Flash Tizzle Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Dec 17, 2011 -> 12:39 PM) Balls. I'm starting to worry that we're going to get nothing for our pitchers. Even so, I'm still not letting Williams off the hook. I don't care if all teams are offering are AAA players, those players better come here and -- if not immediately -- eventually produce. I want a trade this offseason where rival executives and opposing teams fans express shock at the amount given up for one of our players. None of this "fair for both teams" bulls***. And for those goofs who will say, "he can ask, but it doesn't mean he'll get it," I really don't care. We're not going to rebuild anytime time soon with one-for-one trades of closers for potential #3 starters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanne Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 QUOTE (Flash Tizzle @ Dec 17, 2011 -> 02:56 PM) Even so, I'm still not letting Williams off the hook. I don't care if all teams are offering are AAA players, those players better come here and -- if not immediately -- eventually produce. I want a trade this offseason where rival executives and opposing teams fans express shock at the amount given up for one of our players. None of this "fair for both teams" bulls***. And for those goofs who will say, "he can ask, but it doesn't mean he'll get it," I really don't care. We're not going to rebuild anytime time soon with one-for-one trades of closers for potential #3 starters. Me too...but I have a feeling he's not gonna really do squat. I would have been thrilled with a deal of this nature...but Kenny doesn't want to appear capricious in nature tho I guess. That's a pretty sweet haul for the Padres IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 QUOTE (Flash Tizzle @ Dec 17, 2011 -> 01:56 PM) Even so, I'm still not letting Williams off the hook. I don't care if all teams are offering are AAA players, those players better come here and -- if not immediately -- eventually produce. I want a trade this offseason where rival executives and opposing teams fans express shock at the amount given up for one of our players. None of this "fair for both teams" bulls***. And for those goofs who will say, "he can ask, but it doesn't mean he'll get it," I really don't care. We're not going to rebuild anytime time soon with one-for-one trades of closers for potential #3 starters. Do you throw this temper-tantrum with your mother too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (Wanne @ Dec 17, 2011 -> 02:03 PM) Me too...but I have a feeling he's not gonna really do squat. I would have been thrilled with a deal of this nature...but Kenny doesn't want to appear capricious in nature tho I guess. That's a pretty sweet haul for the Padres IMO. Don't you think EVERY team would be thrilled to get these kind of prospects back? The problem is, most teams do not have an asset such as Latos to trade, or if they do, they are unwilling to trade him. There is no player in the White Sox organization capable of bringing back this package. Edited December 17, 2011 by iamshack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 17, 2011 -> 02:07 PM) Don't you think EVERY team would have thrilled to get these kind of prospects back? The problem is, most teams do not have an asset such as Latos to trade, or if they do, they are unwilling to trade him. There is no player in the White Sox organization capable of bringing back this package. Perhaps if we had invested in the draft or international market this would have been irrelevant. Due to our reluctance to acknowledge that part of the game, and our current position in mediocrity, there's no other choice but to build through trades. It doesn't even matter what we're capable of, it's what has to be done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 17, 2011 -> 02:04 PM) Do you throw this temper-tantrum with your mother too? Of course. Do you still suckle from your mothers nips as you do Williams'? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 QUOTE (Flash Tizzle @ Dec 17, 2011 -> 02:12 PM) Perhaps if we had invested in the draft or international market this would have been irrelevant. Due to our reluctance to acknowledge that part of the game, and our current position in mediocrity, there's no other choice but to build through trades. It doesn't even matter what we're capable of, it's what has to be done. What you wish would happen and what is reality are two completely different things. It does no one any good to continue to whine and cry about what has or has not been done in the past. All that can be done now is to improve on our previous mistakes. However, as much as we'd all like to trade for the next cost-controlled superstar, being completely unrealistic about what our assets are worth only makes our situation worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 QUOTE (Flash Tizzle @ Dec 17, 2011 -> 02:14 PM) Of course. Do you still suckle from your mothers nips as you do Williams'? Oooh, that's a real zinger there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 If the Sox received the same package SD just received in exchange for Danks, how long until they are in contention? Seems to me the only sure thing is Latos. The others MAY be good, they MAY really suck, the MAY be average. Obviously you have to look at how long the players are controlled and you would roll the dice with this package considering Danks only has one year left, but I really don't think SD fleeced the Reds. There is a decent chance its the other way around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 17, 2011 -> 02:31 PM) If the Sox received the same package SD just received in exchange for Danks, how long until they are in contention? Seems to me the only sure thing is Latos. The others MAY be good, they MAY really suck, the MAY be average. Obviously you have to look at how long the players are controlled and you would roll the dice with this package considering Danks only has one year left, but I really don't think SD fleeced the Reds. There is a decent chance its the other way around. Well, the situations are different. Part of the downside of rebuilding is having to take that risk on the unknown versus the known. And then you have what SD and Oakland are doing, which is really frightening, to be honest, in that they are trading away the young cost-controlled studs, which are the very essence of why you acquire prospects in the first place, for more prospects, in the hope that you can either hit on more than one of those prospects (what SD is doing), or you can time a wave of talent to hit the MLB level all at one time (what the A's are doing). What bugs me about the SD trade is that the Reds gave them Volquez as well, who you know they are going to move at the deadline after he builds value in Petco, and quite possibly get ANOTHER prospect that could turn into what they just traded away in Latos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 QUOTE (Flash Tizzle @ Dec 17, 2011 -> 01:56 PM) Even so, I'm still not letting Williams off the hook. I don't care if all teams are offering are AAA players, those players better come here and -- if not immediately -- eventually produce. I want a trade this offseason where rival executives and opposing teams fans express shock at the amount given up for one of our players. None of this "fair for both teams" bulls***. And for those goofs who will say, "he can ask, but it doesn't mean he'll get it," I really don't care. We're not going to rebuild anytime time soon with one-for-one trades of closers for potential #3 starters. I basically agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 17, 2011 -> 02:39 PM) Well, the situations are different. Part of the downside of rebuilding is having to take that risk on the unknown versus the known. And then you have what SD and Oakland are doing, which is really frightening, to be honest, in that they are trading away the young cost-controlled studs, which are the very essence of why you acquire prospects in the first place, for more prospects, in the hope that you can either hit on more than one of those prospects (what SD is doing), or you can time a wave of talent to hit the MLB level all at one time (what the A's are doing). What bugs me about the SD trade is that the Reds gave them Volquez as well, who you know they are going to move at the deadline after he builds value in Petco, and quite possibly get ANOTHER prospect that could turn into what they just traded away in Latos. I guess what I am getting at is prospects are not unlike back up QBs. They seem to be a lot more popular until people actually see them playing when it matters. I'm not exactly thrilled if I'm a Padre fan right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 17, 2011 -> 02:45 PM) I guess what I am getting at is prospects are not unlike back up QBs. They seem to be a lot more popular until people actually see them playing when it matters. I'm not exactly thrilled if I'm a Padre fan right now. I would be, simply because if I am a Padre fan, I believe the only way we can be successful is to get lucky with a core of young, cost-controlled studs all coming together in a relatively short time. They weren't going to win anything before Latos becomes expensive and they are trying to trade him for one of those prospects instead of all of those prospects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 17, 2011 -> 02:48 PM) I would be, simply because if I am a Padre fan, I believe the only way we can be successful is to get lucky with a core of young, cost-controlled studs all coming together in a relatively short time. They weren't going to win anything before Latos becomes expensive and they are trying to trade him for one of those prospects instead of all of those prospects. SD hitters have probably the biggest drop off in home vs road splits. I think established hitters can handle it. Its going to be tough for the young guys trying to break in hitting in that park. It could ruin them. Besides Adrian Gonzalez, has anyone had much luck hitting in that place? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 Wow, the Padres absolutely robbed Cincy in this deal. Grandal and Alonso? Damn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cali Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 I honestly don't think Kenny has the ability to just rob another GM for prospects. It's either gonna be a break even kinda trade or a loss... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 QUOTE (Cali @ Dec 17, 2011 -> 03:15 PM) I honestly don't think Kenny has the ability to just rob another GM for prospects. It's either gonna be a break even kinda trade or a loss... Well, to be fair, KW won his fair share of deals - 5-6 years ago. But yeah, never has he made a deal in which the majority of the baseball world initially was in agreement that he straight fleeced someone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (chw42 @ Dec 17, 2011 -> 03:10 PM) Wow, the Padres absolutely robbed Cincy in this deal. Grandal and Alonso? Damn. I agree that the haul was steep. But you're not getting a guy of Latos' age, talent, and team-friendly contract for a bunch of B prospects. Yonder was not going to sniff 1B, obviously. Grandal was stuck behind a guy that's major league ready. Volquez has pitched a little over 200 innings in the last three years. And Boxberger is a reliever, though a talented one. This is what comes from having a deep system. They had the assets to move without hurting themselves in the short or long-term. Latos/Cueto 1-2 in that rotation is going to be nice. Edited December 17, 2011 by Jordan4life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 So Yonder will be their starting 1B and Rizzo will go to AAA to "work on things" oh and according to Byrnes this is a "bitter pill to swallow" for Rizzo, sounds like he's getting dealt. Can Jed make it 2 for 2 on Rizzo in back to back years? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (Kalapse @ Dec 17, 2011 -> 03:35 PM) So Yonder will be their starting 1B and Rizzo will go to AAA to "work on things" oh and according to Byrnes this is a "bitter pill to swallow" for Rizzo, sounds like he's getting dealt. Can Jed make it 2 for 2 on Rizzo in back to back years? This is hilarious as far as the Sox go. They're trying to deal the few assets they have yet other teams have better assets that are under control. Rizzo appears to be available. Mark Trumbo is not going to DH. I say this because even if the Sox wanted to deal Konerko, you've got some young/talented, potential 1B studs out there that a look a little more appealing than a 35-year old owed over $25 million the next couple years. Edited December 17, 2011 by Jordan4life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3E8 Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 Considering what the Soxtalk community thinks would be an acceptable package for Danks, your reaction to what the Reds had to give up for Latos surprises me. Latos is as good if not better than Danks, three years younger, and under control for four years. Also, he's not a product of Petco. His home/road splits are identical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 I can't believe people still get suckered into trading for pitchers who put up huge numbers in San Diego. Javy Vazquez would have been a Hall of Famer if he pitched there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 QUOTE (3E8 @ Dec 17, 2011 -> 03:49 PM) Considering what the Soxtalk community thinks would be an acceptable package for Danks, your reaction to what the Reds had to give up for Latos surprises me. Latos is as good if not better than Danks, three years younger, and under control for four years. Also, he's not a product of Petco. His home/road splits are identical. Other than it being a 4-1 deal, I don't see how anybody can say the Reds got fleeced. I love this deal for them. Latos, Cueto, Votto, Bruce, Stubbs, Chapman is an amazing young core to go into '12 with. No Pujols, more than likely no Fielder, and the rest of that division being either average (Cubs) or pathetic (Astros), and the Reds should be a major player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 17, 2011 -> 04:01 PM) I can't believe people still get suckered into trading for pitchers who put up huge numbers in San Diego. Javy Vazquez would have been a Hall of Famer if he pitched there. Huh? This shocks me coming from you. Weren't you a huge Latos fan? And his numbers away from Petco are basically the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 17, 2011 -> 10:03 PM) Huh? This shocks me coming from you. Weren't you a huge Latos fan? And his numbers away from Petco are basically the same. Not the biggest fan of his. Someone else on here loves him I know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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