3E8 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 04:09 PM) Who has him ranked as a Top 50 prospect? I've seen that referenced a few times now. Nobody. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 05:05 PM) That he was a generally unknown AA converted pitching prospect says something, though. Not really, he could just be a scouting success. That background doesn't say nearly as much as his numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwolf68 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 Gammons said the Red Sox and Orioles would have "killed" for a guy like Santos. I suppose Williams didn't get the offer he wanted from them, assuming he even contacted them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 03:09 PM) Who has him ranked as a Top 50 prospect? I've seen that referenced a few times now. A top 50 prospect in all of baseball? Please tell me that's not part of your criteria for what a successful haul would've been for Santos? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 03:12 PM) Not really, he could just be a scouting success. That background doesn't say nearly as much as his numbers. If we run with the premise that he was generally unknown to those inside baseball, then his value would be pretty low. Seemingly lower than a relatively young relief pitcher with some MLB success and a cheap contract for several years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 03:13 PM) A top 50 prospect in all of baseball? Please tell me that's not part of your criteria for what a successful haul would've been for Santos? No, I've seen the "Top 50" claim several times in this thread now. What I heard on the radio (#18 in the Blue Jays deep system) is drastically different from that. edit: I'm just looking for clarification there. A Top 50 prospect for Santos would be pretty ridiculous. Edited December 6, 2011 by StrangeSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHITESOXRANDY Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 I'm really surprised by all the outrage over this trade, Santos was basically a waiver claim that KW was able to flip for a top 50 prospect. Sounds like a pretty good return on investment. So, I guess if you found a $ 100 bill on the ground you would be okay to trade it for a hamburger? The Sox gave away an excellent closer that was young and very cheap. Now, a good starting pitcher is def. worth more than a closer. So, if this kid becomes, within a few years, an excellent starting pitcher for many years then the Sox did good. But, that seems to be very debatable right now on this kid since he's only thrown 22 innings above A ball. If he ends up in the bullpen then the Sox got fleeced. And, if he ends up just a so-so starting pitcher at the big league level then the Sox blew a chance to get a better return for a valuable piece like Santos. Molina might be great but right now the return looks light for Santos because the Sox only got 1 prospect and the reports on him vary quite a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 03:15 PM) No, I've seen the "Top 50" claim several times in this thread now. What I heard on the radio (#18 in the Blue Jays deep system) is drastically different from that. edit: I'm just looking for clarification there. A Top 50 prospect for Santos would be pretty ridiculous. Most top prospects lists (Baseball America, Baseball Prospectus) have yet to be released. Molina's status has gone up considerably over the last year. That #18 ranking is probably from some list over a year ago. Minor League Ball, another prospect-centric site, has Molina ranked #2 in their system. http://www.minorleagueball.com/2011/11/30/...spects-for-2012 Edited December 6, 2011 by Jordan4life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 03:23 PM) Most top prospects lists (Baseball America, Baseball Prospectus) have yet to be released. Molina's status has gone up considerably over the last year. That #18 ranking is probably some list from over a year ago. Minor League Ball, another prospect-centric site, has Molina ranked #2 in their system. http://www.minorleagueball.com/2011/11/30/...spects-for-2012 Right, so why are a couple of people referring to him as a Top 50 prospect? That's what I'm confused about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3E8 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 04:15 PM) A Top 50 prospect for Santos would be pretty ridiculous. Remember what the Twins gave up for Capps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 Sergio Santos was developing into a dominant closer. Still learning and since we now apparently have signalled we will consider dumping salary of every player making over minimum wage it makes you wonder just where we are headed. I am not certain how many saw this coming, but I sure didn't. Maybe this prospect will work out-it's done so let's hope so. Who is our closer? Reed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (WHITESOXRANDY @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 09:19 PM) So, I guess if you found a $ 100 bill on the ground you would be okay to trade it for a hamburger? The Sox gave away an excellent closer that was young and very cheap. Now, a good starting pitcher is def. worth more than a closer. So, if this kid becomes, within a few years, an excellent starting pitcher for many years then the Sox did good. But, that seems to be very debatable right now on this kid since he's only thrown 22 innings above A ball. If he ends up in the bullpen then the Sox got fleeced. And, if he ends up just a so-so starting pitcher at the big league level then the Sox blew a chance to get a better return for a valuable piece like Santos. Molina might be great but right now the return looks light for Santos because the Sox only got 1 prospect and the reports on him vary quite a bit. It is very uncertain for sure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 04:09 PM) Who has him ranked as a Top 50 prospect? I've seen that referenced a few times now. Here is one opinion. http://seedlingstostars.com/2011/11/24/the...-nestor-molina/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 03:24 PM) Right, so why are a couple of people referring to him as a Top 50 prospect? That's what I'm confused about. OK, now I'm confused. What are we talking about here? You mean people from this board say he's a top 50 prospect? I seriously doubt he'd be on any top 50 prospect lists. At least not overall (position players included) prospects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danman31 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (WHITESOXRANDY @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 03:08 PM) So, I guess if you found a $ 100 bill on the ground you would be okay to trade it for a hamburger? The Sox gave away an excellent closer that was young and very cheap. Now, a good starting pitcher is def. worth more than a closer. So, if this kid becomes, within a few years, an excellent starting pitcher for many years then the Sox did good. But, that seems to be very debatable right now on this kid since he's only thrown 22 innings above A ball. If he ends up in the bullpen then the Sox got fleeced. And, if he ends up just a so-so starting pitcher at the big league level then the Sox blew a chance to get a better return for a valuable piece like Santos. Molina might be great but right now the return looks light for Santos because the Sox only got 1 prospect and the reports on him vary quite a bit. A so-so starting pitcher is at least as valuable as a good closer. QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 03:09 PM) Who has him ranked as a Top 50 prospect? I've seen that referenced a few times now. These guys did Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (3E8 @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 03:25 PM) Remember what the Twins gave up for Capps? Not that much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GREEDY Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 Molina is obviously someone Kenny (or someone in the organization) fell in love with but couldn't quite squeeze out in the Edwin Jackson deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaseballNick Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 03:15 PM) No, I've seen the "Top 50" claim several times in this thread now. What I heard on the radio (#18 in the Blue Jays deep system) is drastically different from that. edit: I'm just looking for clarification there. A Top 50 prospect for Santos would be pretty ridiculous. Your post inspired me to do a quick search of "top 100 MLB prospects 2012." The first one I clicked on was http://fantasyrundown.com/2012_MLB_Prospects.html and they have Nestor Molina at #44 overall. I haven't heard of this publication, but a lot of the usual prospect names are on the list (Jesus Montero, Brett Jackson, Yasmani Grandal, Bubba Starling etc.) and it is being updated to account for the 2011 season and 2011 draft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (Soxfest @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 03:28 PM) Here is one opinion. http://seedlingstostars.com/2011/11/24/the...-nestor-molina/ I've never come across this site. I pretty much stick to BP and BA. But that's cool. His stock has risen quite a bit since last year. I'm cool with the trade. I don't overvalue relievers. In fact, I hate relievers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (danman31 @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 05:29 PM) A so-so starting pitcher is at least as valuable as a good closer but a decent closer now in the bigs is quite a bit more valuable than a guy who might be a so-so starter in a few years. For this deal to make sense, kw has to think he just swiped a very good starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 What the f***. Man, I loved Sergio. Getting only one player for him is a failure. And Buehrle leaving free agency? f*** it. I'm off the KW train. But blow the f***ing team up. Blow it the f*** up. But seriously, Molina looks good. But what the f***? Needed something else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 03:36 PM) What the f***. Man, I loved Sergio. Getting only one player for him is a failure. And Buehrle leaving free agency? f*** it. I'm off the KW train. But blow the f***ing team up. Blow it the f*** up. But seriously, Molina looks good. But what the f***? Needed something else. Pretty sure the KW train derailed about 3 years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 03:30 PM) Not that much. A catcher who put up a .779 OPS at the age of 24? I'd say that's a bit more than "not that much". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 03:40 PM) A catcher who put up a .779 OPS at the age of 24? I'd say that's a bit more than "not that much". Not one of Terry Ryan's finer moments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (Soxfest @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 03:28 PM) Here is one opinion. http://seedlingstostars.com/2011/11/24/the...-nestor-molina/ QUOTE (danman31 @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 03:29 PM) A so-so starting pitcher is at least as valuable as a good closer. These guys did QUOTE (BaseballNick @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 03:32 PM) Your post inspired me to do a quick search of "top 100 MLB prospects 2012." The first one I clicked on was http://fantasyrundown.com/2012_MLB_Prospects.html and they have Nestor Molina at #44 overall. I haven't heard of this publication, but a lot of the usual prospect names are on the list (Jesus Montero, Brett Jackson, Yasmani Grandal, Bubba Starling etc.) and it is being updated to account for the 2011 season and 2011 draft. ty! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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