Wanne Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 The only way this will come back and bite us in the ass is IF the Sox come out clicking on all cylinders next year and we have a bunch of 9th inning meltdowns. As much as I'd like to use the "R" word...when you have guys like Konerko, Dunn and Rios in your lineup...as well as AJ...it's really hard to even think about throwing that word out there quite yet. I'm not against it...or anything...but it won't feel like a rebuild until guys like that are gone. I can't give an honest assessment one way or the other since I know nothing about this guy. There were times were Sergio was just plain "unhittable" last year...so it's tough giving up somebody like that for virtual unknown. Time will tell... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshPR Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 WHAT THE FU....????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 02:02 PM) Until they trade Danks or Floyd, that's not correct at all. OK, 75 games. I've given up on Rios and Peavy. Adam Dunn is basically a rookie starting over next year. Mark's all but gone. It's going to be ugly next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 02:05 PM) OK, 75 games. I've given up on Rios and Peavy. Adam Dunn is basically a rookie starting over next year. Mark's all but gone. It's going to be ugly next year. You forgot that Juan Pierre is gone. That adds like a 7 game improvement from last year automatically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshPR Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 Something makes no sense here... Jays are fielding calls on Drabek so they'll need pitching to comeup, trading you're #2 prospect for a closer I just don't get it. That shows you the sox weren't too high on Santos or Kenny sold really high and fleeced the jays, or the other way around. I'm thinking sale is you're closer now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitewashed in '05 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (JoshPR @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 02:09 PM) Something makes no sense here... Jays are fielding calls on Drabek so they'll need pitching to comeup, trading you're #2 prospect for a closer I just don't get it. That shows you the sox weren't too high on Santos or Kenny sold really high and fleeced the jays, or the other way around. I'm thinking sale is you're closer now Sox have already Sale is officially in the rotation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 Sale is going to be starting, end of story! Crain will probably start year as closer, and Reed will take over by June. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (JoshPR @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 02:09 PM) Something makes no sense here... Jays are fielding calls on Drabek so they'll need pitching to comeup, trading you're #2 prospect for a closer I just don't get it. That shows you the sox weren't too high on Santos or Kenny sold really high and fleeced the jays, or the other way around. I'm thinking sale is your closer now Not happening. He's a starter all the way next year. I think Reed will get a long look, and if not, Crain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOXOBAMA Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 Sale is going to be starting, end of story! Crain will probably start year as closer, and Reed will take over by June. Frasor will probably be our closer but I hope that he gets traded as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted December 6, 2011 Author Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (JoshPR @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 02:04 PM) WHAT THE FU....????? Damn. This analysis is clutch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 http://www.battersbox.ca/article.php?story...1664#11comments The Jays complete their second trade in a week, shipping out Nestor Molina, the team's 6th best prospect according to, well, us. Molina goes to the south side of Chicago to join the White Sox. In return the Blue Jays reacquire Sergio Santos, who hit .183 for the team in AAA in 2008 before being claimed on waivers by the Twins. He then signed with the White Sox who converted him to a pitcher, a role in which he's been very, very good. Molina has had a very good two years, making the transition from low-A to double A while excelling at every stop. Batter's Box ranked him as the team's 6th best prospect this past offseason; John Sickels had him second. The relevant section from our report: [Table] The Jays organization has a seen a few success stories in recent years regarding prospects that have converted from hitter to pitcher, or vice versa. Molina began his career in the Dominican Summer League as a hitter but struggled with the bat. The team made the wise decision to make use of his arm strength on the mound rather than cut bait entirely. Despite his relative inexperience as a pitcher, Molina displays almost extra-ordinary command of the ball. His control helps his average (87-93 mph) fastball play up. His best pitch - his out-pitch - could certainly be his change-of-pace, which is a big-league-caliber splitter. Molina, 22, also features a decent slider/cutter. In 2011, the right-hander began the year in advanced A and posted a 2.45 FIP (2.58 ERA). He displayed his outstanding control with an other-worldly walk rate of 1.16 BB/9 and missed a lot of bats as witnessed by his strikeout rate of 9.55 K/9. He then made five dominating regular season starts in AA, as well as a few post-season appearances. With his fielding glove now with a heavy layer of dust on it, Molina broke the 100-inning barrier for the first time in his career with 130.1 innings pitched between high-A and double-A. The Jays organization is starting to stockpile and impressive group of minor league arms and some of those prospects are starting to reach the Majors (Henderson Alvarez, Joel Carreno, Luis Perez, Chad Beck, Danny Farquhar, etc). Molina could very well join them at the MLB level at some point in 2012 and it will be interesting to see if the club challenges him with an assignment to the launching pad known as triple-A Las Vegas. More than likely, though, he'll begin next year back in double-A New Hampshire. While it hurts to lose Molina, the Jays undoubtedly have a very strong collection of arms in the low-minors, and the player they are acquiring, Sergio Santos, immediately slots in as the best reliever on the team. In 115 innings spread out over two years with the White Sox, Santos struck out three out of every ten of the batters he's faced, which is top ten amongst pitchers with 100 innings pitched. In 2011 he was even better, striking out 35% of the batters he faced, good for top five amongst pitchers with 50 innings. He also cut his prodigious walk rate slightly in 2011, posting a very strong 3.17/1 K/BB ratio. Santos also does a reasonable job keeping the ball on the ground, and while he's gotten a bit lucky with home runs, he's only allowed eight in two years. Perhaps most importantly, Santos is under contract for an extremely reasonable amount going forward. Per Cot's: 12:$1M, 13:$2.75M, 14:$3.75M, 15:$6M club option, 16:$8M club option, 17:$8.75M club option ($0.75M buyouts for each option) Given that Heath Bell, who is likely to be an inferior pitcher over the next three years, got $27 million over that time span, and other top tier relievers like Ryan Madson and Jonathan Papelbon both got over $11 per year for four years, Santos grades out as a huge bargain, as he is guaranteed $7.5 million over the next three years combined. While he isn't as good as Papelbon or Madson, it's not an orders of magnitude difference, and he immediately becomes the best Jays reliever since the glory years of BJ Ryan, Is the cost overall worth it? It depends on how Molina does. If he becomes a good major league pitcher, then the Jays probably lose out - Molina is liable to pitch five times as many innings over his six years of team control as Santos will over the next three the Jays have him for. But given that the team is dealing from a position of surplus, Santos' reasonable cost, and the fact that TINSTAAPP, this seems like a very reasonable win-win deal for both teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (SOXOBAMA @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 02:16 PM) Frasor will probably be our closer but I hope that he gets traded as well That would be awful. The closer should be Reed come April. He destroyed the minor leagues. Nothing left for him to prove. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (SOXOBAMA @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 02:16 PM) Frasor will probably be our closer but I hope that he gets traded as well He might be the 4th best closer option in the bullpen at best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce_Blixton Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 I'm really surprised by all the outrage over this trade, Santos was basically a waiver claim that KW was able to flip for a top 50 prospect. Sounds like a pretty good return on investment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOXOBAMA Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 That would be awful. The closer should be Reed come April. He destroyed the minor leagues. Nothing left for him to prove. I agree.. Reed should be our closer in April but i don't see RV starting the season with a rookie as a closer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 02:05 PM) OK, 75 games. I've given up on Rios and Peavy. Adam Dunn is basically a rookie starting over next year. Mark's all but gone. It's going to be ugly next year. Dunn has many year of MLB production as his track record and he's a rookie how again? And at the moment our rotation and lineup are good enough to compete and win the ALC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 And KW is apparently trying to make my other post talking about the trades look completely false. At the moment Buehrle is gone and Danks and Floyd are beginning to look like deadline trades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOXOBAMA Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 He might be the 4th best closer option in the bullpen at best. he has experience as a closer.. I do hope he is gone though, along with Crain and Thornton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (SOXOBAMA @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 02:21 PM) I agree.. Reed should be our closer in April but i don't see RV starting the season with a rookie as a closer. It took me like 40 seconds to figure out who the hell "RV" was. Gotta get used to that one. QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 02:21 PM) Dunn has many year of MLB production as his track record and he's a rookie how again? And at the moment our rotation and lineup are good enough to compete and win the ALC. Dunn's track record means nothing going into next year. The worst single-season in modern baseball history evaporated his track record. He has to prove himself all over again. Assuming Mark is gone, I don't think we have anywhere near a playoff caliber rotation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
103 mph screwball Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 02:05 PM) OK, 75 games. I've given up on Rios and Peavy. Adam Dunn is basically a rookie starting over next year. Mark's all but gone. It's going to be ugly next year. It was ugly last year! The difference this year will be expectations. Last years team underachieved and was very disappointing. I was able to attend two games last year. The first one was the 9th inning Loss to Oakland featuring Juan getting picked off twice and bullpen mismanagement/implosion. The second one was a blow out loss to the yankees where their fans out numbered ours by the end of the game. To me THAT was rock bottom. I am an optimist. 1. Ozzie gone will help the Sox improve. I know Ventura will make mistakes. I think that little of Ozzie the past several years. 2. De Aza will be better than Juan 3. Dunn and Rios will improve either because of returning to norms or because lack of expectations 4. Viciedo 5. Hopefully Peavy will be an asset 6. Beckham gets a new hitting coach and a manager who isn't jealous of him 7. Morel is for real and will be solid I hope Rock is right. Move some salaries, replace them some players with potential, restock the farm, bring back Mark. I have a feeling with Ozzie gone some of these guys will be revitalized and new leaders will step up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 02:25 PM) Dunn's track record means nothing going into next year. The worst single-season in modern baseball history evaporated his track record. He has to prove himself all over again. Assuming Mark is gone, I don't think we have anywhere near a playoff caliber rotation. I disagree, his track record still means quite a bit and makes last year look like an outlier as opposed to the norm. Basic statistics would probably back that up. Second: 1. Danks 2. Floyd 3. Humber 4. Peavy 5. Sale Doesnt look like it could make the playoffs for us in the ALC? I think its a good rotation and could be better if Sale projects like I think he will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shago Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 How can you not LOVE this trade?! Kid's a possible great SP. We will be w/o MB; Danks/Floyd in 2yrs. Awesome stuff. Santos was shaky all year, high counts, blown saves (or near misses). What do we need a closer for in a rebuild?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtySox Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 02:22 PM) And KW is apparently trying to make my other post talking about the trades look completely false. At the moment Buehrle is gone and Danks and Floyd are beginning to look like deadline trades. Ugh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
103 mph screwball Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 02:22 PM) And KW is apparently trying to make my other post talking about the trades look completely false. At the moment Buehrle is gone and Danks and Floyd are beginning to look like deadline trades. That's exactly what he wants suitors for Danks and Floyd to believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 Jesus, thank god we arent out there offering 10 year contracts. There is no way that works out in the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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