KW and SOX fans are to blame for this mess..

[ewokpelts]

I am willing to bet our attendence suck in 08, when we went to the playoffs.

Sox drew 2.5 million fans in 2008.

[ewokpelts]

Then you are a Cubs' fan, lol.

 

This circular argument always goes around in the same directions.

 

I will never refuse to go to a Sox game or pay for tickets when I have have the opportunity, but I don't live in Chicago so it's a lot harder.

 

2008 was primarily a result of the disaster known as 2007. Fans were skeptical after the end of 2006 and most of 2007. It's the nature of Sox fans, you know that.

 

more BS. it's ok to stop being a sox fan if they lose 100 games?

[ewokpelts]

Not to mention the Sox have train and bus lines that drop you off at a fraction of that right in front of the ballpark.

Well, the united center does have two train lines near it, but that also involves a lot of walking. And the roosevelt station is almost a mile from soldier field's gate. the sox and cubs have the closest rail options.

[caulfield12]

bulls*** to the bolded part. sox offer 1/2 price mondays, and plenty of other offers. the 2012 monday price is as low as $7. that's less than the cost of a beer at the park.

 

if you're not an upper deck snob, you will find good deals to go to a game.

 

as for parking, the united center has parking from $20-$35, and the bears have parking that STARTS at $35(if you're lucky to get it when they go on sale). so the sox selling parking at $23 is within the range of chicago sports. ALSO, the sox allow you to tailgate, something that cannot be said at the united center.

 

 

When you have the 4th highest average ticket price in all of MLB, that's not exactly targeting middle class families.

 

The majority of the tickets in the ballpark are quite expensive. Bleacher seats (which SHOULD be for middle class fans, and are in most stadiums) are way way out of whack with reality.

 

And I've never understood the fixation with segregating the upper decks and lower decks so much...it's like being treated to steerage class on the Titanic.

 

And baseball's still unique having a season 2X or 8-9-10X as long as the average basketball/football season in terms of home games.

Edited December 8, 2011 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

more BS. it's ok to stop being a sox fan if they lose 100 games?

 

 

Okay. You're Brooks Boyer. Your main appeal to sell season tickets to White Sox fans is loyalty and responsibility/obligation to support the organization?

 

That's not the way most professional sports franchises operate.

 

Nobody said anything about not being a White Sox fan any longer. I could care less at this point if they trade Ramirez, Danks, Floyd, Thornton, Quentin, AJ and Konerko. I'll still cheer for them and follow the games wherever I am in the world, and post here.

 

Did you organize all the season tickets holders together to raise $14 million in venture capital to pay Mark Buehrle for this season?

 

If you really want to fight the majority of posters here, go right ahead, but you're not going to find many on your side as long as Kenny Williams is still around as the General Manager.

 

 

[ewokpelts]

When you have the 4th highest average ticket price in all of MLB, that's not exactly targeting middle class families.

 

The majority of the tickets in the ballpark are quite expensive. Bleacher seats (which SHOULD be for middle class fans, and are in most stadiums) are way way out of whack with reality.

 

And I've never understood the fixation with segregating the upper decks and lower decks so much...it's like being treated to steerage class on the Titanic.

 

And baseball's still unique having a season 2X or 8-9-10X as long as the average basketball/football season in terms of home games.

 

 

Well, speaking as a former bleacher weekend plan holder, i can agree those prices may be a bit high now. But let's not kid ouraselves. The bleachers have ALWAYS sold well at new comiskey. Sox raise the prices, and people still buy them. It may not be as extreme as wrigley's bleachers, but the dollars speak for themselves.

 

you also seem to forget that other stadium have a LOT of super expensive premium seating options. when the rich man seats can be jacked up due to premium offerings, then teams can subsidize thier lower cost options easier. the sox only have the scout seats and jim beam club at a super premium level.

 

Upper reserve tickets go up the least, and are the ones most likely to go DOWN(like they have this year, from $17 to $14 for individual sales).

 

again, unless you're an upper deck snob, there are deals to be had.

 

 

and let's not forget the sox give out TONS of free tickets to kids, through the kids club(2 free per child), perfect attendance and straight a's, and other initiatives. and they offer steep discounts to groups and special events. the sox "grand slam groups" page on www.whitesox.com mentions discounts up to 1/2 off for most games.

[ewokpelts]

Okay. You're Brooks Boyer. Your main appeal to sell season tickets to White Sox fans is loyalty and responsibility/obligation to support the organization?

 

That's not the way most professional sports franchises operate.

 

Nobody said anything about not being a White Sox fan any longer. I could care less at this point if they trade Ramirez, Danks, Floyd, Thornton, Quentin, AJ and Konerko. I'll still cheer for them and follow the games wherever I am in the world, and post here.

 

Did you organize all the season tickets holders together to raise $14 million in venture capital to pay Mark Buehrle for this season?

 

If you really want to fight the majority of posters here, go right ahead, but you're not going to find many on your side as long as Kenny Williams is still around as the General Manager.

i tend to disagree with brooks on a lot of things, but I find it insulting that some out of town sox fan thinks people who stay loyal to thier team, win or lose, is less of a fan than the guy that says "f*** these bums" when the sox lose.

 

 

[Iwritecode]

I am so tired of Sox fans bashing Jerry Reinsdorf.. The Sox has been in the top 10 in payroll many times but the fans continue not to show up to the ballpark.

 

I been to the ballpark many times while we were contending first place, on a warm sunny night and the stadium was still half full..

 

The only good way for attendance to go up a significant amount in a single season is to either build a new stadium or win the World Series. Since the Sox have done neither of these in quite some time, they have to build up the attendance gradually by winning consistently. Something they seem to have a problem doing.

 

Typically attendance jumps a little during the season the team is winning and more the NEXT season depending on what they do in the playoffs.

 

For example in 2005 it jumped +412,297 over 2004. The largest increase since they won the division in 2000 when we fans were still starved for a WS. Then in 2006 it went up by +614,580. The largest single year increase since they opened the new stadium. The problem is the team didn't continue with it's success and the attendance started to drop again.

 

Even in 2008 the team was just barely good enough to make the playoffs and only won a single game when they got there. Since then the expectations for the team each year haven't been great and they've proved us right with a 2nd place finish and a couple of 3rd place finishes.

 

Had the team not completely fallen on it's face in 2006 and 2007 and won the division 2, 3 or even 4 times instead of just once since 2005 the attendance would've been much better.

 

Simply being a contending team and making the playoffs once every few years isn't enough to make 30,000+ show up at the park every night.

Edited December 8, 2011 by Iwritecode

[Middle Buffalo]

Baseball should have revenue sharing and a hard floor and ceiling cap. The problem is, MLB wants the big market teams to be good because it's better for ratings (generally speaking) if the Red Sox and Yankees are in the playoffs every year.

 

25K per game should be plenty. The problem is that MLB teams base their payrolls on having capacity crowds. It's just not realistic in most markets (including the Sox and Mets, big market teams that are 2nd in their own towns) that teams will have sellouts nightly. 81 home games are difficult to sell out for all but 3 or 4 teams.

 

The Sox payroll has gone from $17M in 1991 to $66M in 2001 to $128M last season. Is that reflective in any way of the economy? Have fans had a similar rate of salary increase? I'm sure the average price of tickets has at least doubled in that time. The prices of parking and concessions, too.

 

 

[spiderman]

I am so tired of Sox fans bashing Jerry Reinsdorf.. The Sox has been in the top 10 in payroll many times but the fans continue not to show up to the ballpark.

 

I been to the ballpark many times while we were contending first place, on a warm sunny night and the stadium was still half full..

 

If Kenny Williams is making moves based upon fan reaction, which I don't believe he is, then you would have justification to at least blame the fans indirectly.

 

As to the current state of this team, Williams deserves most of the blame (if you remove the blame from players with a history of producing, not producing) - the farm system has produced some players on the major league team, but it's amongst the worst in the majors and add to that a team with a payroll that has to be cut, in part to moves that proved costly, and you have the makings of a team that will have overrated players (in terms of contract vs. production), little help coming from the minors and the need to move the veteran pieces with some talent in order to shed payroll and replenish the youth in the minors.

[Milkman delivers]

The only good way for attendance to go up a significant amount in a single season is to either build a new stadium or win the World Series. Since the Sox have done neither of these in quite some time, they have to build up the attendance gradually by winning consistently. Something they seem to have a problem doing.

 

Typically attendance jumps a little during the season the team is winning and more the NEXT season depending on what they do in the playoffs.

 

For example in 2005 it jumped +412,297 over 2004. The largest increase since they won the division in 2000 when we fans were still starved for a WS. Then in 2006 it went up by +614,580. The largest single year increase since they opened the new stadium. The problem is the team didn't continue with it's success and the attendance started to drop again.

 

Even in 2008 the team was just barely good enough to make the playoffs and only won a single game when they got there. Since then the expectations for the team each year haven't been great and they've proved us right with a 2nd place finish and a couple of 3rd place finishes.

 

Had the team not completely fallen on it's face in 2006 and 2007 and won the division 2, 3 or even 4 times instead of just once since 2005 the attendance would've been much better.

 

Simply being a contending team and making the playoffs once every few years isn't enough to make 30,000+ show up at the park every night.

 

Which is a good thing. It shows that people aren't exactly the sheep we usually characterize them as.

[The Ginger Kid]

I'd rather blame Dunn, Peavy and Rios. This firesale never happens if we don't suck in 2011.

this.

 

We're stuck in between re-loading and re-building. Rudderless.

[VictoryMC98]

Economy.

 

Ticket prices.

 

Parking.

 

Prioritizing your family/having enough money to buy Christmas presents, take a family vacation OR buy an Ozzie Plan.

 

Not a difficult choice for all but the most ardent of Sox fans.

 

With the product on the field the last 3 years, and with how things are ending with Buehrle and probably 1/3rd of the roster, what fans would want to support that type of organization? To watch Dunn/Rios/Peavy? REALLY?

 

The White Sox have never priced their packages to the middle class or casual fan since they opened the new ballpark. With the White Sox, it literally is about that Top 10% and corporations, not the stereotypical blue collar South Side diehard fan of the 50's, 60's, 70's and 80's.

 

If Kenny Williams was gone, you'd have a heckuva lot more optimism about the future.

Still, the Blackhawks have shown you can take a franchise from the dumps of despair back to the penthouse fairly quickly.

 

My thoughts exactly! You don't have the man that created the problem try and solve what he thought was the right direction of a team... Most Owners get that.

Edited December 8, 2011 by VictoryMC98

[SOXOBAMA]

If Kenny Williams is making moves based upon fan reaction, which I don't believe he is, then you would have justification to at least blame the fans indirectly.

 

As to the current state of this team, Williams deserves most of the blame (if you remove the blame from players with a history of producing, not producing) - the farm system has produced some players on the major league team, but it's amongst the worst in the majors and add to that a team with a payroll that has to be cut, in part to moves that proved costly, and you have the makings of a team that will have overrated players (in terms of contract vs. production), little help coming from the minors and the need to move the veteran pieces with some talent in order to shed payroll and replenish the youth in the minors.

 

I will never blame KW for Dunn or Peavy. 95% of Sox fans agree with these moves at the time it happen.. Would make any fan a hypocrite to blame him cause of Dunn had an off year or that Peavy got injured.

 

I will blame KW for letting Hudson, Gio, and the Nick Swisher trade to the Yanks. I will also blame him for a brutal minor league system. Rios was a stupid mistake as well

 

I respect Reinsdorf a lot. My only disagreement with him, is that I wish he would have fired KW, Hahn and Buddy Bell this off season and start all over again, like the north side club has.

 

I go to about 50- 60 games a year to support the team that I love.

Edited December 8, 2011 by SOXOBAMA

[Jordan4life_2007]

I will never blame KW for Dunn or Peavy. 95% of Sox fans agree with these moves at the time it happen.. Would make any fan a hypocrite to blame him cause of Dunn had an off year or that Peavy got injured.

 

I will blame KW for letting Hudson, Gio, and the Nick Swisher trade to the Yanks. I will also blame him for a brutal minor league system.

 

I respect Reinsdorf a lot. My only disagreement with him, is that I wish he would have fired KW, Hahn and Buddy Bell this off season and start all over again, like the north side club has.

 

I go to about 50- 60 games a year to support the team that I love.

 

You take on that type of contract for a guy that pitched half his home games where death to all things offense occurs, you're taking on a major risk. Peavy was also injured at the time of the trade. I'll give you Dunn. I was ecstatic.

[bmags]

GMs shouldn't crowd source their decisions.

[greg775]

You take on that type of contract for a guy that pitched half his home games where death to all things offense occurs, you're taking on a major risk. Peavy was also injured at the time of the trade. I'll give you Dunn. I was ecstatic.

 

Rios was known as a dog.

How many teams acquire pitchers when they are on the DL at the time?

Dunn ... I blame KW cause it didn't work out. Yes he deserves the blame, just like Pritchard deserved the blame for drafting Oden when ALL of basketball said to take Oden.

That signing of the bum Dunn cost Sox fans Mark Buehrle. FIRE KENNY!

Edited December 8, 2011 by greg775

[Jordan4life_2007]

Rios was known as a dog.

How many teams acquire pitchers when they are on the DL at the time?

Dunn ... I blame KW cause it didn't work out. Yes he deserves the blame, just like Pritchard deserved the blame for drafting Oden when ALL of basketball said to take Oden.

That signing of the bum Dunn cost Sox fans Mark Buehrle. FIRE KENNY!

 

You lost me when you brought Greg Oden into this. What the hell?

[SOXOBAMA]

Rios was known as a dog.

How many teams acquire pitchers when they are on the DL at the time?

Dunn ... I blame KW cause it didn't work out. Yes he deserves the blame, just like Pritchard deserved the blame for drafting Oden when ALL of basketball said to take Oden.

That signing of the bum Dunn cost Sox fans Mark Buehrle. FIRE KENNY!

 

Peavy wasn't on the DL cause of his arm. So I don't blame KW at all for that move.

[CyAcosta41]

You sound like one of the sensationalizing sports columnists in this town. You truly think the Sox FANS have any amount of blame in this mess?

 

Please.

 

Sox fans have shown over and over again that they will support a quality product. Not a big payroll team masquerading as a quality product ... not clever advertisements trying to dupe us into thinking that we're seeing a quality product ... but a true quality professional baseball team (and organization). When THAT is on the field, Sox fans come out and pay to support the team.

 

This shouldn't surprise ownership. They're well aware that Sox fans support quality and vote with their wallets against mediocrity and worse. It's been this way in this town forever. Hearing KW whine about having no money (in those years when his allowance is cut) is so tiresome. You have no money Kenny because your performance hasn't brought in the revenue, which increases your allowance. Instead of whining about it, do something about the product on the field. And if THAT is beyond you, then ownership needs to bring someone else in who can do that job.

 

Sox fans are to BLAME? Wow, you've really bought yourself a bill of goods, dude.

[VictoryMC98]

You lost me when you brought Greg Oden into this. What the hell?

 

I think he wants the Sox to draft him.. ?

[LittleHurt05]

You lost me when you brought Greg Oden into this. What the hell?

 

Greg Oden's knees

are the reason Dunn is a bum.

Then we lost Mark Buehrle

Ozzie will won WS in Florida too.

Hall of Famer!

[fathom]

Rios was known as a dog.

How many teams acquire pitchers when they are on the DL at the time?

Dunn ... I blame KW cause it didn't work out. Yes he deserves the blame, just like Pritchard deserved the blame for drafting Oden when ALL of basketball said to take Oden.

That signing of the bum Dunn cost Sox fans Mark Buehrle. FIRE KENNY!

 

And you can just as easily say that Ozzie getting his team to underachieve cost Sox fans Mark Buerhle. FIRE OZZIE!

 

Greg, please just stop.

[fathom]

Rios was known as a dog.

 

If that's true (and it is), then the Marlins really screwed up hiring Ozzie. Hanley is a bigger dog than Rios, and it's obvious Ozzie can't motivate anyone then I guess.

[Milkman delivers]

You sound like one of the sensationalizing sports columnists in this town. You truly think the Sox FANS have any amount of blame in this mess?

 

Please.

 

Sox fans have shown over and over again that they will support a quality product. Not a big payroll team masquerading as a quality product ... not clever advertisements trying to dupe us into thinking that we're seeing a quality product ... but a true quality professional baseball team (and organization). When THAT is on the field, Sox fans come out and pay to support the team.

 

This shouldn't surprise ownership. They're well aware that Sox fans support quality and vote with their wallets against mediocrity and worse. It's been this way in this town forever. Hearing KW whine about having no money (in those years when his allowance is cut) is so tiresome. You have no money Kenny because your performance hasn't brought in the revenue, which increases your allowance. Instead of whining about it, do something about the product on the field. And if THAT is beyond you, then ownership needs to bring someone else in who can do that job.

 

Sox fans are to BLAME? Wow, you've really bought yourself a bill of goods, dude.

 

You need to post more, dude. You have it perfect.