Steve9347 Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 I know the deal will never happen, but good luck scoring in the paint against Noah and KG, Heat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 One thing I would say about the Dwight rumors. If the Bulls could get him while keeping Noah - ie, only giving up Boozer, Deng, and some other s***, I say f***ing roll the dice and worst-case you got Boozer's contracts off the books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Mar 12, 2012 -> 01:54 PM) Pretty well-respected poster at RealGM spraying to all fields re: Bulls. Like I said, spraying to all fields. At least the Bulls don't seem content. I'd imagine these injuries might force their hands into something. To add more fuel to this fire, Jim Paxson (not a typo, he's a Bulls' consultant) was at the Lakers/Celtics game yesterday. http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=6rh7zrc Rose, Watson Hamilton, Brewer Pierce, Brewer Garnett, Gibson Noah, Gibson Scalabrine Butler Lucas That's a really interesting 8 man rotation. Paul Pierce's 13/14 is not guaranteed. Obviously, that monster KG deal coming off the books is rather attractive. So are the Bulls doing this because they than have enough cap room in the off-season to make another move? Would they have that kind of cap room? As is, seems like a deal I wouldn't want to make. Deng long term is better than Pierce and Boozer/Garnett are pretty equal given Garnett's age. I see no reason why I make this deal if I'm Chicago (is there something I'm missing)? Defensively Bulls are better in the paint with KG vs. Boozer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Mar 12, 2012 -> 04:08 PM) One thing I would say about the Dwight rumors. If the Bulls could get him while keeping Noah - ie, only giving up Boozer, Deng, and some other s***, I say f***ing roll the dice and worst-case you got Boozer's contracts off the books. +1 at the very least after this season Garpax would have some money to play with if they would have to rebuild around Rose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 The underlying point of the deal would be to get out of Boozer/Deng's contract at the price of Pierce's. I think the Bulls FO have realized that they dont need to pay that type of money to Boozer/Deng to be competitive. Also Boozer's value should be very little, so if you can get anything for him, always good idea. Only Deng really is a concern, and SF is one of the deepest positions and you can get a guy at the fraction of the price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Mar 12, 2012 -> 02:16 PM) The underlying point of the deal would be to get out of Boozer/Deng's contract at the price of Pierce's. I think the Bulls FO have realized that they dont need to pay that type of money to Boozer/Deng to be competitive. Also Boozer's value should be very little, so if you can get anything for him, always good idea. Only Deng really is a concern, and SF is one of the deepest positions and you can get a guy at the fraction of the price. Deng is a pretty darn good player. His contract is not an albatross. Seems to me that the Bulls get older and are banking on hope of getting other guys in the future. I really really don't like the idea of this trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Mar 12, 2012 -> 04:18 PM) Deng is a pretty darn good player. His contract is not an albatross. I think Deng went from being abhored for his contract to being appreciated a little swiftly. I love the guy, but he's still no Paul Pierce even at this advanced age. That being said, who knows what will happen come Thursday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Mar 12, 2012 -> 02:20 PM) I think Deng went from being abhored for his contract to being appreciated a little swiftly. I love the guy, but he's still no Paul Pierce even at this advanced age. That being said, who knows what will happen come Thursday. Pierce is better. But how much...very little and he won't be better that much longer. I also don't think the difference between Pierce/Garnett & Deng/Boozer makes the Bulls a championship team. And long term it makes us worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Well you have to give something to get something. Do I think Pierce/Garnett make the Bulls better today, yes. Would losing Deng hurt in the future, yes. Do I think its reasonable to believe that the Bulls can replace Deng, yes. Deng is solid, I just think he needs to be more to be worth the value of his contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 What kind of salary would have to be traded for the Bulls to get Monta Ellis? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 You guys are pretty crazy when you think it is easy to replace Deng. Sure, it is easy to replace a guy like that when you have cap room or lots of draft picks. The Bulls don't have either. This would be a ridiculously short sited trade and it is the exact reason it won't happen. Heck, I could make an argument that the Bulls are better pre-deal this year than pots-deal (well if Deng was 100%). That is because Garnett is a walking liability (dude could go down with another injury at any point). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Mar 12, 2012 -> 05:09 PM) You guys are pretty crazy when you think it is easy to replace Deng. Sure, it is easy to replace a guy like that when you have cap room or lots of draft picks. The Bulls don't have either. This would be a ridiculously short sited trade and it is the exact reason it won't happen. Heck, I could make an argument that the Bulls are better pre-deal this year than pots-deal (well if Deng was 100%). That is because Garnett is a walking liability (dude could go down with another injury at any point). You are replacing Deng with Pierce, and a oft injured Boozer for an oft injured Garnett. Really, it seems like a wash. Plus, Garnett expires. I know Boozer has been healthy all season, but come on, this is the exception not the rule Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Mar 12, 2012 -> 03:13 PM) You are replacing Deng with Pierce, and a oft injured Boozer for an oft injured Garnett. Really, it seems like a wash. Plus, Garnett expires. I know Boozer has been healthy all season, but come on, this is the exception not the rule I realize Booze had some troubles but he isn't nearly as broken down as Garnett. KG has came on strong as of late (now that he's playing more center) but for most of the year he hasn't been that good. Have you guys watched many of Boston's games. There is a reason they are pretty mediocre. I don't think adding there 2nd and 4th best players in place of our 2nd and 3rd best players makes us a better team. I have Rondo as there best player and Allen as the 3rd best player. For the Bulls, I could see someone making the argument that Noah is better than Boozer (and I'm probably 50/50 on that depending on which Joakim shows up). Either way, I personally believe Rondo to be the best player on the Celtics. If there was a guy I'd want on Boston, it would be Ray Allen. Tremendous fit, but I certainly wouldn't give up Deng to get him. Add Allen without subtracting much of the main core and the Bulls might just be the best team in the NBA. Note: From a PPG standpoint (KG vs. Boozer), Bulls lose a little in points, lose a little in rebounds, gain in defense. The difference between Deng/Pierce in PPG is a slight difference in favor of Pierce as well (very minimal). Pierce at 18PPG or so over the past 3 years; Deng around 17PPG (a little lower this year, but that is primarily a result of his injury). Deng also shoots a higher FG percentage, although Deng's current year FG% is terrible as a result of his injury (down around 41%). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Mar 12, 2012 -> 05:20 PM) I realize Booze had some troubles but he isn't nearly as broken down as Garnett. KG has came on strong as of late (now that he's playing more center) but for most of the year he hasn't been that good. Have you guys watched many of Boston's games. There is a reason they are pretty mediocre. I don't think adding there 2nd and 4th best players in place of our 2nd and 3rd best players makes us a better team. I have Rondo as there best player and Allen as the 3rd best player. For the Bulls, I could see someone making the argument that Noah is better than Boozer (and I'm probably 50/50 on that depending on which Joakim shows up). Either way, I personally believe Rondo to be the best player on the Celtics. If there was a guy I'd want on Boston, it would be Ray Allen. Tremendous fit, but I certainly wouldn't give up Deng to get him. Add Allen without subtracting much of the main core and the Bulls might just be the best team in the NBA. Note: From a PPG standpoint (KG vs. Boozer), Bulls lose a little in points, lose a little in rebounds, gain in defense. The difference between Deng/Pierce in PPG is a slight difference in favor of Pierce as well (very minimal). Pierce at 18PPG or so over the past 3 years; Deng around 17PPG (a little lower this year, but that is primarily a result of his injury). Deng also shoots a higher FG percentage, although Deng's current year FG% is terrible as a result of his injury (down around 41%). Lol, your post thread note is killing your argument. I would argue a lot of the problems with the Celtics being mediocre is that they have traded away their muscle(perkins) and they lost green due to his heart condition Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Mar 12, 2012 -> 03:30 PM) Lol, your post thread note is killing your argument. I would argue a lot of the problems with the Celtics being mediocre is that they have traded away their muscle(perkins) and they lost green due to his heart condition I don't really think so. You guys are living in the past on KG. I'd probably do this deal if it were Allen and KG and the only reason I do it is because the Bulls can outright sign another max player. Again, I only do it if I think they actually can get that. Otherwise, I have zero interest. On a sidenote, there is a good chance Asik is gone at the end of the year due to another team offering him more money than the Bulls will be able to match (since they don't want to pay luxury tax for him or at least I assume they won't). Why is my note killing the argument on a sidenote? Bulls lose defense in Boozer going, however, Deng is the better defender when compared to Pierce. Boozer > offensively than KG. Pierce > offensively than Deng. Neither are significant differences although I will say that Pierce can create his own shot significantly better than Pierce. And the Celtics are mediocre for a lot of reasons but the Bulls big 4 > Celtics big 4. Part of that is cause Rose > all, however, I'd argue there are other guys in the equation better as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Mar 12, 2012 -> 05:38 PM) I don't really think so. You guys are living in the past on KG. I'd probably do this deal if it were Allen and KG and the only reason I do it is because the Bulls can outright sign another max player. Again, I only do it if I think they actually can get that. Otherwise, I have zero interest. On a sidenote, there is a good chance Asik is gone at the end of the year due to another team offering him more money than the Bulls will be able to match (since they don't want to pay luxury tax for him or at least I assume they won't). Why is my note killing the argument on a sidenote? Bulls lose defense in Boozer going, however, Deng is the better defender when compared to Pierce. Boozer > offensively than KG. Pierce > offensively than Deng. Neither are significant differences although I will say that Pierce can create his own shot significantly better than Pierce. And the Celtics are mediocre for a lot of reasons but the Bulls big 4 > Celtics big 4. Part of that is cause Rose > all, however, I'd argue there are other guys in the equation better as well. The Bulls GAIN defense when you swap out Boozer for Garnett(as well as keeping the offense), and Pierce is a better scorer than Deng, the defense can be mitigated by adding Garnett. Im not living in the past, im living in the moment. This deal gives the Bulls flexibility going forward with Garnett expiring, and if i read right Pierce not guaranteed 13-14. This gives the Bulls an opportunity to have a better defensive team going into the playoffs and they keep the offense right where it is. Having Noah and Garnett next to each other would be pretty awesome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Mar 12, 2012 -> 03:44 PM) The Bulls GAIN defense when you swap out Boozer for Garnett(as well as keeping the offense), and Pierce is a better scorer than Deng, the defense can be mitigated by adding Garnett. Im not living in the past, im living in the moment. This deal gives the Bulls flexibility going forward with Garnett expiring, and if i read right Pierce not guaranteed 13-14. This gives the Bulls an opportunity to have a better defensive team going into the playoffs and they keep the offense right where it is. Having Noah and Garnett next to each other would be pretty awesome I don't quite see how the Bulls interior defense is the problem. To me you need a guy that can guard James or at least hold him on his own. While no one can stop James, Deng is the superior defender and the guy you stick on him. To me that is the important area. This deal does not make the Bulls a title contender and I'd argue it doesn't make them better now. When the Bulls need strong defense, they can always replace Boozer with Taj/Asik. We have that. Also, you talk about the flexibility going forward. What do you propose the Bulls do with that flexibility? Who would they be signing with that money that are better than Deng/Boozer? The Bulls have a young superstar and a very good core around him that is financially solid. They have the ability to amnesty Boozer if they ever want to and have some enticing draft picks/assets. I don't think I'm about to shorten my window unless I really think it guarantees me a championship (or damn near does). This deal doesn't do that but it certainly puts you in a far worse position 2, 3, and 4 years down the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexSoxFan#1 Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 (edited) The Bulls as currently constructed most likely will not beat the Heat, especially considering that they aren't going to be healthy this year...I say f*** it, roll the dice. KG, Noah and Gibson would murder Miami's frontcourt. PP has history of coming up big in the playoffs, just saying. Edited March 12, 2012 by MexSoxFan#1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Bulls playing half a step slow tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Bulls letting Lin go to the right far to often, defender should basically let him try and go left anytime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I personally think Thibs needs to get t'd up this game to even out the reffing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 And there it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 What a poorly officiated half on both ends. No rhythm at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 This is a really frustrating game. Some one needs to slap Rose because he keeps forgetting that Lin has no left and comes up to flat against Lin allowing him to drive right. Any time Rose has shaded Lin and come in on an angle preventing the drive to the right, Lin has given up the ball immediately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kev211 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Why would the Bulls make the Celtics trade? That's just pure stupidity I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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