Jordan4life_2007 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 02:27 PM) I disagree, his track record still means quite a bit and makes last year look like an outlier as opposed to the norm. Basic statistics would probably back that up. Second: 1. Danks 2. Floyd 3. Humber 4. Peavy 5. Sale Doesnt look like it could make the playoffs for us in the ALC? I think its a good rotation and could be better if Sale projects like I think he will. There are off years, and then there's Adam Dunn's 2011. He just whiffed three times looking as I typed that. Honestly, I'd rather have Doug Fister over anybody outside of maybe Danks in that possible rotation for 2012. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 02:32 PM) There are off years, and then there's Adam Dunn's 2011. He just whiffed three times looking as I typed that. Honestly, I'd rather have Doug Fister over anybody outside of maybe Danks in that possible rotation for 2012. Yes, but based on his ENTIRE career that was a complete outlier. All signs and basic math point to that not happening again. Second, Doug Fister was exceptional last season. I would take him over Peavy and Humber in a heartbeat. I still think Sale is a future Ace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cali Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 12:22 PM) And KW is apparently trying to make my other post talking about the trades look completely false. At the moment Buehrle is gone and Danks and Floyd are beginning to look like deadline trades. I don't trust KW's judgement on deadline deals after last years debacle... Though I think there's no chance the team will be anywhere near the top of the division come July 31st so the decision will made for him. Hopefully there are some desperate teams willing to pay for pitching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOXOBAMA Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 RV said wait this week and find out who our closer will be... I wonder if we are going to make a trade for a closer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 02:36 PM) Yes, but based on his ENTIRE career that was a complete outlier. All signs and basic math point to that not happening again. Adam Dunn isn't a statistical model, though. There's no guarantee that he'll return to the 'norm' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 02:36 PM) Yes, but based on his ENTIRE career that was a complete outlier. All signs and basic math point to that not happening again. Second, Doug Fister was exceptional last season. I would take him over Peavy and Humber in a heartbeat. I still think Sale is a future Ace. Will agree to disagree on Dunn. I expect nothing from him next year. I know how good Fister was. That's my point. He's the Tigers #3 starter. He'd probably be our ace. I hope you're right about Sale, obviously. But I'm realistic. He's more than likely going to be up and down in '12. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (SOXOBAMA @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 02:38 PM) RV said wait this week and find out who our closer will be... I wonder if we are going to make a trade for a closer That would be an odd move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwolf68 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 Trade for a closer? Huh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
103 mph screwball Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (SOXOBAMA @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 02:38 PM) RV said wait this week and find out who our closer will be... I wonder if we are going to make a trade for a closer I took that to mean he would wait to see who was left. Thornton, Frasor, and Crain could all be gone for all we know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (SOXOBAMA @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 02:38 PM) RV said wait this week and find out who our closer will be... I wonder if we are going to make a trade for a closer Who is RV? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 02:43 PM) Who is RV? Robin Ventura. Don't trip. Took me a minute to figure that out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOXOBAMA Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 Who is RV? Robin Ventura Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 02:40 PM) Will agree to disagree on Dunn. I expect nothing from him next year. I know how good Fister was. That's my point. He's the Tigers #3 starter. He'd probably be our ace. I hope you're right about Sale, obviously. But I'm realistic. He's more than likely going to be up and down in '12. Dunn is obviously a question mark, we are just on two different sides of the wait and see approach. Fister only has 2 seasons of MLB ball under him, I would give him a little more time to anoint him a possible Ace for any staff. Of course Verlander makes any staff that much tougher. Surprisingly enough Det's major weakness last season was their pitching. Offensively they were much stronger and IMO they have some regression candidates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 Here's a fact for you guys... Nobody here has ever sat through am MLB trade negotiation. Nobody here knows what we could have gotten or should have gotten. Nobody here really knows the market for a closer 3 years removed from being a SS bust. Nobody knows what it really takes to land a top 50 type prospect. It seems the Sox have an organizational philosophy for pitching. You have to throw strikes to pitch here. This kid throws strikes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 09:52 PM) Here's a fact for you guys... Nobody here has ever sat through am MLB trade negotiation. Nobody here knows what we could have gotten or should have gotten. Nobody here really knows the market for a closer 3 years removed from being a SS bust. Nobody knows what it really takes to land a top 50 type prospect. It seems the Sox have an organizational philosophy for pitching. You have to throw strikes to pitch here. This kid throws strikes. But we do have a centuries worth of case studies of trades happening in this league. Some trade negotiators make great trades and some make really bad ones. They are not all equal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 02:55 PM) But we do have a centuries worth of case studies of trades happening in this league. Some trade negotiators make great trades and some make really bad ones. They are not all equal. The idea that no one outside of MLB can evaluate whether a trade is good or bad is pretty ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan-kwman Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 1. Peavy 2. Sale 3. Humber 4. Axelrod 5. Stewart Can't wait to send that season ticket deposit in!!!!! 2012 season is over. Dunnnn!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOXOBAMA Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 1. Peavy 2. Sale 3. Humber 4. Axelrod 5. Stewart Can't wait to send that season ticket deposit in!!!!! 2012 season is over. Dunnnn!!! I just send the Sox 5 grand for my season tickets. Will be a lot of fun seeing a lot of young stars Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 04:00 PM) The idea that no one outside of MLB can evaluate whether a trade is good or bad is pretty ridiculous. So is the idea that 99% of us, who had no idea who Nestor Molina even was 130 minutes ago, can have an informed opinion at this point, is pretty ridiculous as well. This is going to be one of those deals where you just wait and see... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 03:04 PM) So is the idea that 99% of us, who had no idea who Nestor Molina even was 130 minutes ago, can have an informed opinion at this point, is pretty ridiculous as well. This is going to be one of those deals where you just wait and see... That he was a generally unknown AA converted pitching prospect says something, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHITESOXRANDY Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 I'm really surprised by all the outrage over this trade, Santos was basically a waiver claim that KW was able to flip for a top 50 prospect. Sounds like a pretty good return on investment. So, I guess if you found a $ 100 bill on the ground you would be okay to trade it for a hamburger? The Sox gave away an excellent closer that was young and very cheap. Now, a good starting pitcher is def. worth more than a closer. So, if this kid becomes, within a few years, an excellent starting pitcher for many years then the Sox did good. But, that seems to be very debatable right now on this kid since he's only thrown 22 innings above A ball. If he ends up in the bullpen then the Sox got fleeced. And, if he ends up just a so-so starting pitcher at the big league level then the Sox blew a chance to get a better return for a valuable piece like Santos. Molina might be great but right now the return looks light for Santos because the Sox only got 1 prospect and the reports on him vary quite a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 04:05 PM) That he was a generally unknown AA converted pitching prospect says something, though. He wasn't generally unknown to those who make it their business to know these things. I would love to know how many AA pitching prospects you or BMags could name off the top of your heads at 11 am this morning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 Who has him ranked as a Top 50 prospect? I've seen that referenced a few times now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 04:00 PM) The idea that no one outside of MLB can evaluate whether a trade is good or bad is pretty ridiculous. The idea that anybody here knows the true value of Santos is even more ridiculous. I like Santos, but he's brink down 2 years in a row. His slider is tough to repeat. When its not working, he's worthless. Perhaps other GMs also noted that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 03:08 PM) He wasn't generally unknown to those who make it their business to know these things. Right, I'm not sure that was really a strong point. But reports are pretty mixed right now, with some seeing his ceiling as a middle-of-the-rotation guy and others as middle-of-the-bullpen caliber. I would love to know how many AA pitching prospects you or BMags could name off the top of your heads at 11 am this morning. Zero! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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