Steve9347 Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 QUOTE (Felix @ Jan 9, 2012 -> 11:53 PM) Wolves are going to get stomped by the Bulls tomorrow. Last game of a back-to-back-to-back in three different cities, coming off a bad loss to a bad team and banged up. Certainly doesn't help that we're starting our four worst players alongside Love. Beasley's been injured, yo, so he's NOT starting alongside Love right now. In fact, Adelman now wants to use him as the 6th man since he's a purely isolation scorer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sircaffey Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 QUOTE (Felix @ Jan 10, 2012 -> 10:15 AM) Using this logic, you'd then have me believe that since he started shooting more three pointers, he's become more effective and a better scorer in the lane, right? Rose's shooting numbers from within 9 feet throughout his career: 2009 - 4.0 FG, 7.1 FGA = 56.3% 2010 - 4.3 FG, 7.7 FGA = 55.8% 2011 - 4.8 FG, 8.7 FGA = 55.1% He's been creating his shot more often in the lane than he did as a rookie (23.9 %As in 2009 opposed to 15.6 in 2011), but the idea that he's becoming more effective at it certainly doesn't seem to hold any water. Your stats back up his claim. Since Rose has developed a 3 PT game, he's getting more shots within 9 feet. You don't really expect any player to shoot much higher than 55% within 9 feet do you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jan 10, 2012 -> 10:38 AM) Beasley's been injured, yo, so he's NOT starting alongside Love right now. In fact, Adelman now wants to use him as the 6th man since he's a purely isolation scorer. No s***. Good thing we're starting Wayne Ellington in his place, who ranks as our fifth worst player right now. I've also yet to see any evidence of your second claim. Yes, I know what Adelman just said about it, but that doesn't mean he's going to necessarily do it. Now, I certainly think he SHOULD move Beasley to a 6th man role, but until he actually moves him and Beasley stops playing 30+ minutes per game, I'm not convinced that it's going to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Jan 10, 2012 -> 08:55 AM) Eh, the last game or two maybe. He was brutal the first week of the season. Kyle Korver's shot is pretty important to this team. With two guards out (Rip and CJ), you have to expect to see a lot of Korver and The THIRD. I'd rather Korver get a lot of minutes against the Pistons to figure out his shot for when we'll need him. If we're 100% healthy, he wouldn't see those minutes. It's time to find something else to worry about... rotations get screwy when your starting SG gets injured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Jan 10, 2012 -> 09:54 AM) A vastly overrated player who plays when he wants to. He's the closest I could think of I guess. I would argue that Carmelo Anthony is vastly underrated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 QUOTE (sircaffey @ Jan 10, 2012 -> 10:40 AM) Your stats back up his claim. Since Rose has developed a 3 PT game, he's getting more shots within 9 feet. You don't really expect any player to shoot much higher than 55% within 9 feet do you? He's getting more shots, but he hasn't been making a higher percentage of those shots, which you would expect if the lane was opening up. Add in the fact that there are players like Dwayne Wade, who takes a token three pointer here and there to keep the defense honest, but still gets to the rim/paint at ease, and I'm not buying the argument that taking 5 threes a game at a low clip will positively impact your game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 QUOTE (Felix @ Jan 10, 2012 -> 10:42 AM) Yes, I know what Adelman just said about it, but that doesn't mean he's going to necessarily do it. Now, I certainly think he SHOULD move Beasley to a 6th man role, but until he actually moves him and Beasley stops playing 30+ minutes per game, I'm not convinced that it's going to happen. True. I'm just going by what he said. It seems like a no-brainer, so we can certainly hope it happens. The Wolves are so much more fun to watch when B-Easy isn't slowing things down! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (SoxAce @ Jan 10, 2012 -> 10:17 AM) Jesus.. if the eye test wasn't enough, I think only Wade came the closest to him from whom I've watched in the NBA. Check out Synergy Sports. Great tool. He took 32 half court heaves last year and made... 1. I wish I hadn't forgot my f***ing username and password for that s***. True shooting % helps, but even that can be a bit off. Luckily I saved that small stat on my notepad. EDIT: some guy on realgm posted something similar (can't read it from this computer). I'm also positive Wade was second going off memory. http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic....19&start=15 This certainly adds another thing to consider, and it is interesting to see the difference in his overall percentage when factoring his buzzer beaters/heaves in. However, I'm not completely sold that you can just discount them without a second thought. I feel like you'd have to look at the tape for each of them to really decide how it applies, as I'm sure there were instances of him getting the ball with 10 on the clock and just settling for a three instead of attempting to drive. I'd also be interested in seeing the league numbers on those shots. Edited January 10, 2012 by Felix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 QUOTE (SoxAce @ Jan 10, 2012 -> 09:39 AM) Correct. And he really shouldn't have taken alot of those cause of the injury. And people look at his shooting when he had by far the most heaved shots from half court at buzzer beaters in the league. He simply doesn't care about his stats. Of his shots last night, one was a half court shot, and one was to beat the shot clock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexSoxFan#1 Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jan 10, 2012 -> 10:10 AM) Did he deserve it? Of course. He was the best player on a team that shocked everybody and won 62 games. But the fact is he's the least efficient MVP winner since the days of the "great" Bill Russell. That will not suffice in today's NBA. When was the last time a champion's best player was a sub 45% shooter? Not gonna get into your "Bill Russell sucks" argument but you make a good point on Rose, he does shoot too many 3s sometimes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 QUOTE (sircaffey @ Jan 10, 2012 -> 10:40 AM) Your stats back up his claim. Since Rose has developed a 3 PT game, he's getting more shots within 9 feet. You don't really expect any player to shoot much higher than 55% within 9 feet do you? Especially a guy who is 6"3" tops Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sircaffey Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 QUOTE (Felix @ Jan 10, 2012 -> 10:45 AM) He's getting more shots, but he hasn't been making a higher percentage of those shots, which you would expect if the lane was opening up. No, you shouldn't be expecting that. The lane itself isn't opening up. What his 3 PT shot does is allow him to beat HIS man. That doesn't change the fact that there are 7 footers manning the paint. The point is he's getting an increased number of higher percentage shotsbecause of his 3 PT shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 10, 2012 -> 10:54 AM) Of his shots last night, one was a half court shot, and one was to beat the shot clock. This is where the eye test comes in... I watch 98% of Bulls basketball minutes, and I cannot recall thinking "what a f***ing terrible 3 point shot by Derrick Rose there!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thxfrthmmrs Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 QUOTE (Felix @ Jan 10, 2012 -> 10:45 AM) He's getting more shots, but he hasn't been making a higher percentage of those shots, which you would expect if the lane was opening up. Add in the fact that there are players like Dwayne Wade, who takes a token three pointer here and there to keep the defense honest, but still gets to the rim/paint at ease, and I'm not buying the argument that taking 5 threes a game at a low clip will positively impact your game. That is an excellent stat you brought up Felix. He's getting more shots from short distance, but the frequency of his attempts from those area has actually fallen because he's taking more shots in general since his rookie season. So adding the three point shot to his arsenal has not prompt to take a higher percentage of his shots in the paint, nor has it help him convert those shots at a higher percentage. Serious, Derrick has been a very efficient player this season outside of his erratic three point shots and turnovers (he will always have a high rate). He is shooting 51% in 2 point field goals, 90% from the line, and he's getting 0.59 FT attempts per 2 point FG attempt. Those are career highs for him. He needs to take the shot for people to respect him, but 2 or 3 a game would be suffice. It has been either three pointers or drives to basket this season, with nothing in between. He needs to accept the fact that he will never be a great three point shooter, and work on his mid range game, which looks pretty good so far this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 QUOTE (Felix @ Jan 10, 2012 -> 10:50 AM) This certainly adds another thing to consider, and it is interesting to see the difference in his overall percentage when factoring his buzzer beaters/heaves in. However, I'm not completely sold that you can just discount them without a second thought. I feel like you'd have to look at the tape for each of them to really decide how it applies, as I'm sure there were instances of him getting the ball with 10 on the clock and just settling for a three instead of attempting to drive. I'd also be interested in seeing the league numbers on those shots. I think that's what Synergy Sports does. They have video of every play of every game and break things down for you. I'm pretty sure they classify heaves as shots from 40-50+ feet with little or no time left on the shot or game clock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thxfrthmmrs Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 QUOTE (sircaffey @ Jan 10, 2012 -> 10:57 AM) No, you shouldn't be expecting that. The lane itself isn't opening up. What his 3 PT shot does is allow him to beat HIS man. That doesn't change the fact that there are 7 footers manning the paint. The point is he's getting an increased number of higher percentage shotsbecause of his 3 PT shot. Derrick has always had the ability to get to the lane, even when he was a rookie with no three point shot. It's all on his athleticism. He is averaging about 1 more attempt from that area because he's taking more shots in general, and he is converting at a lower percentage than he did in 2009. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thxfrthmmrs Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 QUOTE (Felix @ Jan 10, 2012 -> 10:50 AM) This certainly adds another thing to consider, and it is interesting to see the difference in his overall percentage when factoring his buzzer beaters/heaves in. However, I'm not completely sold that you can just discount them without a second thought. I feel like you'd have to look at the tape for each of them to really decide how it applies, as I'm sure there were instances of him getting the ball with 10 on the clock and just settling for a three instead of attempting to drive. I'd also be interested in seeing the league numbers on those shots. He did say those 32 shots were half court heaves, and I can't count the number of times last year where he have to take a three point shot at the end of shot clock to bail his team out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 QUOTE (thxfrthmmrs @ Jan 10, 2012 -> 11:13 AM) He did say those 32 shots were half court heaves, and I can't count the number of times last year where he have to take a three point shot at the end of shot clock to bail his team out. Whoops, misread that. Thought it said heaves/buzzer beaters. Seems like it'd be fair to count those 33 as being irrelevant to his overall percentage, then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (chw42 @ Jan 10, 2012 -> 11:12 AM) I think that's what Synergy Sports does. They have video of every play of every game and break things down for you. I'm pretty sure they classify heaves as shots from 40-50+ feet with little or no time left on the shot or game clock. Pretty much. It's a great tool to use in the future. (which I'm sure Felix will use for an argument about Kevin Love ) If I wasn't so wrapped up from work (gonna get sleep now, work at 6 pm) or wasn't so lazy to register, I'd re-register. They have graphs/charts/etc.. Obviously we won't know every little detail about the game other than watching (people won't remember every play, each game for instance) but just like baseball with saber/fielding bible/etc., info like this is increasing and getting noticed. Edited January 10, 2012 by SoxAce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Jan 10, 2012 -> 10:34 AM) Heck, who was the last Big East player who actually matched the hype? Ray Allen & Allen Iverson?? Dwyane Wade? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHarris1 Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 QUOTE (knightni @ Jan 10, 2012 -> 12:11 PM) Dwyane Wade? Played in CUSA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Rose has decided he's scoring this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 QUOTE (Felix @ Jan 10, 2012 -> 07:26 PM) zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz I'm enjoying it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 QUOTE (Felix @ Jan 10, 2012 -> 07:26 PM) zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Rose wants to show you that he's better than you think he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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