2011-2012 NBA Season Thread

[Felix]

Do you think Beasley is going to take a step forward this season?

Not until he realizes that he's not a superstar and accepts his role on the team. The problem with Beasley is the ball basically stops every time it gets to him in the offense, which is alright (although not ideal) if it's a superstar, but when it's Michael Beasley you have some problems. He doesn't shoot at a high enough percentage to justify taking as many shots as he does (especially since he loves to take really long 2s, which are one of the worst shots in basketball) and doesn't get to the line anywhere near enough. He loves to iso, but isn't anywhere near good enough to pull it off.

 

Really, there's no excuse for the offense not to be run through Rubio and Love at this point. Rubio has done an outstanding job finding the open man on the perimeter so far, especially in pick & roll situations, while Love has developed his three-point shot even more over the offseason, making him a rather deadly shooter (.596 TS% this year). Love was even nailing step back threes against Dallas yesterday, which could end up being huge for his offensive development.

Edited January 2, 2012 by Felix

[Kyyle23]

Not until he realizes that he's not a superstar and accepts his role on the team. The problem with Beasley is the ball basically stops every time it gets to him in the offense, which is alright (although not ideal) if it's a superstar, but when it's Michael Beasley you have some problems. He doesn't shoot at a high enough percentage to justify taking as many shots as he does (especially since he loves to take really long 2s, which are one of the worst shots in basketball) and doesn't get to the line anywhere near enough. He loves to iso, but isn't anywhere near good enough to pull it off.

 

Really, there's no excuse for the offense not to be run through Rubio and Love at this point. Rubio has done an outstanding job finding the open man on the perimeter so far, especially in pick & roll situations, while Love has developed his three-point shot even more over the offseason, making him a rather deadly shooter (.596 TS% this year). Love was even nailing step back threes against Dallas yesterday, which could end up being huge for his offensive development.

 

Yeah I knew Beasley was a black hole in the offense since he came into the NBA, I was curious if he had made any attempts to fix this, apparently not lol.

 

Wasn't he more of a banger and inside presence in college? Or was that because the competition wasn't nearly the same and now he is facing grown men instead of redshirt and true freshmen?

[Balta1701]

Yeah I knew Beasley was a black hole in the offense since he came into the NBA, I was curious if he had made any attempts to fix this, apparently not lol.

 

Wasn't he more of a banger and inside presence in college? Or was that because the competition wasn't nearly the same and now he is facing grown men instead of redshirt and true freshmen?

He was much more of an inside presence in college, but being undersized doesn't hurt you as much in college as it does when you get into the league.

[maggsmaggs]

But...they aren't athletic enough

 

BTW, the Heat are 5-0 but aside from a very different Mavs team and a Pierce-less Celtics, they haven't really impressed me...Bulls beat the Lakers, Clippers and Grizzlies, teams that are supposed to make some noise in the WC.

Bulls beat a Bynum-less Lakers team. If both are playing their best, the Bulls will not beat the Heat. We just got to hope that if/when we play the Heat, they don't play up to their potential.

[Felix]

He was much more of an inside presence in college, but being undersized doesn't hurt you as much in college as it does when you get into the league.

I'm sure this is a big part of it, but it also certainly doesn't help that he's been put at the 3 for most of his NBA career when he's probably much more suited to play the 4. As a 3, he settles for a jumper way too much and rarely gets to the free throw line, which is why he's averaged 16 points on 14 shots throughout his career. Basically, Michael Beasley is the definition of an inefficient NBA player.

 

At this point, the Wolves should be trying to flip him (and/or Wes Johnson) to someone for a legitimate 2, 3 or 5. Some Wolves sites have been pining for a Dudley/Gortat trade with Phoenix, although I'm not sure the Wolves have the ammunition to pull off a move like that without including Derrick Williams, which doesn't sound ideal to me. JJ Redick would also be a perfect fit, but again, not sure what the Wolves could give up to make it worth Orlando's time. Same goes for Arron Afflalo.

Edited January 2, 2012 by Felix

[Balta1701]

Bulls beat a Bynum-less Lakers team. If both are playing their best, the Bulls will not beat the Heat. We just got to hope that if/when we play the Heat, they don't play up to their potential.

Did both teams play their best in the playoff series last year? because even though the HEat won in 5, that was at least a close series, and the Bulls still have plenty of room to improve from there.

[maggsmaggs]

Did both teams play their best in the playoff series last year? because even though the HEat won in 5, that was at least a close series, and the Bulls still have plenty of room to improve from there.

I don't think the Heat did at all. But I think there is no way to stop the Heat when LeBron/Wade are playing at full capacity. Rose was unable to do anything when LeBron guarded him. Now they have three elite wing defenders with him, Wade and Battier. Bulls still have a serious problem in that there is no second ball handler to create their own shot. When you play a team like the Heat who can put the league's most athletic player and possibly the league's best wing defender (when LeBron wants to be), you desperately need that second ball handler. Rip ain't it. Brewer ain't it either. Crawford was probably the best ball handler out there, but he wasn't a good fit defensively. And the Bulls could compensate for the lack of a second ball handler with a dominant post scorer, but we don't have either. Boozer appears and disappears and isn't really even scoring in the post.

Edited January 2, 2012 by maggsmaggs

[MexSoxFan#1]

Bulls beat a Bynum-less Lakers team. If both are playing their best, the Bulls will not beat the Heat. We just got to hope that if/when we play the Heat, they don't play up to their potential.

To be fair, Rose wasn't the same after his ankle injury he suffered vs the Pacers, and Noah was ineffective after his hand injury, he didn't even play the 4th qtr in those playoff games, the Bulls advantage is in the PG and C position vs the Heat and with those players hampered, that nullified the Bulls advantage.I really believe the Bulls playing their best vs the Heat playing their best, it won't be a Heat 4-1 playoff victory again.The Bulls can beat Miami, they are bigger and deeper.Korver won't suck again, he missed a ton of open looks, at least I hope not.

[Quin]

Other than the hair and I guess the flair on the court, he's not really that similar to Maravich at all.

 

That was 90% of my basis for it.

[ZoomSlowik]

I'm sure this is a big part of it, but it also certainly doesn't help that he's been put at the 3 for most of his NBA career when he's probably much more suited to play the 4. As a 3, he settles for a jumper way too much and rarely gets to the free throw line, which is why he's averaged 16 points on 14 shots throughout his career. Basically, Michael Beasley is the definition of an inefficient NBA player.

 

That's a large part of the problem right there, he's become a jump-shooter instead of attacking the basket like he did in college. It doesn't appear to be a "he can't finish against NBA players" issue either because he's at nearly 80% in the basket area so far this year after being around 65% the previous two years. He needs to be playing PF, preferrably for a team that pushes the pace so he doesn't have to defend a lot in the half court. Unfortunately, that's not going to happen in Minnesota.

Edited January 2, 2012 by ZoomSlowik

[Jordan4life_2007]

To be fair, Rose wasn't the same after his ankle injury he suffered vs the Pacers, and Noah was ineffective after his hand injury, he didn't even play the 4th qtr in those playoff games, the Bulls advantage is in the PG and C position vs the Heat and with those players hampered, that nullified the Bulls advantage.I really believe the Bulls playing their best vs the Heat playing their best, it won't be a Heat 4-1 playoff victory again.The Bulls can beat Miami, they are bigger and deeper.Korver won't suck again, he missed a ton of open looks, at least I hope not.

 

You need to put that Bulls crack pipe down. Under no circumstance, outside of injury, can this Bulls team beat a Miami team playing at an optimal or near optimal level. The Bulls advantage at C is nullified because Miami can just go with either Bosh/Haslem, Haslem/Bosh at the 4/5 and be just fine. As far as depth goes, I don't know if this Norris Cole character is for real or not, but if he is, that advantage goes out the window as well. Once Battier gets acclimated, you have a bench of Cole, Battier, Haslem, Jones, Miller (though he has to prove he's healthy).

[Rowand44]

You need to put that Bulls crack pipe down. Under no circumstance, outside of injury, can this Bulls team beat a Miami team playing at an optimal or near optimal level. The Bulls advantage at C is nullified because Miami can just go with either Bosh/Haslem, Haslem/Bosh at the 4/5 and be just fine. As far as depth goes, I don't know if this Norris Cole character is for real or not, but if he is, that advantage goes out the window as well. Once Battier gets acclimated, you have a bench of Cole, Battier, Haslem, Jones, Miller (though he has to prove he's healthy).

Are the Knicks still better than the Bulls?

[Jordan4life_2007]

Are the Knicks still better than the Bulls?

 

I never said the Knicks were definitively better. I said they had a case. And only time will tell. But who cares. Neither can touch the Heat.

[Balta1701]

I never said the Knicks were definitively better. I said they had a case. And only time will tell. But who cares. Neither can touch the Heat.

Last May I'd have agreed with you, at least about the Heat. Then the Finals happened, and the Heat were thoroughly outplayed by the Mavs.

 

If the Mavs can outplay the Heat that completely, then the Heat are not untouchable.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Last May I'd have agreed with you, at least about the Heat. Then the Finals happened, and the Heat were thoroughly outplayed by the Mavs.

 

If the Mavs can outplay the Heat that completely, then the Heat are not untouchable.

 

Thoroughly? Really? 2-2 after 4 games with Miami blowing a 15 point lead with just over 6 minutes to go in game 2, and losing game 4 by I believe 3 points? Then Dallas basically went nuts from 3 in games 5 and 6. Dallas was better. But I wouldn't say they were that much better. Last year was the year to get at the Heat. First year playing together, lack of depth, etc. We're still very early in the season, obviously. But if you've watched even bits and pieces of any of their games, you see they're playing at a much faster pace - which is a more conducive style to the exceptional athletes they have all over the court.

Edited January 2, 2012 by Jordan4life

[Balta1701]

But that same Heat team has had major fights against Boston (sans Pierce), Charlotte, and Minnesota, which they really shouldn't have had.

[Jordan4life_2007]

But that same Heat team has had major fights against Boston (sans Pierce), Charlotte, and Minnesota, which they really shouldn't have had.

 

So let's put an asterisk on the Bulls Christmas day win. No Bynum. And apparently the Heat have to win every game by double figures. Gotcha.

[Balta1701]

So let's put an asterisk on the Bulls Christmas day win. No Bynum. And apparently the Heat have to win every game by double figures. Gotcha.

Well yeah, if you want to ask how the Bulls are performing this season, that is a legit asterisk.

 

Unfortunately, we have 5 games so far to evaluate these teams on this season, and the Heat don't seem remarkably strong compared to last year...outside of that performance against Dallas on opening day.

[MexSoxFan#1]

You need to put that Bulls crack pipe down. Under no circumstance, outside of injury, can this Bulls team beat a Miami team playing at an optimal or near optimal level. The Bulls advantage at C is nullified because Miami can just go with either Bosh/Haslem, Haslem/Bosh at the 4/5 and be just fine. As far as depth goes, I don't know if this Norris Cole character is for real or not, but if he is, that advantage goes out the window as well. Once Battier gets acclimated, you have a bench of Cole, Battier, Haslem, Jones, Miller (though he has to prove he's healthy).

We'll just have to see, I'm not ready to give the title to Miami.You also need to put your Heat crack pipe down, I'm not buying the Heat are unbeatable argument, hell yeah they can be beat.Micheal Jordan was really the only player you could say was unbeatable.James is nowhere near that level or else he would've won a title already.The Bulls have a bigger upside, they are younger and deeper and now have deep playoffs expirience.

 

If that Mavs team can beat Miami, then they definitely can be beaten.

Edited January 2, 2012 by MexSoxFan#1

[MexSoxFan#1]

I would also like to add that Cole looks good so far but in no way way is he going to nullify the Bulls PG advantage, I'll take a risk and say Rose>>>>Cole.

 

You have to remember that Rose was 22 last year and never went that deep in the playoffs before, he can take LBJ on, he'll be more aggressive this time and attack him instead of taking fade away jumpers.Let Rose develope, kid is still learning the game and has been improving every year.

[Balta1701]

I would also like to add that Cole looks good so far but in no way way is he going to nullify the Bulls PG advantage, I'll take a risk and say Rose>>>>Cole.

 

You have to remember that Rose was 22 last year and never went that deep in the playoffs before, he can take LBJ on, he'll be more aggressive this time and attack him instead of taking fade away jumpers.Let Rose develope, kid is still learning the game and has been improving every year.

I'd say that Rose actually made a mistake by trying to take Lebron on, he can't do that. The guy is almost as fast as Rose but is also half a foot taller and what, 75 pounds more?

 

He needs to be able to go to other people if Lebron alone is going to try to shut down Rose.

[Jordan4life_2007]

We'll just have to see, I'm not ready to give the title to Miami.You also need to put your Heat crack pipe down, I'm not buying the Heat are unbeatable argument, hell yeah they can be beat.Micheal Jordan was really the only player you could say was unbeatable.James is nowhere near that level or else he would've won a title already.The Bulls have a bigger upside, they are younger and deeper and now have deep playoffs expirience.

 

If that Mavs team can beat Miami, then they definitely can be beaten.

 

I don't believe any eastern conference team can beat Miami. I never said they couldn't be beaten. You're still trying to rationalize last year's loss (Noah was hurt, Korver couldn't shoot, etc) and saying the series was close despite losing in 5 games. Though there's no mention of Wade's uncharacteristic bad shooting series, Haslem being rusty after missing 70 games, Mike Miller being a non-factor with the wrist injury, etc. The Bulls have bigger upside than Miami because they're younger? The Heat's entire starting 5 is 29 and younger. The depth is overblown. And the Heat have the same "deep" playoff experience.

[Balta1701]

I don't believe any eastern conference team can beat Miami. I never said they couldn't be beaten. You're still trying to rationalize last year's loss (Noah was hurt, Korver couldn't shoot, etc) and saying the series was close despite losing in 5 games. Though there's no mention of Wade's uncharacteristic bad shooting series, Haslem being rusty after missing 70 games, Mike Miller being a non-factor with the wrist injury, etc. The Bulls have bigger upside than Miami because they're younger? The Heat's entire starting 5 is 29 and younger. The depth is overblown. And the Heat have the same "deep" playoff experience.

Wade's bad shooting series was caused by the same thing that Rose's bad shooting series was caused by...incredible defense by the opposing team. And although Haslem was rusty, he also basically single-handedly won a game where the Bulls didn't expect him.

 

You can go back and forth on this for both sides. Hopefully we get another conference championship test to see.

[sircaffey]

But if you've watched even bits and pieces of any of their games, you see they're playing at a much faster pace - which is a more conducive style to the exceptional athletes they have all over the court.

Which will be A LOT tougher to do against this Bulls team. Like you said, the Heat are at their best when they can get to the rim and get out on the fastbreak which is why their weakness in the paint is not a problem you can just overlook. The Bulls will control the paint both defensively and on the boards against the Heat. The Heat will not be able to beat the Bulls relying on the fastbreak. They will have to win it in the half court, which is where the Bulls are great defensively, and the Heat are mediocre offensive.

[Quin]

Ronnie Brewer is nailing 3's, therefore we are the best team. Ever.