k0na breaks story on Danks 5 years/$65mil ext...Heyman confirms

[Balta1701]

I disagree. I think it's a good way to build confidence and learn how to pitch to MLB hitters without getting "thrown to the wolves." You can pick and choose the situations to help them learn.

The real issue I have is that the Sox are putting guys in the bullpen at the expense of them getting their innings in. The other dominant guys around the league who started in the pen got their innings in at the minor league level before sneaking into the pen for some experience. When David Price pitched out of the pen for the Rays, he'd already thrown 108 innings in the minors that year. I hear your point...but "Conditioning a guy's arm", especially for the kind of raw kids we're getting, has to be the priority.

[Balta1701]

That needs to be the slogan for 2012.

I still say the slogan we're running is "Last year was Mark's fault".

[Balta1701]

For Sale, it made sense. He was being groomed pretty much exclusively at the major league level, and his arm wasn't tuned to 200 innings yet anyway, so it made sense. Molina is trying to build up innings (being a transitioned position player), has been a starter for a couple years, and isn't being jumped early. The cases are just not that similar, and I'd rather Molina was getting starter innings in the minors learning how to pitch.

His arm had thrown 150 innings in the 2 previous years...and you can't possibly tell me that you look at his frame and think "this is a guy who is guaranteed to stay healthy, so we can do whatever we want to with him". I understand why it was done...that's the definition of going "All-in", risking your top prospect on being in the bullpen for a year, but we're going to have to live with the consequences this year. If that means he gets hurt, or wears down after 120 innings and becomes less reliable than Humber last year, then that's the choice we made.

[Swingandalongonetoleft]

With Buehrle creeping up there age-wise, I suppose I've come to accept his tenure on the Sox being nixed. Good to know that at least one likeable piece will be back next year.

[southsider2k5]

It's not uncommon to have a young pitcher start off in the bullpen to get a feel for how to get MLB hitters out and work with the MLB pitching coach for a year then move to the rotation the next year.

There's no problem with it if you don't try to ove him into the starting role the same year. If he has an off season to prepare for being a starter he'll be fine.

 

Its also nice because you get a chance to play the match ups and situations better as you are bringing a kid along. The opportunity to be in more situations to succeed is definitely there.

[Milkman delivers]

The best thing about this extension is that I sound like I have inside sources to my friends, as I texted them about the rumor as soon as I heard it

[Rowand44]

The best thing about this extension is that I sound like I have inside sources to my friends, as I texted them about the rumor as soon as I heard it

I do that all the time considering Twitter and/or Soxtalk will always get a hold of something well before 99 percent of the public know.

[sunofgold]

Sounds good. Danks is basically a younger version of Buehrle. Going to need a stabilizer in the rotation. Like the move.

[ptatc]

The real issue I have is that the Sox are putting guys in the bullpen at the expense of them getting their innings in. The other dominant guys around the league who started in the pen got their innings in at the minor league level before sneaking into the pen for some experience. When David Price pitched out of the pen for the Rays, he'd already thrown 108 innings in the minors that year. I hear your point...but "Conditioning a guy's arm", especially for the kind of raw kids we're getting, has to be the priority.

The conditioning the arm part really only applies to guys straight out of college or ones who have had very few innings pitched in the minors. Sale would fall into this category for concern. Anyone who has pitched more than 2-3 years in the minors as a starter I wouldn't worry about it. They can increase their workload over the off season and spring training to get ready to start.

[southsider2k5]

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/12/olne..._medium=twitter

 

Chicago’s asking price for John Danks was “extraordinarily high” before yesterday’s extension, MLB executives tell Olney. The White Sox were looking for a return like the one the Rockies obtained from the Indians for Ubaldo Jimenez in the summer. No teams were willing to match GM Kenny Williams’ asking price, so the White Sox talked extension with Danks.

[hogan873]

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/12/olne..._medium=twitter

Makes sense. I think in the long run this move will be good for the Sox. I believe Danks at an average of $13 million per is a good deal. I was thinking he'd get upwards of $16 million+ per after 2012...and after he was traded from the Sox.

[kwolf68]

 

I for one did not like and still don't like the Santos move, but I am glad KW hung onto Danks instead of dealing him away for crap. Now the Yankees, Red Sox, or whoever likes Danks can sit on their bag of untested/unproven prospects while they try to outscore people 8-7.

 

And if these other teams thought the asking price was high before yesterday, then guess what?

 

John Danks is STILL ONLY 26 years old. Hell, the dude hasn't really even hit his prime. He is an innings eater, a bulldog, and talented. WHY NOT keep him even if we're rebuilding? I'd rather rebuild and win 75 games instead of rebuild and winning 60.

 

There are still movable pieces on this team and lets see what happens there...TCQ, Floyd, Thornton, possibly others.

 

Even if Gavin Floyd is moved, the starting rotation is actually quite promising, especially if the million dollar man (Peavy) can return to some part of his former glory.

 

Still, this was indeed a bizarre move, mainly because I didn't see it coming. But is it a bad move? Hardly.

 

 

 

[southsider2k5]

Makes sense. I think in the long run this move will be good for the Sox. I believe Danks at an average of $13 million per is a good deal. I was thinking he'd get upwards of $16 million+ per after 2012...and after he was traded from the Sox.

 

Kalapse said this the other day, and it makes sense. The front year is probably in the $9 million range, reflecting his last arb year. Then it probably goes up from there, as the Peavy deal comes off of the books.

[beck72]

Yes, let's put another long-term-starter in the bullpen. See how many more pitchers we can set up where they hit a 120 inning limit when they move to being a starter.

It's a matter of having competition for the 5 man rotation, and having other arms make up the pen. And Axelrod and Stewart aren't exactly #1's or #2's. Molina should be kept in the AAA rotation, as he has a higher ceiling. Yet many guys have started in the bullpen breaking into the bigs, then moved into the rotation.

[beck72]

Molina will be nowhere near the bullpen. They did not acquire him to be a reliever, they seem him as a mid-rotation or better starter. Zero chance he is in the pen, unless he fails at starting for multiple years.

 

Stewart though, does seem to profile better as a reliever, so I agree there.

 

Axelrod, I am probably in the minority, but I actually believe he can be a solid major league starter. Probably no better than a 3/4 if that, but still, that has a LOT more value than a middle reliever. So I'd rather he be at the head of the rotation in Charlotte, ready to jump in as a starter if needed.

I agree with Molina. And he'll get his shot in the rotation in AAA prob. Yet there are reports he could be a dominating reliever. He still needs to watch his innings, as he just started last year. I wouldn't be surprised to see him in the Sox bullpen later in the year, as they could keep his innings down.

 

I'm just saying having a bunch of 4, 5 SP types in the Stewart/ Axelrod/ Humber mold, the sox can have competition for the final spots. And use the other to round out the bullpen. Having converted SP's can only help the bullpen. They can throw multiple innings and have more than 2 pitches.

[Balta1701]

The conditioning the arm part really only applies to guys straight out of college or ones who have had very few innings pitched in the minors. Sale would fall into this category for concern. Anyone who has pitched more than 2-3 years in the minors as a starter I wouldn't worry about it. They can increase their workload over the off season and spring training to get ready to start.

Who do the Sox have as a legit pitching prospect for the future that has pitched more than 2-3 years in the minors as a starter? Not Sale, not Stewart, not Molina. Pretty much no one that has any hope of winding up on the team in the near future other than maybe Axelrod, who I don't care if he's put in the pen.

 

Which is why I react strongly negatively to the idea of putting Stewart or Molina in the pen, and why doing so with Sale last eyar was so risky.

[ptatc]

Who do the Sox have as a legit pitching prospect for the future that has pitched more than 2-3 years in the minors as a starter? Not Sale, not Stewart, not Molina. Pretty much no one that has any hope of winding up on the team in the near future other than maybe Axelrod, who I don't care if he's put in the pen.

 

Which is why I react strongly negatively to the idea of putting Stewart or Molina in the pen, and why doing so with Sale last eyar was so risky.

I would put Stewart and Molina in the category of not neededing to worry about innings. Both have had enough time and innings the past few years. Now whether they are ready for the MLB is another story. But if the Sox felt the physically they were ready and all they needed now was Learning. I wouldn't have a problem with it. However, from what I've read Molina isn't ready but Stweart could be.

 

I agree with Sale he has not had the innings. He will not be ready to pitch 200 inngs this year. I would say the 150-180 would be plenty for him.

[Balta1701]

I would put Stewart and Molina in the category of not neededing to worry about innings. Both have had enough time and innings the past few years. Now whether they are ready for the MLB is another story. But if the Sox felt the physically they were ready and all they needed now was Learning. I wouldn't have a problem with it. However, from what I've read Molina isn't ready but Stweart could be.

 

I agree with Sale he has not had the innings. He will not be ready to pitch 200 inngs this year. I would say the 150-180 would be plenty for him.

Have you actually looked at their stat sheets? Stewart is a converted reliever who was clearly tiring this year after 100 innings, and Molina has basically been a pitcher for 2 years. Molina has had 1 full season as a starter, Stewart has at least had about 2. Playing with those guys arms/condition by putting them in the bullpen for a full season is crazy.

[ptatc]

Have you actually looked at their stat sheets? Stewart is a converted reliever who was clearly tiring this year after 100 innings, and Molina has basically been a pitcher for 2 years. Molina has had 1 full season as a starter, Stewart has at least had about 2. Playing with those guys arms/condition by putting them in the bullpen for a full season is crazy.

I would still disagree. I think they have enough time in that with a full off season they would be ready for being a starter. this doesn't include a scenario where they began the season as a reliever and then turned into starting. That would not go well. this is only in reference to their physical development, not if they are mentally or "have the feel for pitching. That is another situation.

However, all of this is just from my opinion from my experience. There is no right or wrong or black and white with the development of pitchers. There are many ways to handle them some work better than other for a given individual.

Edited December 22, 2011 by ptatc

[SOXOBAMA]

Kenny Williams said the White Sox were rebuilding.

 

He never said they were trying to lose.

 

He definitely never said that the White Sox were looking at a long-term rebuilding project.

 

The White Sox's decision to sign John Danks to a five-year, $65 million contract, after spending the first part of the winter trying to trade their left-handed starter, certainly caught people by surprise. But it may not be the complete about-face that it at first seemed to be.

 

First off, Danks is still just 26. Even when Williams was talking about rebuilding, he was primarily talking about getting younger. A 26-year-old lefty who has averaged 195 innings a year over the last four seasons fits in perfectly, once you're sure you won't lose him to free agency in another year.

 

Second, the White Sox knew they were never going to be able to trade high-priced players like Alex Rios, Adam Dunn or Jake Peavy, and almost certainly weren't going to trade Paul Konerko, either. It's not like they were ever going to slash their payroll down to nothing.

 

Third, the word in both the international scouting community and among White Sox people is that the Sox could be very involved in the bidding for 26-year-old Cuban outfielder Yoenis Cespedes, who should become a free agent next month.

 

Fourth, the White Sox play in the American League Central. Yes, the Tigers look strong, the Royals are getting better and the Indians are trying harder, but this is not the toughest division in the game.

 

In fact, some White Sox people cringed when Williams began talking openly about "rebuilding."

 

"We are not rebuilding," one of them said forcefully.

 

Now, with Danks signed, some of those White Sox people were actually talking Thursday about what needs to happen for them to win in 2012.

 

Chris Sale needs to effectively take Mark Buehrle's spot in the rotation. Peavy needs to be better, a year further on from surgery.

 

Dunn and/or Rios need to bounce back.

 

Oh, and someone needs to take Sergio Santos' place as closer.

 

The Santos trade, to Toronto for pitching prospect Nestor Molina, is the only deal the Sox have made so far in their "rebuilding" winter. It fit the rebuilding mode, although it is worth remembering that while Santos has just two years in the big leagues, he is a year and a half older than Danks.

 

Perhaps the White Sox will still trade Gavin Floyd. It still wouldn't surprise anyone if they deal Carlos Quentin, especially with Dayan Viciedo waiting (and maybe Cespedes, too).

 

But a complete rebuilding?

 

No, that's the team on the other side of town.

 

 

http://danny-knobler.blogs.cbssports.com/m...590096/33992280

Edited December 22, 2011 by SOXOBAMA

[Soxfest]

keithlaw keithlaw

If you're rebuilding, you trade Danks. If you re-sign Danks, you're not rebuilding. If you re-sign Danks while rebuilding, you're lost.

1 minute ago Favorite Retweet Reply

I loathe Law the Sox could get the top 3 players in baseball and he would act like Sox are worse because if it. Law NEVER has a good word for the Sox but is a Cub loving kissass.,

[Steve9347]

He'll be 27 in april.. not exactly a spring chicken, but maybe your definition of a young athlete is different than mine

His definition is clearly much closer to reality than yours.

[Steve9347]

the prime years of a pro boxer are nearly identical to that of an MLB player (~25-26 in boxing), but that's another subject

The prime is much closer to 27-30.

[witesoxfan]

People think of the word rebuilding as tearing the entire team apart and building through the minor league system. People think of retooling as tearing the entire team apart and building through the major league team. Most view the latter as inefficient.

 

The problem with that scenario is that people assume that the two concepts are mutually exclusive. They are not. You can rebuild and retool at the same exact time. The White Sox did it in the 2007 season when they signed Pierzynski, Buehrle, and Dye to contract extensions. Those moves were much crazier than this move.

 

I love this move. It's a very good value for a very solid pitcher who is just entering his prime. It's very likely that he will live up to the value of this contract. Beyond that, this move doesn't stop them from continuing a rebuild. As was mentioned elsewhere, it simply alludes to the idea that the Sox will trade other pieces as well and that Williams will not be in a hurry to do so. I have no problem with that either.

 

It is frustrating as a fan because we have no idea what to expect at this point. Instead of being frustrated, I'm just going to sit back and enjoy the ride at this point because I have no idea what the hell they are going to do.

[Jordan4life_2007]

I loathe Law the Sox could get the top 3 players in baseball and he would act like Sox are worse because if it. Law NEVER has a good word for the Sox but is a Cub loving kissass.,

 

This is totally false. But this myth has evolved every year since, like, 2003. So whatever.

Edited December 22, 2011 by Jordan4life