2011-2012 NBA Season Thread

[kjshoe04]

That's false. I have no clue who perpetrated that myth. That's almost as bad as Gerald Wilkins somehow getting a "Jordan stopper" reputation back in the early 90's.

You can see all of their head to head matchups here. Wade averages a little more than 21 a game vs. Rip as opposed to over 25 a game in his career.

[Soxbadger]

Balta,

 

That stat is so meaningless.

 

What are Boston/Piston pace statistics, do they play as quick as other teams? Do they overall keep opponents to lower points?

 

SS2k,

 

Oh come on, that is ridiculous. Nothing that Balta posted conclusively shows that it was Hamilton or Allen even predominantly guarding Wade. For all we know 70% of the time Rondo was on Wade.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Poor J4L. The NBA thread has not been kind.

 

GMAB. The Heat were a Wade injury away from consecutive finals appearances in '05 and '06. He skull-f***ed the Pistons when healthy.

[Jordan4life_2007]

You can see all of their head to head matchups here. Wade averages a little more than 21 a game vs. Rip as opposed to over 25 a game in his career.

 

Yeah, that proves, like, nothing.

[Jenksismyhero]

You guys have a ton of faith in Butler, I like him, I just am not going to put my Championship hopes on a rookie who primarily played forward in college.

 

As for Hamilton/Allen, dont like either of them on Wade, I prefer Brewer.

 

I just dont see why the Bulls would need to trade Brewer.

 

+1.

 

 

[southsider2k5]

Balta,

 

That stat is so meaningless.

 

What are Boston/Piston pace statistics, do they play as quick as other teams? Do they overall keep opponents to lower points?

 

SS2k,

 

Oh come on, that is ridiculous. Nothing that Balta posted conclusively shows that it was Hamilton or Allen even predominantly guarding Wade. For all we know 70% of the time Rondo was on Wade.

 

Rondo on Wade? LMFAO.

[southsider2k5]

You can see all of their head to head matchups here. Wade averages a little more than 21 a game vs. Rip as opposed to over 25 a game in his career.

 

And there you go. 20% lower.

[Balta1701]

Balta,

 

That stat is so meaningless.

 

What are Boston/Piston pace statistics, do they play as quick as other teams? Do they overall keep opponents to lower points?

You're asking if 2 of the best defensive teams of the last decade and the 2 teams I can think of who won titles while being dominant on the defensive side of the ball keep opponents to lower points?

[Jordan4life_2007]

Now all I gotta do is go to bballreference and find one player in which Rose's PPG total is lower than his career average and I can dub him a Rose stopper. Please.

[Balta1701]

Now all I gotta do is go to bballreference and find one player in which Rose's PPG total is lower than his career average and I can dub him a Rose stopper. Please.

Golden State.

[Balta1701]

Now all I gotta do is go to bballreference and find one player in which Rose's PPG total is lower than his career average and I can dub him a Rose stopper. Please.

So, you're the one who said that Hamilton was definitely not a Wade Stopper. So far, the only stats presented in support of this argument suggest that his scoring has definitely dropped against the Pistons. How about you give a stat that supports your argument?

[Jordan4life_2007]

So, you're the one who said that Hamilton was definitely not a Wade Stopper. So far, the only stats presented in support of this argument suggest that his scoring has definitely dropped against the Pistons. How about you give a stat that supports your argument?

 

The '06 eastern conference finals. The end.

[southsider2k5]

The '06 eastern conference finals. The end.

 

That sounds suspiciously like "the eye test".

[Soxbadger]

Ive had disagreements with J4L, but you guys really are using meaningless stats here to try and argue.

 

Did you know Hamilton is a Lebron stopper?

 

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-i...mp;p2=hamilri01

 

Lebron only scored 23.6 per game against Hamilton.

 

What about Kobe, did you know Hamilton stops him too?

 

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-i...mp;p2=hamilri01

 

And Yao:

 

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-i...mp;p2=hamilri01

 

So what is more likely, Hamilton is secretly one of the top defenders, or he played on a good defensive team that held players below their average?

 

 

[Balta1701]

So what is more likely, Hamilton is secretly one of the top defenders, or he played on a good defensive team that held players below their average?

Of course, clearly "playing on a good defensive team" can't have anything to do with that player in particular, right? After all, he was obviously the weak link, look how much shooting guards went off on him.

[Soxbadger]

Youve yet to prove that Hamilton guarded any of these players.

[whitesoxfan99]

Ive had disagreements with J4L, but you guys really are using meaningless stats here to try and argue.

 

Did you know Hamilton is a Lebron stopper?

 

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-i...mp;p2=hamilri01

 

Lebron only scored 23.6 per game against Hamilton.

 

What about Kobe, did you know Hamilton stops him too?

 

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-i...mp;p2=hamilri01

 

And Yao:

 

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-i...mp;p2=hamilri01

 

So what is more likely, Hamilton is secretly one of the top defenders, or he played on a good defensive team that held players below their average?

 

Not to mention that Tayshaun Prince would generally get the defensive assignment on the opposing teams top perimeter scorer. I know he was the one guarding LeBron and Kobe and I'm sure he saw a lot of time on Wade as well.

[southsider2k5]

Of course, clearly "playing on a good defensive team" can't have anything to do with that player in particular, right? After all, he was obviously the weak link, look how much shooting guards went off on him.

 

And of course we should discount all of that because he is clearly playing on a horrible defensive team now.

[southsider2k5]

Youve yet to prove that Hamilton guarded any of these players.

 

I would say the burden of proof is yours. There are plenty of stories about Hamilton shutting down Wade, and not the other way around. I'd say the people who are saying it isn't true owe the work here.

[Soxbadger]

lol

 

I have no position in the argument, Hamilton may or may not be a good defender, I dont think hes as good as Brewer, no one has yet to argue that Hamilton is better than Brewer.

 

My argument was that the statistics you were relying on are faulty and acting like they answer the question of whether Rip can guard isnt really true.

Edited January 19, 2012 by Soxbadger

[Quin]

Our championship hopes shouldn't be rested on Brewers shoulders.

[southsider2k5]

lol

 

I have no position in the argument, Hamilton may or may not be a good defender, I dont think hes as good as Brewer, no one has yet to argue that Hamilton is better than Brewer.

 

My argument was that the statistics you were relying on are faulty and acting like they answer the question of whether Rip can guard isnt really true.

 

The argument is awful. There is the anecdotal evidence of multiple writers and the statistics back it up. Unless someone has actual evidence, the only thing faulty here is people's memories.

[Balta1701]

The argument is awful. There is the anecdotal evidence of multiple writers and the statistics back it up. Unless someone has actual evidence, the only thing faulty here is people's memories.

You've actually got 2k5 and I on the same side here.

 

If Wade's career average was 5 points higher against the Pistons, that'd be solid evidence that Hamilton isn't slowing him down and even that the rest of Detroit's defense was the strong spot so they needed to rely on Wade more.

 

It's not a perfect statistic, but it's a good first glance test. I'm awaiting more details from someone to tell me why that statistic is wrong.

[Soxbadger]

Well I think that relying on first person evidence (Ive watched them play) is better than relying on third party (some one else watched them play), so I dont see how its faulty memories or anything else, its called a difference of opinion.

 

Some people think hes good, some people dont.

 

I personally think Brewer is one of the best defenders on the Bulls and Id rather not give him up if there is a different way to acquire talent.

[whitesoxfan99]

The argument is awful. There is the anecdotal evidence of multiple writers and the statistics back it up. Unless someone has actual evidence, the only thing faulty here is people's memories.

 

A quick review of those statistics shows that his shooting% and efficiency against the Pistons isn't out of line with his career numbers. So it is entirely possible if not likely that the drop in scoring is related more to the pace of the game than having a "Wade stopper" particularly since Detroit was always one of the teams with the fewest possessions per game in the NBA.