Braun tests postitive for PEDs

[iamshack]

Watch Braun hit about 12 homers this year.

I'll take the over

[LittleHurt05]

But that does not mean he was found not guilty.

 

Ok, but it also means that he wasn't found guilty.

[Balta1701]

What I was getting at is the quality control procedure exists for a reason - because without such a procedure it is possible a sample could produce unreliable results - how do you know something didn't honestly happen to the sample?

Because there's every reason to believe that an acceptable chain of custody was still maintained throughout the process. This may not meet the high legal standard demanded by the players association, but their job of "protecting their players" is different from the standard that an outside observer can use.

 

There's really no obvious reason to think that this sample was any more likely to have been contaminated than any other positive test MLB has done. The speeding ticket example is a great one...if the cop fails to fill out the ticket properly, it doesn't mean you weren't speeding, everyone knows you were speeding, the judge knows you were speeding, the cop knows you were speeding, you know you were speeding, but they can't follow through with the punishment.

[Balta1701]

Ok, but it also means that he wasn't found guilty.

But a rational outside observer, based on these reports, really ought to conclude that he's guilty as sin.

[ChiSox_Sonix]

Ok, but it also means that he wasn't found guilty.

 

Neither was OJ

[southsider2k5]

Because there's every reason to believe that an acceptable chain of custody was still maintained throughout the process. This may not meet the high legal standard demanded by the players association, but their job of "protecting their players" is different from the standard that an outside observer can use.

 

There's really no obvious reason to think that this sample was any more likely to have been contaminated than any other positive test MLB has done. The speeding ticket example is a great one...if the cop fails to fill out the ticket properly, it doesn't mean you weren't speeding, everyone knows you were speeding, the judge knows you were speeding, the cop knows you were speeding, you know you were speeding, but they can't follow through with the punishment.

 

They also find you not guilty when that happens...

[iamshack]

Because there's every reason to believe that an acceptable chain of custody was still maintained throughout the process. This may not meet the high legal standard demanded by the players association, but their job of "protecting their players" is different from the standard that an outside observer can use.

 

There's really no obvious reason to think that this sample was any more likely to have been contaminated than any other positive test MLB has done. The speeding ticket example is a great one...if the cop fails to fill out the ticket properly, it doesn't mean you weren't speeding, everyone knows you were speeding, the judge knows you were speeding, the cop knows you were speeding, you know you were speeding, but they can't follow through with the punishment.

Yeah, I understand procedural errors.

 

The argument I am making is that procedures exist for a reason. Without them, funny business sometimes occurs.

 

As to your "no obvious reason" point about the contamination, this is entirely irrelevant. Whether some contamination occurred that was obvious or completely impossible to prove, the possible effect is the same.

[southsider2k5]

@MarcNYY618 someone dumb enough to not check when FedEx closes isn't going to smart enough to make a false positive

[Balta1701]

They also find you not guilty when that happens...

No, they don't find you "Not guilty", they find that they are unable to bring the charges and drop them. If, however, an appropriately filled out version of the document were to be produced in some legal way (and not just fabricated), then the charges/ticket could be refiled.

[Balta1701]

As to your "no obvious reason" point about the contamination, this is entirely irrelevant. Whether some contamination occurred that was obvious or completely impossible to prove, the possible effect is the same.

Hopefully Pt can chime in on this one...at what point was the sample supposed to be mailed...was it before it was tested at all, or was it after an initial test had already shown it was positive and it was to be sent off for further confirmation?

[southsider2k5]

Page 38

 

http://mlbplayers.mlb.com/pa/pdf/jda.pdf

[iamshack]

Hopefully Pt can chime in on this one...at what point was the sample supposed to be mailed...was it before it was tested at all, or was it after an initial test had already shown it was positive and it was to be sent off for further confirmation?

I understand what you're trying to say, but it really doesn't matter. The procedure does not exclude gaps in the chain of custody as long as "no obvious contamination" is present.

 

The people who wrote the procedure determined that it was enough to disqualify the results if the sample didn't follow a specific chain of custody, and this sample did not.

 

I could just as easily say that this guy's "I thought the FedEx was closed" excuse is nonsense and he tampered with the sample as you could say there was "no obvious" signs of contamination.

 

[Balta1701]

I understand what you're trying to say, but it really doesn't matter. The procedure does not exclude gaps in the chain of custody as long as "no obvious contamination" is present.

 

The people who wrote the procedure determined that it was enough to disqualify the results if the sample didn't follow a specific chain of custody, and this sample did not.

 

I could just as easily say that this guy's "I thought the FedEx was closed" excuse is nonsense and he tampered with the sample as you could say there was "no obvious" signs of contamination.

I understand what the rules of the procedure are and why they exist...and I repeat, MLB can't suspend him if they didn't follow their own rules.

 

All I'm trying to say is that there's every reason for an outside observer to judge him as a juicer.

[GoSox05]

@MarcNYY618 someone dumb enough to not check when FedEx closes isn't going to smart enough to make a false positive

 

 

I always keep some extra synthetic testosterone around the house. You never know when you are going to have a urine sample in the fridge.

[Balta1701]

Page 38

 

http://mlbplayers.mlb.com/pa/pdf/jda.pdf

From reading that, it seems like by the time it reaches the point its being shipped it should already be an anonymous sample (or samples), such that the person shipping it couldn't have known whose sample they were dealing with, am I reading that correctly?

[LittleHurt05]

But a rational outside observer, based on these reports, really ought to conclude that he's guilty as sin.

 

Yeah, probably. But to say he was found guilty to be using a banned substance is wrong. According to MLB, the positive sample had enough circumstance around it that it can't be considered legit. Rules are rules, Bud Selig strikes again.

[southsider2k5]

I always keep some extra synthetic testosterone around the house. You never know when you are going to have a urine sample in the fridge.

 

You never know when you are going to have a chance to f*** over the MVP afterall.

[iamshack]

I understand what the rules of the procedure are and why they exist...and I repeat, MLB can't suspend him if they didn't follow their own rules.

 

All I'm trying to say is that there's every reason for an outside observer to judge him as a juicer.

Unfortunately this is true. This is why the results were not supposed to be leaked until AFTER his appeal was ruled on.

 

 

[GoSox05]

I wonder if Braun has been using his whole career or if this was just something he did for the playoffs.

 

I guess will see this year.

[ChiSox_Sonix]

Yeah, probably. But to say he was found guilty to be using a banned substance is wrong. According to MLB, the positive sample had enough circumstance around it that it can't be considered legit. Rules are rules, Bud Selig strikes again.

 

And according to the state of California, OJ Simpson did not kill his wife

[iamshack]

I'm going to be really interested to hear what Braun has to say today, because I don't think this is the only problem he had with the test.

 

Call me naive, but I still don't think he was taking anything.

[iamshack]

I wonder if Braun has been using his whole career or if this was just something he did for the playoffs.

 

I guess will see this year.

He's passed many, many drug tests throughout his career.

 

"We provided complete cooperation throughout, despite the highly unusual circumstances. I have been an open book, willing to share details from every aspect of my life as part of this investigation, because I have nothing to hide. I have passed over 25 drug tests in my career, including at least three in the past year."

 

ESPN

[LittleHurt05]

And according to the state of California, OJ Simpson did not kill his wife

 

Yup. Innocent until proven guilty. Welcome to the greatest county in the world.

[Magnus]

He's passed many, many drug tests throughout his career.

 

So did Marion Jones but she still took tons of illegal drugs during that time.

[iamshack]

So did Marion Jones but she still took tons of illegal drugs during that time.

Touche