Ventura wants to play Dunn in the field more

[SOXOBAMA]

Doesn't matter if he plays in the field or not.. It's going to be a long season with many young players

 

 

[joeynach]

Because they owe him good money and if his offensive WAR is more productive then his negative defensive WAR because he can not DH, you have to live with it.

 

You are basing that on nothing but heresy and your own opinion. I show up in court with facts and figures and you bring some un-measurable theory about how having to DH made him go from All Star good to epically bad. Grow up, thats the easy way out, do some research. How did Dunn do offensively on days he played the field, or back to back days played in the field. Please dont talk to me about sports radio caller comments like ayyyy its cuz hes a DH now he cant hit anymore. How about something concrete, hes aging, his bat speed decreased, the quality of pitching in the AL is stronger, it was the first time he was looked upon as the key to winning it all, he was unfamiliar with the pitchers, he gained weight.....come with at least something tangible!

[JorgeFabregas]

LOL@heresy

 

Anyway, Robin looks funny wearing that sweater and sporting big shadows under his eyes.

[southsider2k5]

You are basing that on nothing but heresy and your own opinion. I show up in court with facts and figures and you bring some un-measurable theory about how having to DH made him go from All Star good to epically bad. Grow up, thats the easy way out, do some research. How did Dunn do offensively on days he played the field, or back to back days played in the field. Please dont talk to me about sports radio caller comments like ayyyy its cuz hes a DH now he cant hit anymore. How about something concrete, hes aging, his bat speed decreased, the quality of pitching in the AL is stronger, it was the first time he was looked upon as the key to winning it all, he was unfamiliar with the pitchers, he gained weight.....come with at least something tangible!

 

And yet your whole rant was based on a single line by Ventura which had in it none of the thigns you spoke to. I would also invite you to speak to something tangible.

[joeynach]

f

And yet your whole rant was based on a single line by Ventura which had in it none of the thigns you spoke to. I would also invite you to speak to something tangible.

 

Was providing defensive WAR metrics and Defensive Runs above replacement numbers not tangible? I provided figures which prove why Ventura's statement was made with either lack or information or ignoring of available information. To which I was was repsonded with "yeah cuz he was DHing not playing the field". Which statement provided tangible assets and which didnt. And I asked him for some measureable information to back up his claim. I know where the information is, but I am not going to do his homework for him. You want to tell me why the reason Dunn was bad is b/c he was a DH then show me, dont tell me. So far this has yet to take place.

[southsider2k5]

f

 

Was providing defensive WAR metrics and Defensive Runs above replacement numbers not tangible? I provided figures which prove why Ventura's statement was made with either lack or information or ignoring of available information. To which I was was repsonded with "yeah cuz he was DHing not playing the field". Which statement provided tangible assets and which didnt. And I asked him for some measureable information to back up his claim. I know where the information is, but I am not going to do his homework for him. You want to tell me why the reason Dunn was bad is b/c he was a DH then show me, dont tell me. So far this has yet to take place.

 

If jumping to conclusions were an Olympic sport, you'd have taken home the gold in this thread.

[greg775]

You are basing that on nothing but heresy and your own opinion. I show up in court with facts and figures and you bring some un-measurable theory about how having to DH made him go from All Star good to epically bad. Grow up, thats the easy way out, do some research. How did Dunn do offensively on days he played the field, or back to back days played in the field. Please dont talk to me about sports radio caller comments like ayyyy its cuz hes a DH now he cant hit anymore. How about something concrete, hes aging, his bat speed decreased, the quality of pitching in the AL is stronger, it was the first time he was looked upon as the key to winning it all, he was unfamiliar with the pitchers, he gained weight.....come with at least something tangible!

 

I like your argument and your style.

The thought of Dunn playing the field sickens me as much as the thought of him whiffing a zillion more times next season.

Think about how Dunn, Rios and Peavy have ruined our team. Cause of paying them out the ass the shellshocked chairman is in line with a "rebuild." What a joke. A rebuild will make our team so irrelevant in Chicago.

Edited December 7, 2011 by greg775

[fathom]

I like your argument and your style.

The thought of Dunn playing the field sickens me as much as the thought of him whiffing a zillion more times next season.

Think about how Dunn, Rios and Peavy have ruined our team. Cause of paying them out the ass the shellshocked chairman is in line with a "rebuild." What a joke. A rebuild will make our team so irrelevant in Chicago.

 

We already were irrelevant with a 125 million dollar payroll and Ozzie as our manager.

[ptatc]

Ventura says Dunn will get more playing time in the field (its all over Twitter), including time in the OF. Again, another example of blatant disregard of advanced metrics, something we saw with Ozzie too (remember 75 pitch Peavy). Advanced statistics have a place in this game weather u were brought up with them or not, they are not just for mid twenties baseball bloggers. If you ignore them you will wind up playing a guy whose is -127.3 career defensive WAR player, the same guy who posted a staggering -37.3 def WAR season in 2010 for the Nats. Dude also owns a career -167 defensive runs above replacement figure (according to Baseball Info Solutions). Can some non archaic baseball thinker (of the media) please ask Robin if he is aware of things like this, even cares to look, and why he would play such an established poor defender in the field more. This isnt rocket science.

It may not be rocket science but are looking at it from a very narrow point of view. His defensive stats are awful but does this outweigh the fact that he will hit better when he plays in the field? you need to look at both sides. also your your point about 75 pitch Peavy is short sighted. If he doesn't pitch more than that he will never build up strength thus he would never be able to pitch more than that. He was coming off a major injury and needed to build up the strength.

 

You can quote stats all you want and most have some validity (but not reliability) to them. However you also need to look at the player as well and there may be a better way to look at it. As any researcher knows I can create any statistical model to say what I want, it doesn't mean it is generalizable to every case.

[Dick Allen]

It may not be rocket science but are looking at it from a very narrow point of view. His defensive stats are awful but does this outweigh the fact that he will hit better when he plays in the field? you need to look at both sides. also your your point about 75 pitch Peavy is short sighted. If he doesn't pitch more than that he will never build up strength thus he would never be able to pitch more than that. He was coming off a major injury and needed to build up the strength.

 

You can quote stats all you want and most have some validity (but not reliability) to them. However you also need to look at the player as well and there may be a better way to look at it. As any researcher knows I can create any statistical model to say what I want, it doesn't mean it is generalizable to every case.

Dunn actually hit better as a DH than he did playing the field. He was 14-122 when playing the field with 60 strikeouts. That pencils out to a .115 average. It truly is amazing how bad he was in 2011. I think he's a lock to improve, but he can improve a bunch and still be bad.

[pktmotion]

Because they owe him good money and if his offensive WAR is more productive then his negative defensive WAR because he can not DH, you have to live with it.

 

Totally agree. But to consider him for the OF is quite a crude joke to all parties involved.

Although, I do think him playing 1B will allow him to step into a more NL rhythm of game.

 

This however would require a Konerko trade.

[ptatc]

Dunn actually hit better as a DH than he did playing the field. He was 14-122 when playing the field with 60 strikeouts. That pencils out to a .115 average. It truly is amazing how bad he was in 2011. I think he's a lock to improve, but he can improve a bunch and still be bad.

 

Go back to the old faithful sample size arguement. He was obviously uncomfortable all of last year. It may have been the DH, the new league, new pressure environment, surgery early in the season, tkae your pick. I think Ventura is being a good people manager when he is trying to make Dunn a little more comfortable this year.

[caulfield12]

Ventura says Dunn will get more playing time in the field (its all over Twitter), including time in the OF. Again, another example of blatant disregard of advanced metrics, something we saw with Ozzie too (remember 75 pitch Peavy). Advanced statistics have a place in this game weather u were brought up with them or not, they are not just for mid twenties baseball bloggers. If you ignore them you will wind up playing a guy whose is -127.3 career defensive WAR player, the same guy who posted a staggering -37.3 def WAR season in 2010 for the Nats. Dude also owns a career -167 defensive runs above replacement figure (according to Baseball Info Solutions). Can some non archaic baseball thinker (of the media) please ask Robin if he is aware of things like this, even cares to look, and why he would play such an established poor defender in the field more. This isnt rocket science.

 

 

It's simple, there's this theory out there (Dunn needs to be out on the field at 1B or in LF) that it's the best way to get his bat to come alive.

 

It also provides some further smoke to the fire about the possibility/likelihood of Carlos Quentin being traded.

[ScottyDo]

I think it's grasping at straws by a bunch of people (i.e. everybody) who have no idea how to explain his insane plummet. "Ummmm....x changed....so let's change x back? I guess?"

 

Can't say I have a better theory for his inexplicable change myself, though I'd much rather put him on the bench than let him see the field. No sense in hurting things if you have no clue whether or not it will yield any benefit.

[ScottyDo]

Also, what I REALLY don't want to see is him start the season in the field and hitting well, because then people could say "OMG IT MUST BE BECAUSE HE'S IN THE FIELD!" and demand that he be in the field at all times -- when, in reality, he stands a good chance of reverting to offensive form regardless of whether or not he plays defense. Start him off at DH, please, so we can see if he'll figure it out on his own without seriously harming the D.