Jordan4life_2007 Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Feb 23, 2012 -> 10:54 AM) See but the difference this year was that Rose still scored in the 4th quarter. He actually brought them back into the game and could have easily won it with the FT's. And shoot, they STILL could have won it if not for the botched call at the end which gave the Heat an extra possession. And J4L, it wasn't some meaningless January game. It was playoff atmosphere. It was two teams that were hungry for a win for bragging rights to the rest of the league. I'd agree with you that it means nothing if it were any other team, but Miami is different. I think at worst they're evenly matched or Miami has a slight advantage. Either way, clearly it's dumb to say that there's "no debate." There is no debate. On offense, the Heat lead the league in PPG, FG%, 3PT%. On defense, they rank 5th in FG% and third in turnovers forced. They also lead the league in SRS (simple rating system), which measures point differential with strength of schedule. Stop with that regular season game. The Bulls were 3-0 against the Heat last year. You can play the injury card a little. I don't want to hear anything about rip. He's played in 67, 46, and 55 games the last three years. So him playing in, like, 10 games this year is no surprise at all. The Bulls are the same team they were last year. That's not a bad thing. It's just that the Heat are better and deeper than they were last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 23, 2012 -> 11:12 AM) But the time Rose was scoring was before they put LBJ on him. ESPN's shot chart of the game isn't loading for me, but I don't recall that being the case. Rose was still getting to the line a bunch in the 4th. In fact, I remember a pretty good crossover he got on Lebron in the 4th. He scored 38 for the game, I can't imagine all that came in 3 quarters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Feb 23, 2012 -> 11:20 AM) There is no debate. On offense, the Heat lead the league in PPG, FG%, 3PT%. On defense, they rank 5th in FG% and third in turnovers forced. They also lead the league in SRS (simple rating system), which measures point differential with strength of schedule. Stop with that regular season game. The Bulls were 3-0 against the Heat last year. You can play the injury card a little. I don't want to hear anything about rip. He's played in 67, 46, and 55 games the last three years. So him playing in, like, 10 games this year is no surprise at all. The Bulls are the same team they were last year. That's not a bad thing. It's just that the Heat are better and deeper than they were last year. Stop it with your "Stop it"s. You dont want to hear anything that in any way disagrees with how you see the NBA unfolding. You said the Heat would win last year, Dallas had no shot, a 1 superstar team will never win, knicks will be the 2nd best in the east. You also just in the past two weeks opined on how nobody can stop the heat, and then how nobody can stop the Thunder. So if these two unmovable forces(per J4L) meet in a game, who shall win? I dont think either will. Stop it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Feb 23, 2012 -> 11:20 AM) There is no debate. On offense, the Heat lead the league in PPG, FG%, 3PT%. On defense, they rank 5th in FG% and third in turnovers forced. They also lead the league in SRS (simple rating system), which measures point differential with strength of schedule. Stop with that regular season game. The Bulls were 3-0 against the Heat last year. You can play the injury card a little. I don't want to hear anything about rip. He's played in 67, 46, and 55 games the last three years. So him playing in, like, 10 games this year is no surprise at all. The Bulls are the same team they were last year. That's not a bad thing. It's just that the Heat are better and deeper than they were last year. Even the players acknowledge the January 2012 game wasn't just another game. You're ignoring the obvious. That was a statement game both teams wanted. It ended up being pretty much even despite the Bulls being on the road without Deng and a legit NBA back up point guard. Save me your useless statistics half way through a season where the schedule has been incredibly lopsided. The Bulls have played 20 road games, which is the most in the eastern conference. They're a half game behind the "undebatable best team in the league" despite the starting rotation expected to be in place by the playoffs having played a whopping 5 games together. I have no problem with you saying the Heat are the better team and here's why. But to say it's not up for debate is idiotic. Hell, I think the Thunder have pretty good argument for being the best too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daa84 Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 (edited) Im gonna go with J4L in this one....IMO the heat are better than the bulls doesn't mean bulls can't beat the heat though, but right now if bulls fans could magically swap the teams jerseys (without any emotion/nostalgia/geography attached) i suspect most would objectively take the heat edit: and you can't take 1 game snippets as proof of any 1 team being better or about as good as another. In that case the nets would have been better than the bulls and 20 pts better than the knicks recently. Edited February 23, 2012 by daa84 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 QUOTE (daa84 @ Feb 23, 2012 -> 11:36 AM) Im gonna go with J4L in this one....IMO the heat are better than the bulls doesn't mean bulls can't beat the heat though, but right now if bulls fans could magically swap the teams jerseys (without any emotion/nostalgia/geography attached) i suspect most would objectively take the heat edit: and you can't take 1 game snippets as proof of any 1 team being better or about as good as another. In that case the nets would have been better than the bulls and 20 pts better than the knicks recently. I dont disagree that the Heat are better than the Bulls. I disagree wholeheartedly that the Bulls have no shot at beating the Heat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Feb 23, 2012 -> 11:30 AM) Even the players acknowledge the January 2012 game wasn't just another game. You're ignoring the obvious. That was a statement game both teams wanted. It ended up being pretty much even despite the Bulls being on the road without Deng and a legit NBA back up point guard. Save me your useless statistics half way through a season where the schedule has been incredibly lopsided. The Bulls have played 20 road games, which is the most in the eastern conference. They're a half game behind the "undebatable best team in the league" despite the starting rotation expected to be in place by the playoffs having played a whopping 5 games together. I have no problem with you saying the Heat are the better team and here's why. But to say it's not up for debate is idiotic. Hell, I think the Thunder have pretty good argument for being the best too. They also have played 22 games vs. teams below .500, most in all of basketball, with only 13 games vs. teams at .500 or higher, tied for fewest in the NBA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Feb 23, 2012 -> 11:27 AM) Stop it with your "Stop it"s. You dont want to hear anything that in any way disagrees with how you see the NBA unfolding. You said the Heat would win last year, Dallas had no shot, a 1 superstar team will never win, knicks will be the 2nd best in the east. You also just in the past two weeks opined on how nobody can stop the heat, and then how nobody can stop the Thunder. So if these two unmovable forces(per J4L) meet in a game, who shall win? I dont think either will. Stop it Again, stop it. I've never once said that the Heat were a lock to win the title. I said before the season they were the best team in the east and I feel even more confident in that assertion now that we have a little more than half a season of data to work with. I never said the Thunder were the best team or that they couldn't be stopped. I said they were more complete, as in they don't have a clear discernible weakness (i.e. a scrub like Joel Anthony starting). Nothing unreasonable so far. Yawnnnn@the Knicks. I've long admitted that I was wrong there. Are you seriously still yappin' about last year? Pull up last year's NBA thread and give me the list of posters who picked Dallas. Then find the part of the thread where the Heat were up 15 in the 4th quarter in game 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Feb 23, 2012 -> 11:44 AM) Again, stop it. I've never once said that the Heat were a lock to win the title. I said before the season they were the best team in the east and I feel even more confident in that assertion now that we have a little more than half a season of data to work with. I never said the Thunder were the best team or that they couldn't be stopped. I said they were more complete, as in they don't have a clear discernible weakness (i.e. a scrub like Joel Anthony starting). Nothing unreasonable so far. Yawnnnn@the Knicks. I've long admitted that I was wrong there. Are you seriously still yappin' about last year? Pull up last year's NBA thread and give me the list of posters who picked Dallas. Then find the part of the thread where the Heat were up 15 in the 4th quarter in game 2. All im saying, is your way of speaking in absolutes catches you EVERY time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Feb 23, 2012 -> 11:46 AM) All im saying, is your way of speaking in absolutes catches you EVERY time. Technically speaking, I never actually said the Bulls couldn't beat the Heat. Though that was implied. I have a very difficult time coming up with a scenario (outside of a Wade injury or something) in which the Bulls can beat them 4 times. Nobody else has come up with anything either outside of "wait until the Bulls are healthy." That might not come this year. Especially Hamilton. I'm assuming they'll be less off days for the post-season this year. Can his body hold up in the playoffs? The easy answer right now is no. Edited February 23, 2012 by Jordan4life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Feb 23, 2012 -> 11:58 AM) Technically speaking, I never actually said the Bulls couldn't beat the Heat. Though that was implied. I have a very difficult time coming up with a scenario (outside of a Wade injury or something) in which the Bulls can beat them 4 times. Nobody else has come up with anything either outside of "wait until the Bulls are healthy." That might not come this year. Especially Hamilton. I'm assuming they'll be less off days for the post-season this year. Can his body hold up in the playoffs? The easy answer right now is no. The Heat are the best team in the east. It's not really up for debate. The second part is your problem. The first part would have been acceptable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Feb 23, 2012 -> 12:01 PM) The second part is your problem. The first part would have been acceptable. Well, what is the counter-argument? Could something change between now and the playoffs? I suppose. But I feel confident when I say it's going to be Bulls/Heat in the conference finals, as nobody else is even worth talking about. You guys are getting on me for talking in "absolutes" or whatever. Instead of doing that, present why you believe the Bulls are in better shape to beat the Heat this year than they were last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Feb 23, 2012 -> 11:27 AM) Stop it with your "Stop it"s. You dont want to hear anything that in any way disagrees with how you see the NBA unfolding. You said the Heat would win last year, Dallas had no shot, a 1 superstar team will never win, knicks will be the 2nd best in the east. You also just in the past two weeks opined on how nobody can stop the heat, and then how nobody can stop the Thunder. So if these two unmovable forces(per J4L) meet in a game, who shall win? I dont think either will. Stop it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 23, 2012 -> 12:11 PM) lol. "the only thing Michael is better than Wade at are dunks and blocks." I ain't takin' nothin' from you. I'll let the others have their fun with the Knicks crap. But you're done. No amount of alcohol in the world could make me that delusional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Feb 23, 2012 -> 12:14 PM) lol. "the only thing Michael is better than Wade at are dunks and blocks." I ain't takin' nothin' from you. I'll let the others have their fun with the Knicks crap. But you're done. No amount of alcohol in the world could make me that delusional. Don't worry, you'll say it tomorrow, and then say the opposite the day after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Feb 23, 2012 -> 11:27 AM) Stop it with your "Stop it"s. You dont want to hear anything that in any way disagrees with how you see the NBA unfolding. You said the Heat would win last year, Dallas had no shot, a 1 superstar team will never win, knicks will be the 2nd best in the east. You also just in the past two weeks opined on how nobody can stop the heat, and then how nobody can stop the Thunder. So if these two unmovable forces(per J4L) meet in a game, who shall win? I dont think either will. Stop it STOP IT! http://www.nba.com/bulls/stacey-king-soundboard.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Derrick Rose denied rumors that he requested the Bulls make a play to trade for Pau Gasol. "It was all false and that's something I'll never do," Rose said. "I'm good with teammates that I have." God, I love this kid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Feb 23, 2012 -> 12:10 PM) Well, what is the counter-argument? Could something change between now and the playoffs? I suppose. But I feel confident when I say it's going to be Bulls/Heat in the conference finals, as nobody else is even worth talking about. You guys are getting on me for talking in "absolutes" or whatever. Instead of doing that, present why you believe the Bulls are in better shape to beat the Heat this year than they were last year. I've already explained why. They're just as good as last year, they've played equal to the Heat in their one meeting even with some adversity, and they still have Hamilton for the playoff run. I told you I don't have a problem if you think the Heat are better. I would agree with you. But it's debatable and it's certainly not a guarantee that they are or will be by the end of the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Bulls will beat the Heat definitively if Noah and Boozer continue to click and Rip gets healthy. Like, we gonna see LeBron go... "Man, no one said it was gon' be easy. We had to fight off the Knicks, 76ers, and the Bulls. That's a tough road to overcome for any team and we just happened to get tired. Y'all just making us seem like we're worse, but it ain't easy down here and you all will have to go on with your lives." Then the next week... HEADLINE: LeBron back to Cavs in 2013? Disgruntled star reportedly wants to team with rising star Irving to win a ring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Feb 23, 2012 -> 12:21 PM) ESPN's shot chart of the game isn't loading for me, but I don't recall that being the case. Rose was still getting to the line a bunch in the 4th. In fact, I remember a pretty good crossover he got on Lebron in the 4th. He scored 38 for the game, I can't imagine all that came in 3 quarters. Rose was a beast in the 4th quarter, that got the bulls back to nearly tied, but the last 3-4 minutes they put LBJ on him, and that's what did it. Lebron was on the bench to start the 4th when the Bulls made their run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 23, 2012 -> 02:12 PM) Rose was a beast in the 4th quarter, that got the bulls back to nearly tied, but the last 3-4 minutes they put LBJ on him, and that's what did it. Lebron was on the bench to start the 4th when the Bulls made their run. I mean, come on, he's a dude who is as fast as Rose but 6 inches taller and probably has at least 50 pounds on Rose. That makes s*** rough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Feb 23, 2012 -> 02:14 PM) I mean, come on, he's a dude who is as fast as Rose but 6 inches taller and probably has at least 50 pounds on Rose. That makes s*** rough. LeBron should be able to shut down Rose. What the Bulls have to do is make an adjustment and have whoever Chalmers is guarding beat them. That is where Hamilton comes in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexSoxFan#1 Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Feb 23, 2012 -> 02:14 PM) I mean, come on, he's a dude who is as fast as Rose but 6 inches taller and probably has at least 50 pounds on Rose. That makes s*** rough. The others guys need to step up when DRose draws LBJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexSoxFan#1 Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 23, 2012 -> 02:18 PM) LeBron should be able to shut down Rose. What the Bulls have to do is make an adjustment and have whoever Chalmers is guarding beat them. That is where Hamilton comes in. Chalmers is not a bad defender but they can go Wade, LBJ and Battier on the floor to protect the perrimeter...this is where having a low post player would've helped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 23, 2012 -> 02:18 PM) LeBron should be able to shut down Rose. What the Bulls have to do is make an adjustment and have whoever Chalmers is guarding beat them. That is where Hamilton comes in. Yeah. With Rip and Deng healthy, it becomes a lot harder to just tell BronBron "go stop Rose" when Rip and Deng can shoot over Chalmers. Then a trap? Well... Noah can make plays with his passes to one of Rip, Booz, or Deng who would be open. All them can hit the mid-range shot. Deng can get to the hoop. Noah can get putbacks. Sometimes Boozer is a low-post guy. That's not even counting having CJ or Korver in for the 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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