elrockinMT Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 21, 2011 -> 08:15 PM) HOW DO YOU PLAN TO DO THIS?!?!?!?! SAYING IT OVER AND OVER DOES NOT MAKE $40 MILLION APPEAR. Where does Quentin's salary equal that kind of money? CQ's production has also been better than Rios. I think we can still compete but you do it with good productive players. Sometimes you cut your loses instead of making it worse. Maybe there is a KW out there on someone elses team looking to make a splash? Granted that's unlikely but I would have thought assuming the inflated salary of a player hitting .199 in 2009 might have been unlikely too. Is this the only organization that does crazy stuff? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 21, 2011 Author Share Posted December 21, 2011 QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ Dec 21, 2011 -> 01:15 PM) The fact that Alexei and Dayan are here could potentially be something Cespedes would consider taking a little less to play with. Defecting from Cuba and playing with two fellow defectors, one of which he probably knows, would be quite comforting I'd imagine. Yeah, that was my line of logic here. He'd have a couple of countrymen to help him out and get him accustomed to the culture and the US style of baseball. Our best chance is a mix of dollars and Alexei and Dayan selling Cespedes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox_Sonix Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 21, 2011 -> 02:22 PM) Yeah, that was my line of logic here. He'd have a couple of countrymen to help him out and get him accustomed to the culture and the US style of baseball. Our best chance is a mix of dollars and Alexei and Dayan selling Cespedes. Alexei and him both played in the 2007 Pan-American games together so they do know each other at least somewhat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 21, 2011 Author Share Posted December 21, 2011 QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ Dec 21, 2011 -> 01:26 PM) Alexei and him both played in the 2007 Pan-American games together so they do know each other at least somewhat Even better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Dec 21, 2011 -> 02:20 PM) Where does Quentin's salary equal that kind of money? CQ's production has also been better than Rios. I think we can still compete but you do it with good productive players. Sometimes you cut your loses instead of making it worse. Maybe there is a KW out there on someone elses team looking to make a splash? Granted that's unlikely but I would have thought assuming the inflated salary of a player hitting .199 in 2009 might have been unlikely too. Is this the only organization that does crazy stuff? You said, and I quote "We'd be better off giving away someone like Rios". Alexis Rios has nearly $40 million remaining on his contract. After putting up one of the worst seasons in MLB history, no one in their right mind would take on that kind of money. Therefore, Giving away Alexis Rios also involves coming up with a check for $35 million or more. Spending $35 million to "Cut your losses" is not "Cutting your losses" in any way, shape, or form. Replaying 2009 does not change this simple fact. You have spent the entire offseason pretending that somehow it should be easy to get rid of Alexis Rios, and any time someone asks you why the White Sox should spend $40 million just to remove him from the roster, you shrink away and never answer it, here included. If the White Sox traded away Danks, Konerko, Quentin, Ramirez, and Thornton, and took back zero salary in the process, they could probably clear up enough money to pay Alex Rios to go away. Do you think doing so will make the White Sox a better team right now? If not, please give me your plan to clear $40 million in payroll obligations for the next season. Either that, or STOP PRETENDING THAT RIOS CAN BE MOVED. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 21, 2011 -> 08:30 PM) You said, and I quote "We'd be better off giving away someone like Rios". Alexis Rios has nearly $40 million remaining on his contract. After putting up one of the worst seasons in MLB history, no one in their right mind would take on that kind of money. Therefore, Giving away Alexis Rios also involves coming up with a check for $35 million or more. Spending $35 million to "Cut your losses" is not "Cutting your losses" in any way, shape, or form. Replaying 2009 does not change this simple fact. You have spent the entire offseason pretending that somehow it should be easy to get rid of Alexis Rios, and any time someone asks you why the White Sox should spend $40 million just to remove him from the roster, you shrink away and never answer it, here included. If the White Sox traded away Danks, Konerko, Quentin, Ramirez, and Thornton, and took back zero salary in the process, they could probably clear up enough money to pay Alex Rios to go away. Do you think doing so will make the White Sox a better team right now? If not, please give me your plan to clear $40 million in payroll obligations for the next season. Either that, or STOP PRETENDING THAT RIOS CAN BE MOVED. My point is more along the lines that you don't give away players that produce for next to nothing. Granted players might get traded - CQ included - and we keep non-performers who continue to drag us down. Now keep those good performers - like CQ - and somehow the non-performers show up and maybe we are in the mix competively. I think there is more than one way to look at things. Sometimes you have to play the devils advocate and not go along with group think. If you consider returns in trades maybe Viciedo should be traded? It seems people think he has value right? Plus some of the ideas about signing someone like the next Cuban star, who may ask for $25M plus as a signing bonus makes no more sense then dumping CQ because he is in line to make some money. I am not changing my opinion even though I know the trade of any player is a possibility. I think I am more upset with the Rios situation then even the Dunn fiasco. Really who could have predicted the absolute failure of Dunn? Rios had an iffy history and I just don't think that was well thought out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 21, 2011 Author Share Posted December 21, 2011 QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Dec 21, 2011 -> 01:40 PM) My point is more along the lines that you don't give away players that produce for next to nothing. Granted players might get traded - CQ included - and we keep non-performers who continue to drag us down. Now keep those good performers - like CQ - and somehow the non-performers show up and maybe we are in the mix competively. I think there is more than one way to look at things. Sometimes you have to play the devils advocate and not go along with group think. If you consider returns in trades maybe Viciedo should be traded? It seems people think he has value right? Plus some of the ideas about signing someone like the next Cuban star, who may ask for $25M plus as a signing bonus makes no more sense then dumping CQ because he is in line to make some money. I am not changing my opinion even though I know the trade of any player is a possibility. I think I am more upset with the Rios situation then even the Dunn fiasco. Really who could have predicted the absolute failure of Dunn? Rios had an iffy history and I just don't think that was well thought out. The Cuban player is under control for six years. Q is for two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 21, 2011 -> 02:42 PM) The Cuban player is under control for six years. Q is for two. ? Carlos is under team control for 1 more year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 21, 2011 -> 08:42 PM) The Cuban player is under control for six years. Q is for two. Hopefully we see production from Vicideo. But, using the logic of some then Dayan could get us more in return because he is under control longer. CQ has the major league history. Viciedo doesn't. I am not calling for his being traded mind you just saying that things can be looked at different ways. I want to win and I think winning means keeping someone like CQ. Edited December 21, 2011 by elrockinMT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Dec 21, 2011 -> 02:40 PM) My point is more along the lines that you don't give away players that produce for next to nothing. Granted players might get traded - CQ included - and we keep non-performers who continue to drag us down. Now keep those good performers - like CQ - and somehow the non-performers show up and maybe we are in the mix competively. I think there is more than one way to look at things. Sometimes you have to play the devils advocate and not go along with group think. If you consider returns in trades maybe Viciedo should be traded? It seems people think he has value right? Plus some of the ideas about signing someone like the next Cuban star, who may ask for $25M plus as a signing bonus makes no more sense then dumping CQ because he is in line to make some money. I am not changing my opinion even though I know the trade of any player is a possibility. I think I am more upset with the Rios situation then even the Dunn fiasco. Really who could have predicted the absolute failure of Dunn? Rios had an iffy history and I just don't think that was well thought out. The problem is...Carlos Quentin has not been a good performer for the White Sox, at least not well beyond the level of his current salary. That's why it's really hard to get a good return for Carlos Quentin...you're lucky if he gives you 1/2 of a baseball season with decent performance. He IS one of the non-performers who are dragging the team down...if he could have stayed healthy, then he'd be a vastly more valuable piece than he currently is. Right now, Carlos Quentin is a guy that a team desperate for a bat might take a flyer on, but nothing more than that. He's too likely to get hurt, he's a substantial cost now in his final arb year, and he's going to walk at the end fo the year. The White Sox have zero need for a player like that. Especially with 4 other OF's on the roster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 21, 2011 -> 08:46 PM) The problem is...Carlos Quentin has not been a good performer for the White Sox, at least not well beyond the level of his current salary. That's why it's really hard to get a good return for Carlos Quentin...you're lucky if he gives you 1/2 of a baseball season with decent performance. He IS one of the non-performers who are dragging the team down...if he could have stayed healthy, then he'd be a vastly more valuable piece than he currently is. But, he can't be blamed for the injuries. he is injured because he performs all out. He gives you max performance. He doesn't sluff off. PK was injured also. But, PK didn't and doesn't sluff off. Now to say the injury history is a negative thing might be applied to say Jake Peavy. I think he is a real competitor, but might never be able to rebound from his injuries and pitch like a $22M pitcher should. I have a hard time following the salary thing with CQ. Look at some with 20 homers a year signing for more than what CQ is making. I lay this squarely at the doorstep of KW. He won't admit it but if his decisions have come back to haunt the Sox and it is now ALL about the money and no longer anout WINNING and COMPETING admit it and let's be satisfied with several years of sub par results. I think we are better off competing with who we have for the most part. But, I guess you have to pay the fiddler at some point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOXOBAMA Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 where did you hear Cliff Floyd. He's one of my old patient who I really liked. One of the best high school baseball players i've ever seen in illinois. Cliff Floyd has a radio show on the MLB Network on Sirius during the evening hours.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOXOBAMA Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 CQ body is made out of a glass. The faster he is gone the better this team will be.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Dec 21, 2011 -> 02:56 PM) He won't admit it Except by, oh, I don't know..."OFFERING TO RESIGN". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justBLAZE Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 QUOTE (SOXOBAMA @ Dec 21, 2011 -> 01:57 PM) CQ body is made out of a glass. The faster he is gone the better this team will be.. Oh geez. Say it to his face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOXOBAMA Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 CQ is one of the most overrated players to ever play for the Sox.. He had one good season Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 QUOTE (SOXOBAMA @ Dec 21, 2011 -> 01:56 PM) Cliff Floyd has a radio show on the MLB Network on Sirius during the evening hours.. Thanks. I have XM/Sirius. i'll have to tune in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 QUOTE (SOXOBAMA @ Dec 21, 2011 -> 10:18 AM) I heard last night on MLB Radio. I believe it was CLiff Floyd reporting that the White Sox will go all out and try to sign Cespedes. The guy sounds like one of those special talents. The type of guy you could build your franchise around. That said, huge risk here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Dec 21, 2011 -> 01:14 PM) Carlos Quentin is also the one who deserves to play the most of the five. We would be better off "giving away" someone like Rios. Even if we did sign some new Cuban phenom chances are he might be in the minors just like Viciedo was. :angry: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 QUOTE (SOXOBAMA @ Dec 21, 2011 -> 02:04 PM) CQ is one of the most overrated players to ever play for the Sox.. He had one good season I think all you have to do is be a regular player for a Sox playoff team, and your legend will never die. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cali Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Dec 21, 2011 -> 01:34 PM) I think all you have to do is be a regular player for a Sox playoff team, and your legend will never die. or Manager Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 CQ has had four pretty good years, two of which were real good IMO, for the Sox. Even when injured he never finished with less than 21 homers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Let me reiterate. Wait, what? That being said, I'd be cool with this signing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanne Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Not my money...bring it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 (edited) It COULD happen, because of the presence of Viciedo and Alexei...as well as Contreras and El Duque in the recent past. But likely? 5-10%. Unless we're trying to make another splash...just don't see JR committing those dollars to an unproven talent. Maybe our 2 Cubans can convince the front office how much he's actually worth in their eyes. Edited December 22, 2011 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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