southsider2k5 Posted December 23, 2011 Author Share Posted December 23, 2011 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 23, 2011 -> 02:06 PM) I have read that Detroit does not believe they will have enough to spend to land Cespedes. I'd be perfectly content signing him within a reasonable area, but it would be a lot, lot, lot better to distribute that money throughout the minor league system and draft. The absolute max they can spend next year on the draft is $11 million. We are talking about way more than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gatnom Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 23, 2011 -> 02:06 PM) I have read that Detroit does not believe they will have enough to spend to land Cespedes. I'd be perfectly content signing him within a reasonable area, but it would be a lot, lot, lot better to distribute that money throughout the minor league system and draft. I agree, but Kenny seems to operate by the exact opposite mentality: identify one prospect you like and do what it takes to get him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gatnom Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 23, 2011 -> 02:42 PM) The absolute max they can spend next year on the draft is $11 million. We are talking about way more than that. They could try for other international signings as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 QUOTE (gatnom @ Dec 23, 2011 -> 03:45 PM) They could try for other international signings as well. It hasn't quite kicked in yet, but starting in July of 2012 there will be a substantial luxury tax applied to international signings, which many believe will wind up leading to the incorporation of international signings into the draft pretty quickly. Clause in the new CBA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gatnom Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 23, 2011 -> 02:49 PM) It hasn't quite kicked in yet, but starting in July of 2012 there will be a substantial luxury tax applied to international signings, which many believe will wind up leading to the incorporation of international signings into the draft pretty quickly. Clause in the new CBA. It still doesn't seem prudent to invest tens of millions on a single prospect to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 23, 2011 Author Share Posted December 23, 2011 QUOTE (gatnom @ Dec 23, 2011 -> 02:45 PM) They could try for other international signings as well. The international cap is going to be under $3 million according to BA, with huge penalties for going over. The cap will adjust lower in coming years for the higher winning percentage teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 23, 2011 Author Share Posted December 23, 2011 QUOTE (gatnom @ Dec 23, 2011 -> 02:53 PM) It still doesn't seem prudent to invest tens of millions on a single prospect to me. Cespedes isn't really in the prospect category. He is years ahead of that level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtySox Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 23, 2011 -> 02:42 PM) The absolute max they can spend next year on the draft is $11 million. We are talking about way more than that. And we don't know if the Sox will even spend the maximum allotment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sin city sox fan Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 If we are in rebuilding mode, could our chances be enhanced by offering him a guaranteed start on the major league roster? (similar to what we did to sign Sale). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Soxfan Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 QUOTE (sin city sox fan @ Dec 23, 2011 -> 03:26 PM) If we are in rebuilding mode, could our chances be enhanced by offering him a guaranteed start on the major league roster? (similar to what we did to sign Sale). Good point and that is probably our greatest bargaining chip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (sin city sox fan @ Dec 23, 2011 -> 03:26 PM) If we are in rebuilding mode, could our chances be enhanced by offering him a guaranteed start on the major league roster? (similar to what we did to sign Sale). Not if it means the difference between $25 and $50 million. His agent knows there's always a chance he could flop, and will advise him to get as much guaranteed money as possible. From the player's standpoint, a clear path to the major leagues is important, but anyone spending that type of cash on a prospect is obviously going to make every possible effort to put him in a position to succeed with the big league team in the timeliest realistic fashion. Considering how many prospects we've rushed and the fact that we needed offense big time last year, the non-promotion of Viciedo was one of the most curious decisions by Sox management over the course of last season. Edited December 23, 2011 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justBLAZE Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 Yankees, Red Sox may not bid high on Cespedes While the market for Cuban outfielder Yoenis Cespedes is unpredictable, the word this week is that neither the Yankees nor the Red Sox plan to be heavily involved. The two baseball superpowers have both followed Cespedes carefully, and some in the Yankee front office want him badly. But the decision this week, according to sources, was that Cespedes is too raw a talent to justify the price, and may not be suited to playing in a big market, anyway. While the Yankees are not out on Cespedes, the plan as of now is to treat him the way they treated Japanese pitcher Yu Darvish, making a modest bid that is unlikely to be successful. The Red Sox are said to have similar concerns. People familiar with the international market say that there is also a divide on Cespedes in the Marlins' front office, and that it's not a given that the team will go after him hard. Also, Cespedes has told people that he plans to make his permanent home in the Dominican Republic, rather than in Miami, and may prefer to go to a team other than the Marlins. The interest in Cespedes remains strong, and the market could change by the time he becomes a free agent, which should happen in January. The Cubs, Tigers, Nationals, White Sox and Rays, among other teams, are still expected to pursue him. Because of the strong interest, the belief is that Cespedes will still get as much as $40 million, even if the Yankees and Red Sox hold back from heavy bidding. One possible issue is that Cespedes' agents apparently want him to go straight to the major leagues, while many if not most scouts believe that he should spend time in the minor leagues first. The Cubs, Nationals, Braves and Red Sox, among others, are also said to be interested in Jorge Soler, a 19-year-old Cuban who is also expected to become a free agent this winter. Soler is further from the big leagues, but talented enough that some predict it could take $15 million to sign him. Because of new limits on bonuses that will go into effect next winter, teams may feel free to bid higher on Cespedes and/or Soler this winter. link. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 QUOTE (gatnom @ Dec 23, 2011 -> 02:53 PM) It still doesn't seem prudent to invest tens of millions on a single prospect to me. Agreed. Truthfully, given the Sox lack of SP depth, it would be hard to see them spending the kind of money needed to sign Cespedes when they already have a potential corner OF bat like Viciedo. Unless they'd then move Viciedo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Dec 23, 2011 -> 06:37 PM) Agreed. Truthfully, given the Sox lack of SP depth, it would be hard to see them spending the kind of money needed to sign Cespedes when they already have a potential corner OF bat like Viciedo. Unless they'd then move Viciedo. Marty, there are two corner OF spots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Dec 23, 2011 -> 07:11 PM) Marty, there are two corner OF spots. And we now have 5 starting pitchers under team control for 5 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gatnom Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Dec 23, 2011 -> 06:11 PM) Marty, there are two corner OF spots. There's also the problem of finding playing time for De Aza while paying Rios over $10 million a year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunofgold Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 (edited) Could always trade Quentin & trade Rios at some point (trade bad contracts or send a lot of cash). Make an future OF of De Aza, Cespedes, and Viciedo. With Lillibridge as the fourth OF. Just have to be creative. I would like that. Edited December 24, 2011 by sunofgold Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (sunofgold @ Dec 23, 2011 -> 10:10 PM) Could always trade Quentin & trade Rios at some point (trade bad contracts or send a lot of cash). Make an future OF of De Aza, Cespedes, and Viciedo. With Lillibridge as the fourth OF. Just have to be creative. I would like that. We're going to be stuck with Rios for at least another 3-4 months, if not much longer. We simply don't SEND cash to anyone. One of the few times we have done it recently was the Linebrink deal to ATL, and even with the Teahen/Jackson salary dump....we used Jackson's value to get Mark Teahen off the 2012 roster and payroll. KW also FINALLY dumped McDougal off the roster after giving him about 3 opportunities too many. And the jury's still out on whether DeAza will hold up as an everyday player. Pretty good odds, but it's far from a sure thing. Of course, we thought Adam Dunn and Beckham were pretty sure things at one point. Edited December 24, 2011 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heath821 Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 If we can sign cespedes I would like to see an outfield of viciedo, cespedes and CQ with de aza and rios on the bench. After extending danks and praying for a bounce back year from dunn and beckam I think the sox could have a shot with that lineup in a mediocre AL central Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 QUOTE (heath821 @ Dec 23, 2011 -> 07:55 PM) If we can sign cespedes I would like to see an outfield of viciedo, cespedes and CQ with de aza and rios on the bench. After extending danks and praying for a bounce back year from dunn and beckam I think the sox could have a shot with that lineup in a mediocre AL central Detroit might not be so mediocre - I'd even expect them to be BETTER than last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 QUOTE (hi8is @ Dec 23, 2011 -> 10:57 PM) Detroit might not be so mediocre - I'd even expect them to be BETTER than last year. It's reall hard for me to see Verlander repeating that run. Yes es always been good, but his heart grew three sizes last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunofgold Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 23, 2011 -> 09:59 PM) It's reall hard for me to see Verlander repeating that run. Yes es always been good, but his heart grew three sizes last year. That is true and he pitched a ton of innings with postseason thrown in (less time also to recover for 2012). Their closer had a career year (no blown saves). Peralta had a career year. Al Al is out at least half the season. Wasn't Victor Martinez pretty much banged up at the end of the playoffs? I think a couple guys got banged up in that series with the Rangers. Anything is possible because they could just feast again on their division foes. But it is going to be hard for them to be as good as last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (sunofgold @ Dec 23, 2011 -> 08:04 PM) Anything is possible because they could just feast again on their division foes. But it is going to be hard for them to be as good as last year. I'm thinking a full year of Fister will do wonders for them. Edit: Sorry, I'm getting off topic. Cespedes makes me happy, get him please. Black and white uniform = GOOD Any other uniform = BAD That's all you need to know Cespedes. Edited December 24, 2011 by hi8is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 QUOTE (hi8is @ Dec 23, 2011 -> 11:07 PM) I'm thinking a full year of Fister will do wonders for them. That's still a big stadium to pitch in, but I don't think he'll repeat his success from last season so easily. We'll just have to wait and see. Porcello and Scherzer remain the keys to that rotation, along with Jacob Turner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 23, 2011 -> 08:09 PM) Porcello and Scherzer remain the keys to that rotation, along with Jacob Turner. Yup, I expect them to step it up as well. It IS baseball thou - anything can happen. Dunn could hit 40 bomb - or 12... either wouldn't surprise me. Rios could be totally worthless or put up a 4 WAR - either wouldn't surprise me. Humber could throw to a ~1 WHIP or could put up a 1.5 - either wouldn't surprise me. It's gonna be an interesting 2012 - but I'm not expecting us to beat Detroit this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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