macsandz Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (PolishPrince34 @ Jan 7, 2012 -> 03:46 PM) I completely agree with you that Sox should be going after Soler. Soler is 2-3 years away from making an impact and probably has a higher ceiling than Cesepedes. Also, Soler will fall into $12-15 million dollar range and won't count on the international cap for next year. Soler (soul-air NOT solar) is a potential 5-tool talent and is four years younger and more talented than Leonys Martin, another Cuban outfielder who signed a $15.6 million major league contract with the Rangers in April. Once Soler is cleared to sign with a major league team, he’s expected to top Martin’s deal. The new CBA provides for a $2.9 million international cap for each team for the 2012-13 signing period, which doesn’t start until July 2. As long as Soler signs before then, he won’t be subject to the cap. And even if he were, he’s talented enough and the penalties for busting the cap are so light (a 100-percent tax on the overage and a prohibition on signing any international player for more than $250,000 in the next signing period) that I bet several clubs would be willing to exceed the $2.9 million. Kenny loves Cespedes, but it may make more sense to move on Soler, call him our top prospect and let him develop for a couple years ala Viciedo.. Edited January 7, 2012 by bucket-of-suck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtySox Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 QUOTE (bucket-of-suck @ Jan 7, 2012 -> 03:17 PM) Kenny loves Cespedes, but it may make more sense to move on Soler, call him our top prospect and let him develop for a couple years ala Viciedo.. Yes please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
103 mph screwball Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 BOTH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 If I'm not mistaking, Adam Katz is a Chairman Reinsdorf-friendly agent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Fireworks Man Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 QUOTE (103 mph screwball @ Jan 7, 2012 -> 04:28 PM) BOTH. This. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 QUOTE (103 mph screwball @ Jan 7, 2012 -> 03:28 PM) BOTH. Reopen the Cuban Connection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lillian Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Has no one yet commented on the likelihood of K. W. and Ozzie engaging in "one-upmanship" here on the Cespedes sweepstakes? With the bad blood between those two, I can only imagine what is going on behind the scenes, if both Miami and the Sox are after "El Talento" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 QUOTE (Lillian @ Jan 7, 2012 -> 08:28 PM) Has no one yet commented on the likelihood of K. W. and Ozzie engaging in "one-upmanship" here on the Cespedes sweepstakes? With the bad blood between those two, I can only imagine what is going on behind the scenes, if both Miami and the Sox are after "El Talento" If KW signs Cespedes, he can send Ozzie a picture of the two of them smiling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jan 7, 2012 -> 03:51 PM) If I'm not mistaking, Adam Katz is a Chairman Reinsdorf-friendly agent. Mistaken, Cowboy Joe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 (edited) One of each, please. Soler and Cespedes. Clear Floyd, Crain, Thornton and/or Ohman, AJ and Paulie from the payroll, not to mention Peavy, and it's a DUNN deal. My question would be if Katz has to accept the highest bid (as per whatever agreement has been struck with MLB and the bidding/re-bidding process) or if he can still direct his client in any direction as long as the numbers are the neighborhood he's shooting for. Is it like the Darvish posting situation? It seems different, since the teams can "re-bid" or bid the price up or counteroffer. If the Sox did sign Soler, I would imagine that would tip the iceberg in the direction of the Sox (with Cespedes), as long as they seemed committed to keeping "elder statesman" Alexei Ramirez around for the "retooling" years. The Florida market does make more sense, you have Guillen there, Cora....I wonder, if Contreras and El Duque were questioned...would they advise these two guys to go to Miami with Ozzie or would their loyalty be more to the Sox/Cooper. Wish there was some way to ask El Gran Titan this question, where he would advise these kids to go. Both options make equal sense. In Chicago, seemingly, there would be less pressure as the team's not expected to compete with a greenhorn manager and also more focus is now on Mr. Epstein on the Northside. Edited January 8, 2012 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 •A source says Cespedes' eventual contract will be in the range of four years and $32MM, writes MLB.com's Joe Frisaro. "Several teams have backed away" from Cespedes' original goal of an eight-year, $60MM contract. Frisaro says the Marlins are among the teams still very interested in the Cuban prospect. •Also from Frisaro, Cespedes is tentatively expected to establish residency in the Dominican Republic on January 15, and then the outfielder will petition Major League Baseball for free agent status. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 10, 2012 Author Share Posted January 10, 2012 The lower the number goes, the better the chance the Sox have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 10, 2012 -> 06:07 PM) •A source says Cespedes' eventual contract will be in the range of four years and $32MM, writes MLB.com's Joe Frisaro. "Several teams have backed away" from Cespedes' original goal of an eight-year, $60MM contract. Frisaro says the Marlins are among the teams still very interested in the Cuban prospect. •Also from Frisaro, Cespedes is tentatively expected to establish residency in the Dominican Republic on January 15, and then the outfielder will petition Major League Baseball for free agent status. 4 yrs/$32M comes out to $8/year. My random prediction was 6 yrs/$48M. Looks like I might get at least part of that right! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paint it Black Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 This isn't happening. The White Sox still have a horrible reputation in the DR and Cuba for the bonus skimming scandal. Also, someone explain to me why an organization that spends no money in the draft would pay top dollar for either of these players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 QUOTE (Paint it Black @ Jan 10, 2012 -> 09:03 PM) This isn't happening. The White Sox still have a horrible reputation in the DR and Cuba for the bonus skimming scandal. Also, someone explain to me why an organization that spends no money in the draft would pay top dollar for either of these players. I don't really see how our bonus skimming scandal would affect us in Cuba. I think the fact that we signed Viciedo months after firing Wilder is proof of that. Not sure why you think it would. As for signing Cespedes, we're talking a near major leage ready 5 tool talent. Guys like that aren't available in the draft, so I don't see how bringing up our lack of spending there really makes sense. You don't think KW would be willing to take a chance on a potential superstar? He's gambled on much less in the past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jan 10, 2012 -> 10:29 PM) I don't really see how our bonus skimming scandal would affect us in Cuba. I think the fact that we signed Viciedo months after firing Wilder is proof of that. Not sure why you think it would. As for signing Cespedes, we're talking a near major leage ready 5 tool talent. Guys like that aren't available in the draft, so I don't see how bringing up our lack of spending there really makes sense. You don't think KW would be willing to take a chance on a potential superstar? He's gambled on much less in the past. Agree with everything you've written 100%, except for your generic handle, haha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox_Sonix Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 QUOTE (Paint it Black @ Jan 10, 2012 -> 10:03 PM) This isn't happening. The White Sox still have a horrible reputation in the DR and Cuba for the bonus skimming scandal. Also, someone explain to me why an organization that spends no money in the draft would pay top dollar for either of these players. Excellent point. When was the last time we ever signed someone from Cuba???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ Jan 11, 2012 -> 08:41 AM) Excellent point. When was the last time we ever signed someone from Cuba???? (I know this was sarcasm, but in case anyone wanted the actual date, it was November of 2008 when we signed DV. Pretty sure this was after the Wilder case had broken.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paint it Black Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jan 10, 2012 -> 09:29 PM) I don't really see how our bonus skimming scandal would affect us in Cuba. I think the fact that we signed Viciedo months after firing Wilder is proof of that. Not sure why you think it would. As for signing Cespedes, we're talking a near major leage ready 5 tool talent. Guys like that aren't available in the draft, so I don't see how bringing up our lack of spending there really makes sense. You don't think KW would be willing to take a chance on a potential superstar? He's gambled on much less in the past. Cespedes isn't a sure thing. So I don't think I'm out of line to compare this signing to a draft pick, considering draft picks are much less expensive. My point it more as an organization, it's funny that they have no problem giving an international player without any experience culturally in America (yes it matters) millions of dollars, but can't spend anything over slot in the draft because it's too risky. QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ Jan 11, 2012 -> 07:41 AM) Excellent point. When was the last time we ever signed someone from Cuba???? 2008 was 4 years ago. But there hasn't been any international talent coming out of that area this whole time, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lillian Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Perhaps we should evaluate these Cuban players differently. I start with the assumption that there are likely some really talented players there. The level of competition as a whole is not on a par with the Big Leagues, however you have some Major League quality players who are there because they have no other option. Oh sure, they can escape, but it is risky. Here, a good player advances to the Major Leagues. In Cuba, they remain in the country and compete against each other, with players of all level of skill and talent. The good ones will dominate, but they are still good. No one puts up the kind of stats that Cespedes has, without being extremely talented. He may face a lot of good pitching, mixed in with some not good pitching, but he has produced at a rate that sets him apart from the rest of the players. It would be interesting to have stats on how well he hit against the better pitchers. I wonder if scouts have any of that kind of information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Ton of interesting stuff on Cespedes' comps: http://claydavenport.com/?p=97 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSpalehoseCWS Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jan 11, 2012 -> 09:41 PM) Ton of interesting stuff on Cespedes' comps: http://claydavenport.com/?p=97 Wow. Interesting indeed. Seems like he should be a solid MLB player if all those projections are right. Edited January 12, 2012 by CWSpalehoseCWS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 So, are we going to sign this almost 30 year old who makes great workouut tapes, or what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 So what's the most accurate information out there, age 26-30? There's strong reason to believe he's 29 or 30, it obviously becomes a MUCH MUCH higher risk...26, okay, he hits his prime in the majors at 27-30. But not if he's already right on the cusp of that age as of now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 (edited) I don't understand the people who think extending Danks is stupid and putting a damper on the "rebuild", but signing this guy, who is the same age or older would be exactly how you go about rebuilding. Isn't the ultimate goal to have as many good players as possible? I'm all for signing the guy, but I really wonder how good he is if he'll have to go to the minors at his age. Certainly not worth the money they have been talking. Edited January 12, 2012 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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