by working the arbitration and free agency systems will have earned a combined $52.375 million for the same six-year period in his career.

 

The difference tells me one thing: The White Sox aren’t trading Santos unless they are blown away, even though they do have bullpen depth and an heir apparent in top prospect Addison Reid.

[southsider2k5]

http://www.csnchicago.com/blog/whitesox-ta...rce=twitterfeed

 

Trading Santos hardly an awful idea

November 28, 2011, 8:02 pm

 

JJ STANKEVITZ

csnchicago.png

 

While "getting calls on" hardly equates to "interested in trading," teams are reportedly interested in trading for White Sox closer Sergio Santos.

 

The Sox recently signed Santos to a team-friendly contract that'll pay him $8.25 million through 2014 with team options of $6 million, $8 million and $8.75 million for 2015-2017. Normally, a player with the contract and relative youth (he's 28, but remember, Santos' arm doesn't have the wear and tear of five-plus years of pitching in the minors) would be pretty tough to trade.

 

But if the White Sox can squeeze multiple prospects out of a trade for Santos, they strongly consider dealing him.

 

With relievers going for insane prices and multiple teams needing a closer, Santos would draw heavy interest if the Sox decided to dangle him as a trade chip. Last summer, the Twins and Nationals nearly swapped outfielder Denard Span for closer Drew Storen -- with Washington calling the deal off despite that the trade would've been a steal for the Nationals.

 

Relievers are perpetually overvalued in today's baseball landscape. They're the easiest players on a team to replace, but they're overvalued because if your team doesn't have a good bullpen, it's often the most glaring weakness.

 

Of course, teams have good bullpens all the time and don't succeed. Like the White Sox last year.

 

If the Sox deal away Santos, they could bump Jesse Crain, Matt Thornton or Addison Reed into the closer role, or go with a combination of all three based on matchups and situations (the best option, but the least likely). Any one of those three pitchers would probably be okay finishing games -- Thornton's foray into closing wasn't good last year, but in 2012, hopefully he won't have his left fielder muffing fly balls behind him.

 

Long-term, Reed very well could be the team's closer, so dealing away Santos and his six years of control could be absorbed. Value-wise, the difference between, say, Reed and Santos probably won't be massive, if there's a gap at all. That's assuming a lot about Reed, sure, but his track record provides a decent reason to believe he could succeed long-term.

 

And if the return for Santos was a young starting pitcher, catcher or second baseman, chances are that player's value will be higher -- or at least equal to -- that of Santos through 2017. It's much easier for a starter or position player to be worth more than a reliever -- a great season for a reliever usually nets a team 2 WAR, while an average season for a starter or position player is worth the same amount.

 

Of course, this is all speculation -- the White Sox probably aren't entertaining dealing Santos away. And that's perfectly okay. His performance combined with his contract should make him a bargain through at least 2014, and it's certainly nice to have the security of a top-notch closer to shut down games in the ninth inning.

 

But if the Sox do decide to trade Santos, it hardly would be the end of the world. It might actually end up being more beneficial to the team.

[Jordan4life_2007]

And Marty is now vindicated.

[southsider2k5]

And Marty is now vindicated.

 

Unless he gets traded, no.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Unless he gets traded, no.

 

Actually, he is. Most here thought the idea was ridiculous. It makes sense under certain circumstances.

[southsider2k5]

Actually, he is. Most here thought the idea was ridiculous. It makes sense under certain circumstances.

 

NO one though the Sox wouldn't get calls. Most everyone thought he would stay put because of his super-friendly contract.

[Jordan4life_2007]

NO one though the Sox wouldn't get calls. Most everyone thought he would stay put because of his super-friendly contract.

 

I know that. Point was the idea of trading a 29-year old closer, even one with a team-friendly contract, isn't anywhere near the potential travesty that some are making it out to be.

Edited November 29, 2011 by Jordan4life

[southsider2k5]

I know that. Point was the idea of trading a 29-year old closer, even one with a team-friendly contract, isn't anywhere near the potential travesty that some are making it out to be.

 

Unless we get a massive haul, it is, which is exactly what the factual article is saying. The other one is some guys speculation.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Unless we get a massive haul, it is, which is exactly what the factual article is saying. The other one is some guys speculation.

 

Didn't Marty say the same thing, only to get repeatedly shot down?

[NorthSideSox72]

Didn't Marty say the same thing, only to get repeatedly shot down?

What are you talking about? This article states that people are calling about Santos. No one would have suggested that wouldn't happen. How is Marty "vindicated"? I only seem to recall him being shot down because he wanted to trade Santos, and the responses were that that was a silly idea unless the return was insanely good.

 

[southsider2k5]

What are you talking about? This article states that people are calling about Santos. No one would have suggested that wouldn't happen. How is Marty "vindicated"? I only seem to recall him being shot down because he wanted to trade Santos, and the responses were that that was a silly idea unless the return was insanely good.

 

Exactly. And the odds were the Sox wouldn't get an insane offer, and Santos would in all likelihood be back next year.

[Jordan4life_2007]

What are you talking about? This article states that people are calling about Santos. No one would have suggested that wouldn't happen. How is Marty "vindicated"? I only seem to recall him being shot down because he wanted to trade Santos, and the responses were that that was a silly idea unless the return was insanely good.

 

OK? I'm not trying to be his mouthpiece. But isn't that exactly what he was endorsing from the start? I don't remember him saying "insanely" good. But a really good one. I for one wouldn't require a Matt Moore clone (though it'd be nice) to deal a cheap closer.

Edited November 29, 2011 by Jordan4life

[southsider2k5]

OK? I'm not trying to be his mouthpiece. But isn't that exactly what he was endorsing from the start? A really good package? And he was repeatedly shot down. Insanely good? for a closer? As if some team would have to offer up a Matt Moore to get him. Please.

 

With the money closers are getting this winter, and Santos essentially with a deal longer than Paplebons, yes, the return has to be pretty much insane for a deal to get done. Otherwise, it isn't worth it in terms of the contract we are giving up, plus the player we are giving up.

[Jordan4life_2007]

With the money closers are getting this winter, and Santos essentially with a deal longer than Paplebons, yes, the return has to be pretty much insane for a deal to get done. Otherwise, it isn't worth it in terms of the contract we are giving up, plus the player we are giving up.

 

Define insane? I think that's where the disconnect is. We're not talking Starlin Castro or Andrew McCutchen here. Hypothetically speaking, if the Rangers offered up Martin Perez, a top-flight pitching prospect, yet one with flaws, do you make the trade?

[southsider2k5]

Define insane? I think that's where the disconnect is. We're not talking Starlin Castro or Andrew McCutchen here. Hypothetically speaking, if the Rangers offered up Martin Perez, a top-flight pitching prospect, yet one with flaws, do you make the trade?

 

If we are talking about the second tier of top prospects, I want other players to go with him to fill weak spots. Closers are getting 4/5 year deals at upwards of $12 million a year.

 

Santos is signed up through the 2017 season, with zero seasons over $9 million. The last three years, are all options. The Sox could only keep him for three years and pay as little as $8.25million. In other words we could get four full years of Santos, for just over one of Paplebons.

 

That is as team friendly of a contract as you can ever have. Not only is it super cheap, but it is also massive team friendly.

[Jordan4life_2007]

If we are talking about the second tier of top prospects, I want other players to go with him to fill weak spots. Closers are getting 4/5 year deals at upwards of $12 million a year.

 

Santos is signed up through the 2017 season, with zero seasons over $9 million. The last three years, are all options. The Sox could only keep him for three years and pay as little as $8.25million. In other words we could get four full years of Santos, for just over one of Paplebons.

 

That is as team friendly of a contract as you can ever have. Not only is it super cheap, but it is also massive team friendly.

 

So a deal centered around a Martin Perez type? Fair enough. There we go. That's what I recall Marty endorsing and being shot down by the same people that wouldn't have traded Gordon Beckham for anybody not named Pujols two years ago.

[southsider2k5]

So a deal centered around a Martin Perez type? Fair enough. There we go. That's what I recall Marty endorsing and being shot down by the same people that wouldn't have traded Gordon Beckham for anybody not named Pujols two years ago.

 

Not really. He was more interested in actively trying to trade Santos. Big difference.

[Chicago White Sox]

Again, if you ever want to sign another player to a club friendly extension, then I would not deal Santos until the deadline at the very earliest if not next offseason. It would send a terrible message to all players in the system if you moved him now. Plus if he takes that next step, his value would only go up.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Not really. He was more interested in actively trying to trade Santos. Big difference.

 

Meh. Same thing to me. But I will concede that there is a distinct difference between "getting" calls and "taking" calls. For some reason, when I initially read the thread title, I saw it as the latter. So sorry, Marty, gotta take back my "vindication" prop. I know that means so much to you.

[southsider2k5]

Again, if you ever want to sign another player to a club friendly extension, then I would not deal Santos until the deadline at the very earliest if not next offseason. It would send a terrible message to all players in the system if you moved him now. Plus if he takes that next step, his value would only go up.

 

That is also a really good point.

[southsider2k5]

Meh. Same thing to me. But I will concede that there is a distinct difference between "getting" calls and "taking" calls. For some reason, when I initially read the thread title, I saw it as the latter. So sorry, Marty, gotta take back my "vindication" prop. I know that means so much to you.

 

[sircaffey]

Trade him.

[Tannerfan]

How about offering Santos or Danks. Tell the team they can take their pick, but they have to take Rios.

Sign Quinten, sign Buehrle, everybody's happy.

[Chisoxfn]

I know that. Point was the idea of trading a 29-year old closer, even one with a team-friendly contract, isn't anywhere near the potential travesty that some are making it out to be.

I agree. At 29 and with this contract he is incredibly valuable. If a small market contender or heck, any contender, was in need of a closer, the Sox would be foolish not to listen. But the asking price starts at 2 top 50 prospects plus a 3rd prospect whose a top 150 or so prospect. Its a steep asking price but given the financially friendly deal and his talent, it only makes sense. From the Sox perspective, it gives you more talent, which we ultimately need.

 

If they plan on trading Danks and Floyd, this team is going to have to rebuild so they might as well move almost anyone who is not going be able to contribute 3 to 4 years down the road (since at a minimum you are talking about a 3 to 4 year rebuilding period if you move Danks/Floyd for spects).

[Balta1701]

How about offering Santos or Danks. Tell the team they can take their pick, but they have to take Rios.

Sign Quinten, sign Buehrle, everybody's happy.

No one is taking Rios. Especially with Danks, that's a $21 million commitment, and moving rios with santos means you can't send them to any small market team.

 

Roos stays and plays until he retires or he plays well enough that he can be moved at no cost. Just accept it.