Quin Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 03:38 PM) Pretty sure the KW train derailed about 3 years ago. I was still somewhat on it. But our farm better be f***ing stacked by the end of this offseason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 03:40 PM) A catcher who put up a .779 OPS at the age of 24? I'd say that's a bit more than "not that much". He wasn't a Top 50 prospect, right? In retrospect it was a lot but that doesn't really relate to my comment that a Top 50 prospect for Santos would be a pretty damn good return. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 03:44 PM) I was still somewhat on it. But our farm better be f***ing stacked by the end of this offseason. After all of the bumbling f***-ups by KW the last three years, this is what finally knocked you off? This is nothing compared to losing Gio the second time and Hudson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunofgold Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 Kinda puzzling since we had Santos at a low price for a long time. It is basically trading a decent pitcher (at worst) for a promising pitcher. Don't forget that Santos has only been pitching for a few years now since his conversion from SS. Santos might be getting better. Now we have to hope that Molina develops into a #1 or #2 starter. He is a promising pitcher and has a good chance of making the big leagues and succeeding...but this kinda like playing Let's Make A Deal with Monty Hall. We traded a solid reliever in the hope that Molina proves to be a solid starter. Thus, this could either way for us. This could be a bad deal if Santos stays at the same level or improves and Molina doesn't pan out. This could a good deal for us if Molina becomes a reliable starter. I dont know. Have to wait and see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 03:46 PM) He wasn't a Top 50 prospect, right? In retrospect it was a lot but that doesn't really relate to my comment that a Top 50 prospect for Santos would be a pretty damn good return. A quick Google search says BA had him as #58 to start 2010, so top 50? No. But damn close. Edited December 6, 2011 by LittleHurt05 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 03:36 PM) What the f***. Man, I loved Sergio. Getting only one player for him is a failure. And Buehrle leaving free agency? f*** it. I'm off the KW train. But blow the f***ing team up. Blow it the f*** up. But seriously, Molina looks good. But what the f***? Needed something else. I'm sure we could have gotten two crappier players instead. Would that be better? Also note that we give no salary relief, which surely would have netted us a fringe guy. But we aren't in a position to give salary relief. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 03:52 PM) A quick Google search says BA had him as #58 to start 2010, so top 50? No. But damn close. for some reason I didn't think he was in the top 100. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 02:45 PM) Robin Ventura. Don't trip. Took me a minute to figure that out. Ah, makes sense, thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 03:54 PM) for some reason I didn't think he was in the top 100. They also had Jared Mitchell as #55 & Tyler Flowers as #60 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 03:55 PM) They also had Jared Mitchell as #55 & Tyler Flowers as #60 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox_Sonix Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 04:55 PM) They also had Jared Mitchell as #55 & Tyler Flowers as #60 Wait...BA is sometimes wrong on some of their top 100 prospects? Well, s***... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 We have to consider that there were some red flags with Santos that may have concerned the Sox. Ie. Durability and over reliance on the slider. Like I said earlier, its all speculation. Nobody here really knows the market or the Sox motivation for moving Santos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 09:08 PM) He wasn't generally unknown to those who make it their business to know these things. I would love to know how many AA pitching prospects you or BMags could name off the top of your heads at 11 am this morning. Look at what people were saying they'd like to have for Santos a few days ago, and look at how happy they now are. They don't match up. I'm not a Molina expert, but it does worry me a whole hell of a lot that people aren't just split on whether he'll be a top of the line starter, but whether he'll even be a major league starter at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunofgold Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 Sirotka Santos? This just made Robin Ventura's job a lot harder. Ozzie had a hard time finally finding a closer with Sergio last year. Kinda think that Ventura needs a reliable closer. If Ventura going to have to audition guys during the regular season that is going to suck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 03:56 PM) Wait...BA is sometimes wrong on some of their top 100 prospects? Well, s***... C'mon, now. Those were two years ago. A lot can change in two years. You've got the best of the best (Harper, Trout, Stanton) and then the rest. Top prospect lists fluctuate all the time. The guys at BA, BP and other prospect sites never claim to be right all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (sunofgold @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 04:01 PM) Sirotka Santos? This just made Robin Ventura's job a lot harder. Ozzie had a hard time finally finding a closer with Sergio last year. Kinda think that Ventura needs a reliable closer. If Ventura going to have to audition guys during the regular season that is going to suck. lol. Sirotka Santos? What planet are you from? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 Now that Ventura has been mentioned a few times, I actually wonder what his take is. If he had any influence on this? Seems to make sense that Kenny would bring in a manager to grow with a rebuilding team... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macsandz Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 "Elite" Sergio is gonna love those AL East lefty hitters... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyAcosta41 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 Ex-Sox Santo(s) Elected to HOF In my opinion, some of the responses around here substantially overvalue Sergio and non-Mo closers generally. Sergio was a great story and a pretty good reliever too. I have a suspicion the league has figured him out a bit and his best days might be behind him, but only time will tell. So, I have no problem trading "high." But Kenny! Trading HIGH means ... umm ... trading ... HIGH. Ever hear of leverage??? Count me in with those who believe a more skilled GM might have received more for a young, low-mileage, cost-controlled reliever, with at times dominant stuff, who has had pretty darned good success already in the bigs than a non-stuff prospect with just a handful of games at AA. Most. Prospects. Don't. Make. It. More often than not, when a known big leaguer is traded for prospects, they are traded for MULTIPLE prospects (unless the prospects are virtual "can't miss" prospects or ones with ungodly tools -- by all accounts, while a good prospect, Molina is neither). Sure seems that WE generally have to trade multiple prospects when we trade for current major leaguers. Yes, I'm not in on the meetings and I don't know for sure, but doesn't it always APPEAR that KW just takes the first interesting offer and NEVER creates any sort of auction mentality when he makes his trades? Gammons suggested teams like the Red Sox and Orioles would have had great interest in Sergio. Rather than forever being stealth-Kenny and loving to surprise people with under-the-radar deals, how about notifying a lot of teams -- including some with strong rivalries -- that player X is available for the high bidder and pump-up-the-bidding? Seems other teams do this all the time and we NEVER, EVER do it. I've always loved Kenny's go-for-it mentality, but, increasingly, I just don't think he's very good at the skill-set required of a trade-making GM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 03:46 PM) After all of the bumbling f***-ups by KW the last three years, this is what finally knocked you off? This is nothing compared to losing Gio the second time and Hudson. I really loved Santos, hell I talked to him before his first game and was going to buy a Sergio jersey tee-shirt his first f***ing week as a big leaguer. He was signed for six years and all we get is...one prospect...when f***ing Papelbon is getting $50M+...ugh. I think Reed can do it...but Sergio showed he could. He was a legitimate closer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (CyAcosta41 @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 04:03 PM) Ex-Sox Santo(s) Elected to HOF That's what I read that thread title as, I thought it was a sarcastic response to some of the Santos love. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 04:03 PM) Now that Ventura has been mentioned a few times, I actually wonder what his take is. If he had any influence on this? Seems to make sense that Kenny would bring in a manager to grow with a rebuilding team... The hiring of Ventura was the first tip off that this is a rebuild. Managers of Ventura's green nature are not brought in to launch a championship run this year. They are brought in to grow and to learn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunofgold Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 Sale could close. Would management flip flop on this again and make Sale the closer? If we keep Danks then the rotation could be Danks/Floyd/Peavy/Humber/Stewart and maybe Molina could be put on the fast track to get some major league starts in 2012 and then fill Peavy's rotation spot in 2013???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 At first I wasn't a big fan. Santos for only a guy who made 5 starts in AA. Yet Molina had one of the better years of all pitchers in the minors. Usually KW tries to get too cute, and plumb an unknown guy who Coop can fix. For one, I'm on board with this deal. Maybe Paddy had some insights on Molina as well. If true, then KW is at least listening to other people instead of sticking with his own eyes and ears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 11:07 PM) The hiring of Ventura was the first tip off that this is a rebuild. Managers of Ventura's green nature are not brought in to launch a championship run this year. They are brought in to grow and to learn. If Kenny isn't moving Floyd or Danks, then this isn't a rebuild. If he's hanging onto them-at least until July-then the sox will still have a chance to compete for 2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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