2012 Cuban signees thread Cespedes/Soler/Concepcion

[Lillian]

Well, let me ask the question in another way and get straight to the point. If he gets that kind of contract to sign and ends up being a pretty productive player, how much is it likely to cost altogether for his services until he reaches free agency?

[Kalapse]

Well, let me ask the question in another way and get straight to the point. If he gets that kind of contract to sign and ends up being a pretty productive player, how much is it likely to cost altogether for his services until he reaches free agency?

There's really no way of answering that question right now.

[Lillian]

The only thing I don't like about aggresively pursuing Cespedes is that he is another right handed hitter. If Dunn flops again, this team still lacks a left handed presence in the lineup. I don't know how mangagement has overlooked this glaring shortcoming.

We don't have a potent left handed bat anywhere in the organization. Oh well, at this point we may not have a potent right handed bat, save Konerko.

 

He is a 5 tool player, but is he really good enough defensively to play CF?

Can he steal bases?

If he can do those two things, he might be worth the money, even if he doesn't fulfill the promise of a huge bat in the middle of the order.

It's hard to imagine him not being at least a productive offensive player, with the way he has been dominating Cuban Leagues. I mean the guy averaged over an RBI per game last year!!!

Edited January 1, 2012 by Lillian

[Quin]

The only thing I don't like about aggresively pursuing Cespedes is that he is another right handed hitter. If Dunn flops again, this team still lacks a left handed presence in the lineup. I don't know how mangagement has overlooked this glaring shortcoming.

We don't have a potent left handed bat anywhere in the organization. Oh well, at this point we may not have a potent right handed bat, save Konerko.

 

He is a 5 tool player, but is he really good enough defensively to play CF?

Can he steal bases?

If he can do those two things, he might be worth the money,

 

I don't care what hand the bat is if he can hit.

[ScottyDo]

The only thing I don't like about aggresively pursuing Cespedes is that he is another right handed hitter. If Dunn flops again, this team still lacks a left handed presence in the lineup. I don't know how mangagement has overlooked this glaring shortcoming.

We don't have a potent left handed bat anywhere in the organization. Oh well, at this point we may not have a potent right handed bat, save Konerko.

 

He is a 5 tool player, but is he really good enough defensively to play CF?

Can he steal bases?

If he can do those two things, he might be worth the money, even if he doesn't fulfill the promise of a huge bat in the middle of the order.

It's hard to imagine him not being at least a productive offensive player, with the way he has been dominating Cuban Leagues. I mean the guy averaged over an RBI per game last year!!!

Looks like he can steal bases (though none of us watch the Cuban league very often, I don't think), and he has a great arm, though without seeing him play live CF it's tough to tell. I guess someone would have to go back to the WBC games to check it out?

 

But you don't pass up on a great right-handed talent because they're not left-handed unless you're so overloaded with talent that you can't find a spot for him in the lineup. Clearly, that is not the White Sox' problem right now. Passing on Cespedes doesn't get us another lefty bat any way you look at it, it just ensures less overall talent.

[Wanne]

If Floyd and Thornton are gone before Cespedes signs, I'd say the chances we sign him go up insanely in light of Frasor.

 

Makes much more sense...and probably easier to trade Thornton. Plus...I wouldn't trust the return for Floyd the KW would swing.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

With all this money saved, I would actually like to see Floyd given an extension.

[pktmotion]

With all this money saved, I would actually like to see Floyd given an extension.

 

As much as I like Floyd, I think he's reached his ceiling with the Sox.

If there's a team out there willing to overpay for him, I think you make that deal.

 

 

[caulfield12]

The only thing I don't like about aggresively pursuing Cespedes is that he is another right handed hitter. If Dunn flops again, this team still lacks a left handed presence in the lineup. I don't know how mangagement has overlooked this glaring shortcoming.

We don't have a potent left handed bat anywhere in the organization. Oh well, at this point we may not have a potent right handed bat, save Konerko.

 

He is a 5 tool player, but is he really good enough defensively to play CF?

Can he steal bases?

If he can do those two things, he might be worth the money, even if he doesn't fulfill the promise of a huge bat in the middle of the order.

It's hard to imagine him not being at least a productive offensive player, with the way he has been dominating Cuban Leagues. I mean the guy averaged over an RBI per game last year!!!

 

Borchard fail

Thome canned too early by Ozzie

Swisher fail

[greg775]

Anybody want to answer these questions about Cespedes for me?

 

a.) what position does he play? b.) rate his defense. c.) describe his hitting prowess and who he reminds you of at the plate. d.) Is he a can't miss prospect? e.) Do you think Sox will get him?

 

I have a good feeling we're going to get this guy. I just can't see KW and Jerry not adding somebody to the roster who will draw some positive buzz. Or have they forgotten there are 2 teams in town and they have to remain better than those assholes on the northside?

Now that Christmas is over Sox management should have a pretty good idea about how much attendance is set to fall. Season ticket Christmas gifts have been unwrapped.

[caulfield12]

Anybody want to answer these questions about Cespedes for me?

 

a.) what position does he play? b.) rate his defense. c.) describe his hitting prowess and who he reminds you of at the plate. d.) Is he a can't miss prospect? e.) Do you think Sox will get him?

 

I have a good feeling we're going to get this guy. I just can't see KW and Jerry not adding somebody to the roster who will draw some positive buzz. Or have they forgotten there are 2 teams in town and they have to remain better than those assholes on the northside?

Now that Christmas is over Sox management should have a pretty good idea about how much attendance is set to fall. Season ticket Christmas gifts have been unwrapped.

 

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article....articleid=15469

 

RF probably with Viciedo in LF...he's more athletic by far (50 inch vertical) but still not a true CFer.

 

Best hitting prospect in Cuba of his generation...perhaps the best since Omar Linares.

 

Definitely more "can't miss" than Viciedo and Alexei Ramirez were described when they came out, although the frenzy over Cespedes is closer to what happened with Viciedo (an open bidding war) than with the unheralded/underappreciated Ramirez.

 

Sox getting him?

 

Makes a ton of sense...especially if we eventually trade Konerko and stick Dayan at 1B.

 

For 2012, he would cut into the playing time of DeAza, Viciedo and/or Dunn.

 

But he is projected to start in High A ball or AA (or advanced to AA after 6-8 weeks getting his feet wet and growing confidence) and make an impact in the majors in August/September at the earliest.

 

We were pretty aggressive thinking Viciedo might be ready (because of the price tag) coming into 2009 or 2010 and clearly that wasn't the case.

 

But we're talking about the best player in Cuba, along with Gourriel at SS.

 

 

[knightni]

Anybody want to answer these questions about Cespedes for me?

 

a.) what position does he play? Centerfield/Rightfield

b.) rate his defense. Pretty good - he's very quick

c.) describe his hitting prowess and who he reminds you of at the plate. - He's a 30 HR guy in Cuba, I'd say that he's 20/20 in the majors if he figures out pitchers. Not sure who he reminds me of, though. A speedier Alexei maybe?

d.) Is he a can't miss prospect? He's 26 (in Cuba age) - he's more like a solid AAA guy who may start in the majors if he gets success against MLB pitchers or De Aza regresses.

e.) Do you think Sox will get him? Possibly. Who knows?

[ScottyDo]

Anybody want to answer these questions about Cespedes for me?

 

a.) what position does he play? b.) rate his defense. c.) describe his hitting prowess and who he reminds you of at the plate. d.) Is he a can't miss prospect? e.) Do you think Sox will get him?

 

I have a good feeling we're going to get this guy. I just can't see KW and Jerry not adding somebody to the roster who will draw some positive buzz. Or have they forgotten there are 2 teams in town and they have to remain better than those assholes on the northside?

Now that Christmas is over Sox management should have a pretty good idea about how much attendance is set to fall. Season ticket Christmas gifts have been unwrapped.

a) He started in CF for Cuba in the WBC in 2009

b) I have no idea, I'm not sure how we'd get a good sample size, but he does appear to have a plus arm, good range and athleticism based on video footage. Of course, none of that matters if you get bad jumps or take bad angles, so I can't say.

c) Looks like he has power to all fields from the right side, but no clue about his eye. He had some decent clutch hits for Cuba in the WBC. I don't know who his comp would be. I've never seen a guy with his build before. He literally looks like a running back with the athleticism of an NBA player but he's playing the wrong sport. I guess he mostly reminds me of Soriano in his prime? That's a terrible comp, ignore that. No idea about his eye, by the way.

d) To me, he looks about as can't-miss as a player can be, in that he has obvious upside in every regard. Of course, there's no such thing as a "can't miss" prospect, especially a hitter. Hitters of all scouting grades fail to make the adjustment to major league pitching.

e) If it's the Sox vs. the field, I'd say no. But, I think the Sox have the best chance of everyone based on cleared salary and the established Cuban presence on the team. That may change without Ozzie. (There's some fuel for you, Greg!)

[Lillian]

Anybody want to answer these questions about Cespedes for me?

 

a.) what position does he play? b.) rate his defense. c.) describe his hitting prowess and who he reminds you of at the plate. d.) Is he a can't miss prospect? e.) Do you think Sox will get him?

 

I have a good feeling we're going to get this guy. I just can't see KW and Jerry not adding somebody to the roster who will draw some positive buzz. Or have they forgotten there are 2 teams in town and they have to remain better than those assholes on the northside?

Now that Christmas is over Sox management should have a pretty good idea about how much attendance is set to fall. Season ticket Christmas gifts have been unwrapped.

 

These are some of the questions which I'd like to have answered as well.

You can't really call him a prospect, however. He is an established, dominant force in Cuban baseball. The only question is how well he will adopt to the Majors. Neither Alexi, Viciedo nor Morales ever produced quite as much as Cespedes has in Cuba. I don't see any reason why he shouldn't be a very good player in the Big Leagues.

 

The best part is that he is a 5 tool player. That means there are more ways for him to contribute, and they are ways which "translate" well in any league. He may struggle a bit for a while with Big League pitching, but speed and defense play well at any level.

 

He is the kind of player that could put fannies in the stadium seats.

[caulfield12]

a) He started in CF for Cuba in the WBC in 2009

b) I have no idea, I'm not sure how we'd get a good sample size, but he does appear to have a plus arm, good range and athleticism based on video footage. Of course, none of that matters if you get bad jumps or take bad angles, so I can't say.

c) Looks like he has power to all fields from the right side, but no clue about his eye. He had some decent clutch hits for Cuba in the WBC. I don't know who his comp would be. I've never seen a guy with his build before. He literally looks like a running back with the athleticism of an NBA player but he's playing the wrong sport. I guess he mostly reminds me of Soriano in his prime? That's a terrible comp, ignore that. No idea about his eye, by the way.

d) To me, he looks about as can't-miss as a player can be, in that he has obvious upside in every regard. Of course, there's no such thing as a "can't miss" prospect, especially a hitter. Hitters of all scouting grades fail to make the adjustment to major league pitching.

e) If it's the Sox vs. the field, I'd say no. But, I think the Sox have the best chance of everyone based on cleared salary and the established Cuban presence on the team. That may change without Ozzie. (There's some fuel for you, Greg!)

 

Or why we've added four Venezuelan players to our organization when basically the last 2-3 seasons it was only Infante, Clevland Santeliz, Omar Vizquel and Freddy Garcia.

[ScottyDo]

Or why we've added four Venezuelan players to our organization when basically the last 2-3 seasons it was only Infante, Clevland Santeliz, Omar Vizquel and Freddy Garcia.

I'm not quite sure what you're getting at here...but I think it's fairly reasonable to say that Cuban players who have never set foot in the United States might feel most comfortable with a manager fluent in Spanish, and an iconic Latino as well.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

As much as I like Floyd, I think he's reached his ceiling with the Sox.

If there's a team out there willing to overpay for him, I think you make that deal.

 

That's the thing though, I don't want Kenny actively shopping Floyd in an effort to dump more salary. If a team comes calling and is overpaying to get him, then do it, but Floyd is not someone we NEED to trade, like Quentin was.

[caulfield12]

I'm not quite sure what you're getting at here...but I think it's fairly reasonable to say that Cuban players who have never set foot in the United States might feel most comfortable with a manager fluent in Spanish, and an iconic Latino as well.

 

Just that Ozzie seems to play favorites and never got along very well with the likes of Ordonez, Orlando Cabrera (from neighboring/rival country), Carlos Lee, Alex Rodriguez (yeah, I know he's Dominican-NYC)...but all the time Ozzie was manager, we were never really able to lure a player to the Sox because of that one factor, specifically, a Venezuelan.

 

Except for F. Garcia and I guess Omar Vizquel ten years too late.

 

The Sox Venezuelan baseball academy hasn't produced much, if anything, at all.

 

I would have expected more in 8 years..although I guess we did "almost" get Cabrera...we didn't go hard after Victor Martinez, either. Wonder if Ozzie told KW he didn't want him? Supposedly we offered him a decent contract, or maybe it was just a smokescreen from the agent because that deal came together in just a couple of days, seemingly out of nowhere. No way of knowing what really happened behind the scenes.

 

On the other hand, El Duque, Contreras and Alexei have all had success under Ozzie...but Guillen never really warmed to Viciedo either.

Edited January 2, 2012 by caulfield12

[ScottyDo]

Just that Ozzie seems to play favorites and never got along very well with the likes of Ordonez, Orlando Cabrera (from neighboring/rival country), Carlos Lee, Alex Rodriguez (yeah, I know he's Dominican-NYC)...but all the time Ozzie was manager, we were never really able to lure a player to the Sox because of that one factor, specifically, a Venezuelan.

 

Except for F. Garcia and I guess Omar Vizquel ten years too late.

 

The Sox Venezuelan baseball academy hasn't produced much, if anything, at all.

 

I would have expected more in 8 years..although I guess we did "almost" get Cabrera...we didn't go hard after Victor Martinez, either. Wonder if Ozzie told KW he didn't want him? Supposedly we offered him a decent contract, or maybe it was just a smokescreen from the agent because that deal came together in just a couple of days, seemingly out of nowhere. No way of knowing what really happened behind the scenes.

 

On the other hand, El Duque, Contreras and Alexei have all had success under Ozzie...but Guillen never really warmed to Viciedo either.

I don't think it's as important for Venezuelan players as it would be for Cuban players, since most Venezuelan players have had a few years to acclimate to the United States by playing in the minors. These Cubans are expected to be in the majors within a year or two, so a smooth transition may seem like a greater benefit in their decision-making.

[pktmotion]

That's the thing though, I don't want Kenny actively shopping Floyd in an effort to dump more salary. If a team comes calling and is overpaying to get him, then do it, but Floyd is not someone we NEED to trade, like Quentin was.

 

 

Agreed.

 

My dream trade is Floyd+Thornton+$ for Joakim Soria+Alex Gordon.

 

 

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

Agreed.

 

My dream trade is Floyd+Thornton+$ for Joakim Soria+Alex Gordon.

 

Ehhhh. Soria gets rather expensive by 2013, and we already have an internal option for closer in Addison Reed. I'd prefer we just continue to stockpile young talent we can control for 6+ years.

[greg775]

Thanks much. I am now officially fairly excited about Cespedes. I hope we bring him aboard. Thanks for the answers.

 

As far as Soria/Gordon.

Soria finally came down to earth last year and I am almost positive he was on the DL a while.

Is it the dreaded wearing down of all closers not named Mariano?

Gordon finally had a very very good year.

I guess I'd like him on my team as well.

Not as totally high on those 2 though as you are.

[pktmotion]

I like Gordon's bat and has + speed with 17 SB last year, he would round out the top of the order well.

I view De Aza as a 4th OF and don't think we'll sign Cespedes.

 

Ramirez - Rios - Gordon - Konerko - Dunn - Viciedo - Beckham - Pierzynski - Morel

 

Soria would be included to offset cash coming in from Floyd/Thornton. His salary could be absorbed this year and cut ties by buying out the club option(if he sucks) or (if he bounces back) he easily becomes a great trade candidate in 2013. Huston Street and Brandon League(I expect to be signed long-term before then) would be the best FA options.

 

I'm cool with prospects, but at some point we have to realize we're the Chicago White Sox and not the Oakland A's.

Edited January 2, 2012 by pktmotion

[beautox]

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article....articleid=15469

 

RF probably with Viciedo in LF...he's more athletic by far (50 inch vertical) but still not a true CFer.

 

Best hitting prospect in Cuba of his generation...perhaps the best since Omar Linares.

 

Definitely more "can't miss" than Viciedo and Alexei Ramirez were described when they came out, although the frenzy over Cespedes is closer to what happened with Viciedo (an open bidding war) than with the unheralded/underappreciated Ramirez.

 

Sox getting him?

 

Makes a ton of sense...especially if we eventually trade Konerko and stick Dayan at 1B.

 

For 2012, he would cut into the playing time of DeAza, Viciedo and/or Dunn.

 

But he is projected to start in High A ball or AA (or advanced to AA after 6-8 weeks getting his feet wet and growing confidence) and make an impact in the majors in August/September at the earliest.

 

We were pretty aggressive thinking Viciedo might be ready (because of the price tag) coming into 2009 or 2010 and clearly that wasn't the case.

 

But we're talking about the best player in Cuba, along with Gourriel at SS.

 

Honestly I would love to see the sox move pk and aj to south beach opening up first to acquire morales and a spec for the likes of thornton. Lets make the continue to make the south side of chicago a prime destination for cuban defectors.

 

[Kalapse]

Honestly I would love to see the sox move pk and aj to south beach opening up first to acquire morales and a spec for the likes of thornton. Lets make the continue to make the south side of chicago a prime destination for cuban defectors.

Your avatar is one of the greatest things I have ever seen. Wow, is that awesome. Is that a Conan bit?