chw42 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jan 13, 2012 -> 08:54 AM) Aldridge should've been an all-star last year and should be a shoe-in to make it this year. He's elevated his game considerably the last couple years. Yes, they're only a handful of "superstars" in the league. Then you've got the next tier. I think Aldridge is in that tier. And the dude just turned 26. He could get better. As far as big men go, yeah, I should've been more clear. A "big" man today is not the same as 15 years ago. Dirk is an outlier. He's one of the most unique talents to ever play the game. I don't think of him as a "big" man. I was thinking more along the lines of 6'10 and up guys. And I don't look at Kevin Durant as a "big" either. Just in case you wanted to throw him out there. Aldridge isn't a superstar. I tend to think he's a top 20 player. He might be top 5 among big men, but even then, you have Howard, Love, Gasol, Bosh, Randolph, Lopez, and Bynum as competition. Just thinking about it, he'd probably rank 4th or 5th in that list of guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Got home last night around 11 so watched third quarter of Warriors and Magic and I hate Mark Jackson for making me watch the last three mins of the third with having his guys "foul" Howard before the ball was inbounds over and over, putting him at the line. Rules need to be changed for things like that. Clearly intentional although not meant to harm. Lame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (chw42 @ Jan 13, 2012 -> 11:27 AM) Aldridge isn't a superstar. I tend to think he's a top 20 player. He might be top 5 among big men, but even then, you have Howard, Love, Gasol, Bosh, Randolph, Lopez, and Bynum as competition. Just thinking about it, he'd probably rank 4th or 5th in that list of guys. LOPEZ!?!??!?! FOR REALL!?!?!?!?!?!? LOPEZ?!?!?!? BROOK LOPEZ IS SH*T, even if we ignore his current injury. Of that list, Aldridge is probably 4th, given his knack for staying healthy... though obviously Bynum has bigger upside. Also, you neglected to put Blake on here. 1. Howard 2. P Gasol 3. Love 4. Aldridge 5. Blake 6. Bynum 7. Bosh, maybe, but f*** him then on and on and on... I bet Z-Bo fits in here when healthy. like f***in 18. B. Lopez Edited January 13, 2012 by Steve9347 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 QUOTE (chw42 @ Jan 13, 2012 -> 11:27 AM) Aldridge isn't a superstar. I tend to think he's a top 20 player. He might be top 5 among big men, but even then, you have Howard, Love, Gasol, Bosh, Randolph, Lopez, and Bynum as competition. Just thinking about it, he'd probably rank 4th or 5th in that list of guys. Howard is clearly #1. That's not up for debate. Is Love really 6'10? He doesn't look it. But yeah, I'd take him over Aldridge. Brook Lopez? No way. Until I see Bynum do it for a full season, I can't go with him. Gasol is older and has played like a b**** going back to last year. Bosh? I expected the scoring to be down. But there's no reason he shouldn't be rebounding more. Zach Randolph is just strange. He's fat and not particularly athletic. But he gets the job done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 QUOTE (Brian @ Jan 13, 2012 -> 11:35 AM) Rules need to be changed for things like that. Clearly intentional although not meant to harm. Lame. I disagree. It's a smart strategy and what smart teams should do to beat the Magic. If Dwight ever learned how to make a free throw it wouldn't happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 QUOTE (chw42 @ Jan 13, 2012 -> 11:27 AM) Aldridge isn't a superstar. I tend to think he's a top 20 player. He might be top 5 among big men, but even then, you have Howard, Love, Gasol, Bosh, Randolph, Lopez, and Bynum as competition. Just thinking about it, he'd probably rank 4th or 5th in that list of guys. The only reason Aldridge isn't a superstar is because he plays in the upper left corner of the country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jan 13, 2012 -> 11:36 AM) I disagree. It's a smart strategy and what smart teams should do to beat the Magic. If Dwight ever learned how to make a free throw it wouldn't happen. That's fine but it is clearly intentional/flagrant and should be called as such even if there is no physical harm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHarris1 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jan 13, 2012 -> 11:36 AM) I disagree. It's a smart strategy and what smart teams should do to beat the Magic. If Dwight ever learned how to make a free throw it wouldn't happen. That’s where the math begins to turn against Jackson. If Howard hits 60 percent of his free throws, as we’d expect over the long haul, the math says hack-a-Howard becomes a losing strategy. Hitting 60 percent from the line works out to 1.2 points per possession, a more efficient scoring rate than any team has every put up in a full NBA season. And that doesn’t account for the fact, noted by Voulgaris and others last night, that by hacking Howard, the Warriors basically forfeited any chance of creating their own fast-break chances out of those Orlando possessions. http://nba-point-forward.si.com/2012/01/13...s-all-to-death/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 QUOTE (Brian @ Jan 13, 2012 -> 11:37 AM) The only reason Aldridge isn't a superstar is because he plays in the upper left corner of the country. ...or the fact that he doesn't get his own shot. He's not a "superstar" by NBA standards. Is he an All-Star? Sure. Is he a star? Sure. However, you have to be exceedingly good at at least one thing to even be considered an NBA Superstar. He shoots less than 50%, can't create his own shot, doesn't snag 10 boards a game, and his blocks are sporadic at best. He's very, very good, but NBA superstar he is not... regardless of where he calls home. I'd imagine if that were criteria for making a superstar list, two players from Oklahoma City wouldn't be considered either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 QUOTE (Brian @ Jan 13, 2012 -> 11:38 AM) That's fine but it is clearly intentional/flagrant and should be called as such even if there is no physical harm. intentional fouls are perfectly allowed in the NBA and well within the rules. intentional =/= flagrant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 QUOTE (WHarris1 @ Jan 13, 2012 -> 11:38 AM) http://nba-point-forward.si.com/2012/01/13...s-all-to-death/ That there's damn interesting. Perhaps doing it in excess as Jackson did last night isn't the smartest strategy. However, it shouldn't be considered flagrant and is well-within the rules of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jan 13, 2012 -> 11:41 AM) ...or the fact that he doesn't get his own shot. He's not a "superstar" by NBA standards. Is he an All-Star? Sure. Is he a star? Sure. However, you have to be exceedingly good at at least one thing to even be considered an NBA Superstar. He shoots less than 50%, can't create his own shot, doesn't snag 10 boards a game, and his blocks are sporadic at best. He's very, very good, but NBA superstar he is not... regardless of where he calls home. I'd imagine if that were criteria for making a superstar list, two players from Oklahoma City wouldn't be considered either. He can't get his own shot? What are you talking about? His low-post game is as polished as any big outside of maybe Gasol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jan 13, 2012 -> 11:35 AM) LOPEZ!?!??!?! FOR REALL!?!?!?!?!?!? LOPEZ?!?!?!? BROOK LOPEZ IS SH*T, even if we ignore his current injury. Of that list, Aldridge is probably 4th, given his knack for staying healthy... though obviously Bynum has bigger upside. Also, you neglected to put Blake on here. 1. Howard 2. P Gasol 3. Love 4. Aldridge 5. Blake 6. Bynum 7. Bosh, maybe, but f*** him then on and on and on... I bet Z-Bo fits in here when healthy. like f***in 18. B. Lopez I forgot about Blake somehow, lol. But Lopez is not that bad. He's been a 20 PER player for the past few years. Sure his defense and rebounding are below average for a big man, but the guy is fairly efficient and can score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jan 13, 2012 -> 11:36 AM) Howard is clearly #1. That's not up for debate. Is Love really 6'10? He doesn't look it. But yeah, I'd take him over Aldridge. Brook Lopez? No way. Until I see Bynum do it for a full season, I can't go with him. Gasol is older and has played like a b**** going back to last year. Bosh? I expected the scoring to be down. But there's no reason he shouldn't be rebounding more. Zach Randolph is just strange. He's fat and not particularly athletic. But he gets the job done. Randolph is incredibly athletic for his frame. He has always had a chunk to him, but never played like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 QUOTE (Brian @ Jan 13, 2012 -> 11:35 AM) Got home last night around 11 so watched third quarter of Warriors and Magic and I hate Mark Jackson for making me watch the last three mins of the third with having his guys "foul" Howard before the ball was inbounds over and over, putting him at the line. Rules need to be changed for things like that. Clearly intentional although not meant to harm. Lame. If teams are going to put a bad free throw shooter on the floor, teams should be able to take advantage of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 QUOTE (Brian @ Jan 13, 2012 -> 11:38 AM) That's fine but it is clearly intentional/flagrant and should be called as such even if there is no physical harm. The idea of "intentional" meaning "done on purpose" has never been the applied definition intentional foul in the NBA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHarris1 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) I think Zach Randolph has a vertical leap of less than 12 inches, I am investigating, but not finding many results. Dude is very crafty on the glass though and exceptional at tipping the ball to himself. Edited January 13, 2012 by WHarris1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (WHarris1 @ Jan 13, 2012 -> 12:09 PM) I think Zach Randolph has a vertical leap of less than 12 inches, I am investigating, but not finding many results. Dude is very crafty on the glass though and exceptional at tipping the ball to himself. Zach Randolph rebounds in a similar way as Kevin Love. It's not about getting the ball when it's at it's highest point, it's about using your legs, hips and strength to get your opponent out of the way, then catching the ball on it's way down. Love is probably the best in the NBA in getting in position to make a rebound and if you watch him consistently, his rebounds in traffic usually involve either tipping it to himself or grabbing it without actually jumping. Love will also always lock arms with the opponent which causes it to look as if they're fouling him, which the refs have somehow yet to notice but routinely call on the other player. I haven't watch Z-Bo as much as some, but he seems to be in the same school of rebounding. It's more about brute strength and positioning than actually jumping to the highest possible point. For this reason, he always gives Love fits on the glass. He's one of the toughest matchups in the league for Love when it comes to glass cleaning. As far as the top 10 lists go, I'm not sure I'd put Love in there. He's definitely top 15, but his inability to create his own shot (and his lack of a great post game) really holds him back. I wouldn't be surprised if he shows up next year with a highly refined post game, though. He's made significant offseason improvements to his game every year since entering the league. Edited January 13, 2012 by Felix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 QUOTE (WHarris1 @ Jan 13, 2012 -> 11:38 AM) http://nba-point-forward.si.com/2012/01/13...s-all-to-death/ This doesn't seem to account for the possibility of offensive rebounds, either... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexSoxFan#1 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 QUOTE (Felix @ Jan 13, 2012 -> 01:05 PM) Zach Randolph rebounds in a similar way as Kevin Love. It's not about getting the ball when it's at it's highest point, it's about using your legs, hips and strength to get your opponent out of the way, then catching the ball on it's way down. Love is probably the best in the NBA in getting in position to make a rebound and if you watch him consistently, his rebounds in traffic usually involve either tipping it to himself or grabbing it without actually jumping. Love will also always lock arms with the opponent which causes it to look as if they're fouling him, which the refs have somehow yet to notice but routinely call on the other player. I haven't watch Z-Bo as much as some, but he seems to be in the same school of rebounding. It's more about brute strength and positioning than actually jumping to the highest possible point. For this reason, he always gives Love fits on the glass. He's one of the toughest matchups in the league for Love when it comes to glass cleaning. As far as the top 10 lists go, I'm not sure I'd put Love in there. He's definitely top 15, but his inability to create his own shot (and his lack of a great post game) really holds him back. I wouldn't be surprised if he shows up next year with a highly refined post game, though. He's made significant offseason improvements to his game every year since entering the league. Felix, who would be in your top 10 NBA players list? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 QUOTE (MexSoxFan#1 @ Jan 13, 2012 -> 01:33 PM) Felix, who would be in your top 10 NBA players list? 1. Derrick Rose 2. Derrick Rose 3. Omer Asik 4. Derrick Rose 5. Derrick Rose 6. Derrick Rose 7. Derrick Rose 8. Derrick Rose 9. Derrick Rose 10. Luol Deng Even in top 10 lists, Luol Deng is underrated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexSoxFan#1 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 QUOTE (MexSoxFan#1 @ Jan 13, 2012 -> 10:26 AM) Don't know if anyone saw it but ESPN's Ric Bucher came out with his top 7 NBA players list and it goes like this... 1.Kobe Bryant 2.Derrick Rose 3.LeBron James 4.Dwight Howard 5.Dwyane Wade 6.Dirk Nowitzki 7.Russell Westbrook Personally I think his list is crazy, (Westbrook, really?) mine would go like this... 1.LBJ (really, there shouldn't be a debate about #1) 2.Kobe (I'll give the old guy the nod at 2) 3.Durant (not even in Bucher's top 7 list, which is insane) 4.Howard (the best big man in the game has to be in the top 5) 5.Rose (the way he's improving each year, he'll be top 3 very soon) 6.Wade (yup, I think Rose is better than Wade now) 7.Paul (not the player he was a few years ago but still one of the best) and to round out the 8-10 spots in my opinion... 8.Carmelo Anthony (acoring machine but a big minus on D) 9.Russell Westbrook (my beef with him is that he takes too many shots away from KD) 10.Deron Williams (I won't hold it against him that he has garbage to play with) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I think the article on purposeful fouling could have basically been condensed to a few sentences. Basically Mark Jackson just needed to change his strategy, only foul Dwight purposefully when he gets the ball and would have a good chance to score. Dont purposefully foul just to do it, because over the long run you will likely lose if you foul every possession and the player shoots 60% from the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexSoxFan#1 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 QUOTE (Felix @ Jan 13, 2012 -> 01:37 PM) 1. Derrick Rose 2. Derrick Rose 3. Omer Asik 4. Derrick Rose 5. Derrick Rose 6. Derrick Rose 7. Derrick Rose 8. Derrick Rose 9. Derrick Rose 10. Luol Deng Even in top 10 lists, Luol Deng is underrated. Aw, come on dude, you're not gonna get flamed for not putting DRose at #1 At least not by me, I have Rose at #5 while most lists I've seen by NBA analysts on the net have him near the top... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 QUOTE (MexSoxFan#1 @ Jan 13, 2012 -> 01:44 PM) and to round out the 8-10 spots in my opinion... 8.Carmelo Anthony (acoring machine but a big minus on D) 9.Russell Westbrook (my beef with him is that he takes too many shots away from KD) 10.Deron Williams (I won't hold it against him that he has garbage to play with) KD has won the last two scoring titles. How many more shots is he supposed to take? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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