Magnus Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 QUOTE (G&T @ Feb 28, 2012 -> 08:56 PM) The collector released a statement (USA Today). I'm very interested to read the decision to see what the panel was thinking here. Just read that article too. "Great" to know that Braun while saving his own face is making life miserable for someone much more honest than himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimsonWeltall Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 25, 2012 -> 11:29 PM) Passan IF he's right and "Fridge storage by the collector" is a common procedure for most other testing programs, then even if it's not in MLB's program, then the people who are pretending that somehow we should still pretend he's "clean" have even less to stand on. How do you get off on a technicality when that technicality isn't even written? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 QUOTE (G&T @ Feb 28, 2012 -> 01:56 PM) The collector released a statement (USA Today). I'm very interested to read the decision to see what the panel was thinking here. So if I understand all of that correctly, Braun should be able to identify his sample by its numbers on its seals, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 QUOTE (G&T @ Feb 28, 2012 -> 01:56 PM) The collector released a statement (USA Today). I'm very interested to read the decision to see what the panel was thinking here. And just like that, I hate Ryan Braun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 QUOTE (CrimsonWeltall @ Feb 28, 2012 -> 02:54 PM) How do you get off on a technicality when that technicality isn't even written? Braun's lawyers convinced the arbiter, who obviously is not familiar with the process, that the samples were not secured. Which left reasonable doubt in his mind. This is why baseball thought they had an open and shut case. This is the common practice but the arbiter didn't think it was secure enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G&T Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 28, 2012 -> 03:56 PM) So if I understand all of that correctly, Braun should be able to identify his sample by its numbers on its seals, right? Well he probably wouldn't remember the numbers on the seals. The numbers are probably kept by the testing company and maybe shared with MLB to verify when the results are in. But theoretically yes. Edited February 28, 2012 by G&T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 The problem is factual inconsistencies. I believe there is evidence that FEDEX facilities were open that night, or at least on Saturday etc. Therefore if under oath the tester said "There were no other facilities", if that is not true, then 1) the tester lied or 2) the tester never really looked to see. Either way, youve got a problem because the entire case is built on the tester being a believable/credible witness, and within the first 5 seconds youve already destroyed it. The simplest question is: If you were so concerned about procedure and safeguarding the specimen, why did you not look to find other FEDEX facilities that night? If you were so concerned, etc, etc, why did you not look to find a facility immediately the next morning? (And the ultimate question that you never ask, but you argue) What were you doing for over 48 hours that prevented you from turning in the specimen? I assume in the future MLB will rectify these issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimsonWeltall Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Feb 28, 2012 -> 10:14 PM) The problem is factual inconsistencies. I believe there is evidence that FEDEX facilities were open that night, or at least on Saturday etc. Therefore if under oath the tester said "There were no other facilities", if that is not true, then 1) the tester lied or 2) the tester never really looked to see. Either way, youve got a problem because the entire case is built on the tester being a believable/credible witness, and within the first 5 seconds youve already destroyed it. The simplest question is: If you were so concerned about procedure and safeguarding the specimen, why did you not look to find other FEDEX facilities that night? If you were so concerned, etc, etc, why did you not look to find a facility immediately the next morning? (And the ultimate question that you never ask, but you argue) What were you doing for over 48 hours that prevented you from turning in the specimen? I assume in the future MLB will rectify these issues. The collector didn't say no FedEx locations were open; he said none would have shipped the package before Monday. So, the box was either going to sit in FedEx's office for 48 hours or sit in his house for 48 hours. The standard protocol was for him to hold on to it because his possession is a more controlled environment than FedEx. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 So in Wisconsin Fedex doesnt do weekend deliveries? Because according to Fedex, they do: http://www.fedex.com/us/customersupport/shipping/index.html And just so you know, 8 miles from the park is a 24 hour Fedex facility: FedEx Kinko's is now FedEx Office Print & Ship Center 17925 W Bluemound Rd Brookfield, WI 53045 (262) 792-1800 View details, directions & map Mon Open 24 Hours Tue Open 24 Hours Wed Open 24 Hours Thu Open 24 Hours Fri Open 24 Hours Sat Open 24 Hours Sun Open 24 Hours And it took express drop offs until 4pm on Saturday. It took me 1 minute to find this information, again I ask, what was the collector doing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Accept packages vs. actually ship them is the distinction I read in his statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Feb 28, 2012 -> 03:28 PM) So in Wisconsin Fedex doesnt do weekend deliveries? Because according to Fedex, they do: http://www.fedex.com/us/customersupport/shipping/index.html And just so you know, 8 miles from the park is a 24 hour Fedex facility: FedEx Kinko's is now FedEx Office Print & Ship Center 17925 W Bluemound Rd Brookfield, WI 53045 (262) 792-1800 View details, directions & map Mon Open 24 Hours Tue Open 24 Hours Wed Open 24 Hours Thu Open 24 Hours Fri Open 24 Hours Sat Open 24 Hours Sun Open 24 Hours And it took express drop offs until 4pm on Saturday. It took me 1 minute to find this information, again I ask, what was the collector doing? I completed my collections at Miller Park at approximately 5:00 p.m. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 (edited) I thought it was Friday, meaning he had the whole morning Saturday. Okay I was wrong, it appears to be October 1, which would have been Saturday. Given that information, it is a complete cluster, because yes Fedex was open, but no it wasnt doing deliveries. Edited February 28, 2012 by Soxbadger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Feb 28, 2012 -> 03:29 PM) Accept packages vs. actually ship them is the distinction I read in his statement. And he went on to say that he could store the sample under more favorable conditions for urine storage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Feb 28, 2012 -> 03:32 PM) I thought it was Friday, meaning he had the whole morning Saturday. October 1st was a Saturday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Feb 28, 2012 -> 03:32 PM) I thought it was Friday, meaning he had the whole morning Saturday. Saturday, October 1st. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Yeah I thought Friday for some reason, going back and looking at the date, it appears that the collector was in a bad spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 So by this "interpretation", any positive test MLB ever took on a Saturday would have been ruled out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 28, 2012 -> 03:35 PM) So by this "interpretation", any positive test MLB ever took on a Saturday would have been ruled out? Presumably he could have still dropped it at FedEx, but the sample would have sat at room temperature for a period of time. CoC wouldn't have been broken, but I don't know if MLB has some specific requirements for how the sample is stored. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Balta, Basically yes. (Almost makes you wonder why MLB is testing on Saturday given the rules). If the collector took it to Fedex and left it there, MLB probably has a better argument in terms of chain of custody, but they also have a weaker argument in terms of "was the sample stored correctly". That being said, how can you have a policy and not specifically outline this very issue? Did they never think that there would be a test on Saturday/Sunday and there would need to be protocol for what they should do with the sample? Its strange, I just assumed that MLB wasnt stupid enough to do a test on a day they know the sample cant be sent for over 24 hours and have basically no guidelines as to what should be done. Kind of ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Feb 28, 2012 -> 03:32 PM) I thought it was Friday, meaning he had the whole morning Saturday. Okay I was wrong, it appears to be October 1, which would have been Saturday. Given that information, it is a complete cluster, because yes Fedex was open, but no it wasnt doing deliveries. You sir, just lost your case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 One theory why the arb. ruled the way he did: to keep his job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 You mean, I was doing something entirely different, relying entirely on memory and mixed up the day of the week. Yeah, it happens, Im far from perfect. That being said, MLB lost the day they had a test on Saturday, that required it to be shipped by Fedex, when Fedex doesnt ship on Sundays. Maybe they should use UPS, because I believe they do have some Sunday options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Feb 28, 2012 -> 03:46 PM) You mean, I was doing something entirely different, relying entirely on memory and mixed up the day of the week. Yeah, it happens, Im far from perfect. That being said, MLB lost the day they had a test on Saturday, that required it to be shipped by Fedex, when Fedex doesnt ship on Sundays. Maybe they should use UPS, because I believe they do have some Sunday options. Oh, come on, the way you argue around here in every thread condemns anyone who doesn't get their facts straight and you start posting exact quotes. Now, you screw up your argument and you were "relying entirely on memory" and are "farm from perfect". It's all good. If you can't simply post, "jeez, I was wrong", that's your thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 (edited) You mean: Today, 03:32 PM I thought it was Friday, meaning he had the whole morning Saturday. Okay I was wrong, it appears to be October 1, which would have been Saturday Because I clearly admitted I was wrong. Edited February 28, 2012 by Soxbadger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Feb 28, 2012 -> 03:50 PM) You mean: Today, 03:32 PM Because I clearly admitted I was wrong. Sorry, I was relying entirely on memory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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