flavum Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 3, 2012 -> 10:24 AM) DeAza is a great guy to have as a 4th OF. He might be better than that, and if there was ever a year to give De Aza a full oportunity to be an every day player, this is the year. A reminder of what his full year was like between Charlotte and Chicago: 153 games, 174-537 (.324), 93 runs, 61 xbh, 60 rbis, 34 sb And he hit .329 in 54 games with the Sox, with a .400 obp. He deserves a chance to play every day. Edited January 3, 2012 by flavum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 On a great team, DeAza is the perfect fourth, a more dynamic version of Ryan Sweeney. With the White Sox, because of our barren farm system, he gets starting time. Otherwise, it's Lillibridge...assuming Rios and Viciedo produce this year (big assumption, in the case of Alex Rios). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 3, 2012 Author Share Posted January 3, 2012 QUOTE (flavum @ Jan 3, 2012 -> 11:12 AM) He might be better than that, and if there was ever a year to give De Aza a full oportunity to be an every day player, this is the year. A reminder of what his full year was like between Charlotte and Chicago: 153 games, 174-537 (.324), 93 runs, 61 xbh, 60 rbis, 34 sb And he hit .329 in 54 games with the Sox, with a .400 obp. He deserves a chance to play every day. He could very well be better than that. But if we sign Cespedes and get a good Rios year, having De Aza as a 4th OF is ideal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 3, 2012 -> 12:18 PM) On a great team, DeAza is the perfect fourth, a more dynamic version of Ryan Sweeney. With the White Sox, because of our barren farm system, he gets starting time. Otherwise, it's Lillibridge...assuming Rios and Viciedo produce this year (big assumption, in the case of Alex Rios). If De Aza could put up a .775 OPS, 20+ stolen bases, and an OBP close to .350, he'd be a starter for most teams in baseball. He'd have been a starter for the Marlins had he not destroyed his leg, and people rarely seem to question the Marlins scouting and development people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 3, 2012 -> 10:40 AM) The rebuilding quote was taken massively out of context. Just about everyone ignored the next line in that conversation. Which was? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 3, 2012 -> 11:35 AM) He could very well be better than that. But if we sign Cespedes and get a good Rios year, having De Aza as a 4th OF is ideal. If they sign Cespedes and plan on having him start, then De Aza at least deserves to split time with Rios in CF and rotate into LF and RF once or twice a week. The guy flat-out earned that right last season. They can make him the 4th OF, but it should really be more along the lines of a regular/rotating outfielder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Jan 3, 2012 -> 01:11 PM) If they sign Cespedes and plan on having him start, then De Aza at least deserves to split time with Rios in CF and rotate into LF and RF once or twice a week. The guy flat-out earned that right last season. They can make him the 4th OF, but it should really be more along the lines of a regular/rotating outfielder. If they sign Cespedes...I kinda hope he starts at Charlotte...both because I want to see De Aza play, and because I hate seeing them do things like they did with Alexei...where he basically sat on the bench in April 08 because he was struggling and they had other guys who weren't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtySox Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 3, 2012 -> 12:16 PM) If they sign Cespedes...I kinda hope he starts at Charlotte...both because I want to see De Aza play, and because I hate seeing them do things like they did with Alexei...where he basically sat on the bench in April 08 because he was struggling and they had other guys who weren't. I hope he would start in the minors as well. Most scouts are of the opinion he needs some minor league time, which concurrently would allow him to acclimate to the new culture. Edited January 3, 2012 by DirtySox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 3, 2012 Author Share Posted January 3, 2012 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Jan 3, 2012 -> 12:09 PM) Which was? http://www.csnchicago.com/blog/sox-drawer/...mp;feedID=10338 But what seems to have been lost, forgotten or ignored from that Williams press conference were the words he said immediately after using the dredded r-word. “It’s the start of a rebuilding now,” the White Sox general manager said on Dec. 6. “Is it the start of a falling domino-type rebuilding? No. Absolutely not.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maggsmaggs Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Jan 3, 2012 -> 12:11 PM) If they sign Cespedes and plan on having him start, then De Aza at least deserves to split time with Rios in CF and rotate into LF and RF once or twice a week. The guy flat-out earned that right last season. They can make him the 4th OF, but it should really be more along the lines of a regular/rotating outfielder. This. At this point Rios is a sunk cost, so why not just put the player who gives us the best chance to win out in CF? After last year's end to the season, that guy is De Aza. He has earned that right and it should only be taken away from him by Rios earning it back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 3, 2012 -> 12:16 PM) If they sign Cespedes...I kinda hope he starts at Charlotte...both because I want to see De Aza play, and because I hate seeing them do things like they did with Alexei...where he basically sat on the bench in April 08 because he was struggling and they had other guys who weren't. I don't disagree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Everything I've heard says that Cespedes is going to need some time in AA/AAA, even if it's only half a season. The situation works out perfectly then, because we'll have time to see what De Aza and Rios are going to do for a few months, then decide who sits when/if Cespedes is ready. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jan 3, 2012 -> 12:47 PM) Everything I've heard says that Cespedes is going to need some time in AA/AAA, even if it's only half a season. The situation works out perfectly then, because we'll have time to see what De Aza and Rios are going to do for a few months, then decide who sits when/if Cespedes is ready. Between this and your breakdown of the potential lineup, I'm agreeing with you on a few bright spots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatScott82 Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jan 3, 2012 -> 12:47 PM) Everything I've heard says that Cespedes is going to need some time in AA/AAA, even if it's only half a season. The situation works out perfectly then, because we'll have time to see what De Aza and Rios are going to do for a few months, then decide who sits when/if Cespedes is ready. Now would be the perfect time to sign a guy like Cespedes who has a tremendous upside! Get it down KW! We need this type of excitement! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Fireworks Man Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Jan 3, 2012 -> 01:30 PM) This. At this point Rios is a sunk cost, so why not just put the player who gives us the best chance to win out in CF? After last year's end to the season, that guy is De Aza. He has earned that right and it should only be taken away from him by Rios earning it back. I agree. Same goes for Dunn. So why not platoon Rios and Dunn until either or both earn more playing time with their performance? Against RHP, Viciedo starts in RF and Dunn at DH. Against LHP, Rios starts in RF and Viciedo moves to DH. You do this to start the season and keep it that way until either Dunn or Rios (or both) show that they have indeed bounced back or until De Aza or Viciedo or Cespedes/Lillibridge/etc. show they are not deserving of starting. Edited January 3, 2012 by South Side Fireworks Man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lillian Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 QUOTE (South Side Fireworks Man @ Jan 3, 2012 -> 12:57 PM) I agree. Same goes for Dunn. So why not platoon Rios and Dunn until either or both earn more playing time with their performance? Against RHP, Viciedo starts in RF and Dunn at DH. Against LHP, Rios starts in RF and Viciedo moves to DH. You do this to start the season and keep it that way until either Dunn or Rios (or both) show that they have indeed bounced back or until De Aza or Viciedo or Cespedes/Lillibridge/etc. show they are not deserving of starting. My sentiments exactly. I've been complaining about the lack of accountability for a long time. What difference does it make how much you're paying a player, if he can't and won't perform as well as another? Play the guy who has earned the playing time, not the guy who is getting the most money. The way it seems now, you play whomever is making the big money. That not only hurts the team, but it acts as a disinsentive to the young players. Another way to look at it is; if you were going to have both Rios and de Aza on your roster, the money is the same whichever player you play. You might as well play the guy who is producing. That might light a fire under the underachieving player, and give all the young players in your organization more motivation to perform well, with expectations of being promoted. How can you tell a player who busted his behind, as de Aza did, that he has to sit so that an underachieving, overpaid guy like Rios can be on the field. That can't be good for any organization. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 A little too soon to start using the term "sunk cost" for Rios and Dunn. Rios -- 3 years, 38 mil Dunn -- 3 years, 44 mil They have to play them from the start of the season like the highly-paid veterans that they are. If they get to 2014 still underperforming, then maybe you just eat the last year. That's the time to call it sunk cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Cue Greg/Ozzie Guillen/Chris Rongey post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 3, 2012 Author Share Posted January 3, 2012 QUOTE (flavum @ Jan 3, 2012 -> 01:25 PM) A little too soon to start using the term "sunk cost" for Rios and Dunn. Rios -- 3 years, 38 mil Dunn -- 3 years, 44 mil They have to play them from the start of the season like the highly-paid veterans that they are. If they get to 2014 still underperforming, then maybe you just eat the last year. That's the time to call it sunk cost. Not to mention no one else in the history of baseball has ate that much in contracts. Give it up people. Dunn and Rios are here to stay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 3, 2012 -> 01:46 PM) Not to mention no one else in the history of baseball has ate that much in contracts. Give it up people. Dunn and Rios are here to stay. Nobody is saying to trade or release them (minus elrock). Just saying that we should play them less until they earn the spot back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tannerfan Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Jan 3, 2012 -> 02:08 PM) Nobody is saying to trade or release them (minus elrock). Just saying that we should play them less until they earn the spot back. Agreed. I think the best thing Ventura can do is open camp with a speech explaining that all starting positions are open. Everyone has to earn the right to play. Obviously this is not true in the case of 1b and ss, but there is no reason to award any other starting position if the player does not compete in spring training and earn his job. The whole "let's go to camp and get our work in" under Ozzie led to a lazy team and bad starts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOXOBAMA Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Spring Training will be a lot of fun to watch this season, cause of all the new players/coaches.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Fireworks Man Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Jan 3, 2012 -> 03:08 PM) Nobody is saying to trade or release them (minus elrock). Just saying that we should play them less until they earn the spot back. Yes. Of course we have to play them - but they must earn their regular starting positions back. If they have outstanding spring training results I guess you can start them in the opener and take it from there. But right now my suggestion is that they play part time until they earn their starting jobs back. A platoon of Rios and Dunn as I described a few posts above would be a good way to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 3, 2012 Author Share Posted January 3, 2012 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Jan 3, 2012 -> 02:08 PM) Nobody is saying to trade or release them (minus elrock). Just saying that we should play them less until they earn the spot back. The best chance at them getting back to any kind of a value is by playing them. If we are already accepting that we have no chance in 2012, we should be playing Dunn, Peavy, and Rios every day in the hopes that they become tradeable pieces again. If you move even one of those guys, or they recover back to their career norms, that is way better than them rotting payroll on the bench. The benching them for three years idea is just as bad as releasing them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 3, 2012 -> 02:35 PM) The best chance at them getting back to any kind of a value is by playing them. If we are already accepting that we have no chance in 2012, we should be playing Dunn, Peavy, and Rios every day in the hopes that they become tradeable pieces again. If you move even one of those guys, or they recover back to their career norms, that is way better than them rotting payroll on the bench. The benching them for three years idea is just as bad as releasing them. You've taken quite the extreme. I'm not going to attempt to argue against it, as that is not what I said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.