2011-2012 NBA Season Thread

[LittleHurt05]

Until proven otherwise there are 2 coaches in the NBA who I think actually add wins to their team, Doc Rivers and Popovich. Every other coach is either neutral or a negative.

 

Ozzie Guillen?

[ZoomSlowik]

This. I think we put that whole team on a pedestal when in reality Kevin Durant is amazing and the rest are a notch or more below.

 

Very classy of Brooks to talk to his troops in the last timeout, if anyone saw that replayed on ESPN. Said "they beat us fair and square" and wanted to make sure that every Thunder player took the loss gracefully, congratulating the Heat.

 

With the way LeBron dominated these playoffs, I have to wonder if he needed "superstars" alongside him to win it. Wade in particular still had some great games, but these playoffs were all LeBron. Could he have won in Cleveland on a team that would have the money to invest in role players instead of superstars?

 

God no. I think the Orlando series a couple of years ago proved that. He averaged 38-8-8 and the Cavs would have lost in 5 if he didn't hit that miracle 3 at the end of game 2. You can't win a title if Mo Williams is your second best player.

 

Granted he didn't need Wade AND Bosh, but he needed someone else that was a legit threat to score so he didn't have to score 40 against legit teams to get a win. The Cavs were kind of a clusterf*** when he left, it was a miracle that they won 60 two years in a row with that roster.

[Soxbadger]

Call me a nuthugger, but I am not sure if the Chicago Bulls make it into the championship conversation without Tom Thibodeau.

 

He was a negative in this year's playoffs, though. He handled the shake up from the injuries worse than the players.

 

Thibs is a good in season coach. But there is a downside to pushing your players to hard during the regular season.

 

Also I think the Bulls roster is why the Bulls are in the championship conversation. Rose won MVP last year, it wasnt because Thibs drew up amazing plays, it was because Rose is a dynamic scorer who can finish when the play has broken down. When I objectively look at Thibs, I just cant consider him a great coach, he just uses personnel very odd, he doesnt really call great offensive plays, and people say he is an amazing defensive coach, but most of his defensive schemes are man to man. Very few times do you see a zone or anything unusual to try and trip up the other team.

 

I dont watch George Karl's team enough to really have an impression of him.

[Soxfest]

Sad to see the Heat win.............Sucks Rose got hurt............James will now be arrogant beyond belief.

[Kyyle23]

Thibs is a good in season coach. But there is a downside to pushing your players to hard during the regular season.

 

Also I think the Bulls roster is why the Bulls are in the championship conversation. Rose won MVP last year, it wasnt because Thibs drew up amazing plays, it was because Rose is a dynamic scorer who can finish when the play has broken down. When I objectively look at Thibs, I just cant consider him a great coach, he just uses personnel very odd, he doesnt really call great offensive plays, and people say he is an amazing defensive coach, but most of his defensive schemes are man to man. Very few times do you see a zone or anything unusual to try and trip up the other team.

 

I dont watch George Karl's team enough to really have an impression of him.

 

Yeah, but come on now, Rose was hurt for more than 40 percent of this season. Thibs still managed to get the 1 seed and tied the best record in the league. You just said there are 2 coaches that added wins to their team. Looking at this past season, you cant help but think thibs added wins

[Soxbadger]

I meant more wins in the playoffs, when you dont get to play bad teams.

 

I should have been more clear.

 

Thibs wins games in the regular season because he leaves his starters in until the bitter end and basically takes very little risk with resting them. That doesnt really make him a great coach, it just means he is willing to risk player health for a few regular season wins.

[SoxFan1]

So I assume when Michael stood on the scorer's table in the UC and put up fingers for championships 6, 7, 8, and 9, and didn't win 9 championships, that you've held it against him, right?

 

It's so funny to see fellow Bulls fans have so little understanding of how much of a dick Jordan was, just because he was ours, and then refuse to enjoy anything LeBron.

Ok, Mr. Flip Flop. Two days ago you, just like most others, couldn't stand Lebron's guts. You don't have to try and save face after how wrong you've been about him before. Now you've seen the light, right? Now you're above all Bulls fans.

 

Ok.

[Soxbadger]

http://espn.go.com/new-york/nba/story/_/id...hts-affects-cap

 

Pretty big ruling. NBA is trying to say that when you are waived you lose Bird rights, arbitrator disagreed.

[Soxbadger]

Some mocks have Kidd-Gilchrist falling to 5. If that happens and the Bulls could somehow land the pick, it would be pretty amazing.

 

 

[Quin]

I hate LeBron and Wade even more.

 

Bosh I've warmed up too, but that's cause he's f***ing weird. Wade and James are still grade A cocksuckers.

[Jordan4life_2007]

I hate LeBron and Wade even more.

 

Bosh I've warmed up too, but that's cause he's f***ing weird. Wade and James are still grade A cocksuckers.

 

Wade? Yes. I can't stand his ass anymore. He's a crybaby and a loafer. They were talking about it on the Score just a few minutes ago. LeBron immediately sought out Durant, Westbrook, Harden, etc after the buzzer sounded and congratulated them on a hard-fought series. Wade? He immediately jumped onto the scorers table and was looking for the camera. Wade is a joke.

[RockRaines]

I meant more wins in the playoffs, when you dont get to play bad teams.

 

I should have been more clear.

 

Thibs wins games in the regular season because he leaves his starters in until the bitter end and basically takes very little risk with resting them. That doesnt really make him a great coach, it just means he is willing to risk player health for a few regular season wins.

WTF? He adds wins because he's installed the best defense in the league. WITH rose they won a s***load of games in the playoffs and the regular season. You are acting like he's the only coach who tries to win every game which is 100% false. You didn't even start to watch the NBA until the NCAA season was over.

[Soxbadger]

WTF? He adds wins because he's installed the best defense in the league. WITH rose they won a s***load of games in the playoffs and the regular season. You are acting like he's the only coach who tries to win every game which is 100% false. You didn't even start to watch the NBA until the NCAA season was over.

 

Really?

 

Here is a post January 6, where I am commenting on the Miami Heat v Atlanta Hawks game I watched the night before.

 

http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=320105001

 

The difference between guys like Rose/Kobe and Wade/Lebron is astounding. I just cant imagine Rose/Kobe sitting on the bench in a 3 overtime game unless their leg needed to be amputated. What I found striking last night was that Wade/Lebron could have dressed and played, but they seemed more concerned about wearing college professor outfits and cheering on the sideline.

 

At minimum youd expect them to dress and be ready just in case.

 

 

You can disagree with me on Thibs, but to just flat out lie to try and prove your point is a little sad.

 

 

[RockRaines]

Really?

 

Here is a post January 6, where I am commenting on the Miami Heat v Atlanta Hawks game I watched the night before.

 

http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=320105001

 

 

 

 

You can disagree with me on Thibs, but to just flat out lie to try and prove your point is a little sad.

Aw it's sad? You've actually made that statement yourself, so maybe you were just talking out of your ass that particular time. And that doesn't prove the point, it was an unrelated statement possibly giving you a free pass for that viewpoint.

 

Second, the actual point which you ignored, since Thibs plays his stars so much more than others to win in the regular season, how come LeBron played more min per game during the regular season than Rose? How come Westbrook averaged the same min per game? Thibs is the best defensive coach in the league, and his arrival turned the Bulls into a defensive juggernaut.

Edited June 23, 2012 by RockRaines

[Soxbadger]

Find where I said it. Ive never said that. I have said I dont watch as MUCH NBA until after the NCAA tournament. Which is true.

 

That being said, you are comparing to Thibs to Spoelstra and Brooks, 2 coaches who I think are below average. My statement was about Popovich and Doc Rivers being better than coaches like that. So if you want to lump Thibs in that category, feel free.

 

Im going out for a while, but Ill give a lengthier post about what I think some of Thibs and the Bulls issues are.

 

I think Thibs is a good coach, I just think Rivers and Pop are better.

[RockRaines]

I watch the NBA because NCAA is over and so is football. Something has to fill that sports hole.

 

Rondo averaged more min per game than Rose as well.

Edited June 23, 2012 by RockRaines

[Soxbadger]

Right, I watch basketball every night because those other sports are over. I watched basically every NBA playoff game, I dont watch every NBA basketball game during the regular season because there are other sports.

 

/shrugs

 

That being said lets focus on Thibs player usage.

 

Deng played more mpg than any player, with an injured wrist.

 

Derrick Rose averaged 35 minutes per game with multiple injuries, which was down from his 37 minutes per game the year before. You compare him to Westbrook, who was healthy the whole season. In no universe so a hobbling Rose be carrying the same load as a fully healthy Westbrook. Rondo did play a lot of minutes, it seems he also was injured some too.

 

Then on the other end of the spectrum is Taj Gibson, who averaged less minutes than every Bulls regular except, JLIII and Asik.

 

I think Thibs is good at coaching defense, but I think he is not so great at in game management. I think he is better suited as an assistant to a coach who is a little more clever during the game. I really dislike Thib's subbing patterns, I dislike how he handles match ups and I also am not a fan of his out of bounds play. Thibs may be better than 75-80% of coaches, Rivers and Pop are just the only 2 I can recently recall watching and going "Damn that was clever.", maybe I have high standards, but I do think those 2 are better.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Balta1701]

It's fun to switch between total minutes and minutes per game when you avoid noting how many games people missed.

[Soxbadger]

I believe I only used minutes per game in my post, unless you are referring to something else.

[Balta1701]

I believe I only used minutes per game in my post, unless you are referring to something else.

carrying the same load as a fully healthy Westbrook. Rondo did play a lot of minutes, it seems he also was injured some too.

 

When a guy misses 15% of the seaosn like Deng, then what does it matter if he playes 0.5 more mpg than the next 3 guys? When Rose misses 60% of the seaosn, he's not carrying the same load.

[Soxbadger]

Because Deng has a wrist injury that he played through all season, so youd expect hed get some extra rest.

 

Rose is carrying the same load per game.

 

I was only referring to per game as the point was even when Rose was coming back from injuries, he still basically played a ton of minutes, never really getting fully healthy.

[justBLAZE]

Ok, Mr. Flip Flop. Two days ago you, just like most others, couldn't stand Lebron's guts. You don't have to try and save face after how wrong you've been about him before. Now you've seen the light, right? Now you're above all Bulls fans.

 

Ok.

 

LOL, jumped the bandwagon while it's still rolling.

[Kyyle23]

Because Deng has a wrist injury that he played through all season, so youd expect hed get some extra rest.

 

Rose is carrying the same load per game.

 

I was only referring to per game as the point was even when Rose was coming back from injuries, he still basically played a ton of minutes, never really getting fully healthy.

 

You are looking at Rose's minutes in a vacuum. After his injuries started, his minutes dropped dramatically when he would come back. Sure, for the first half of the season before the toe injury Thibs was riding him hard. But when he started piling up injuries, if the Bulls were up big Rose did not play in the 4th quarter if the bench mob could hold the lead. If the Bulls were up big and the bench mob lost the lead, Rose only came back when needed.

 

 

[Steve9347]

Ok, Mr. Flip Flop. Two days ago you, just like most others, couldn't stand Lebron's guts. You don't have to try and save face after how wrong you've been about him before. Now you've seen the light, right? Now you're above all Bulls fans.

 

Ok.

Two days ago? Try weeks ago.

[Soxbadger]

You are looking at Rose's minutes in a vacuum. After his injuries started, his minutes dropped dramatically when he would come back. Sure, for the first half of the season before the toe injury Thibs was riding him hard. But when he started piling up injuries, if the Bulls were up big Rose did not play in the 4th quarter if the bench mob could hold the lead. If the Bulls were up big and the bench mob lost the lead, Rose only came back when needed.

 

That is not really true.

 

Rose's injuries started in January. When he returned he played 36, 38, 37, 45, 41, 31, 40, 31 and then he starts to get injured again, 11, 22. So he misses another 5 games, when he comes back does he play 25-30 minutes to take it easy? No, he plays 35 minutes the first game. Then it goes 30, 41, 35, 28, 42, 29, 39, 36, 35, 43, and he is then out another 12 games. At this point youd really expect his first game back would be light work, but he plays 39 minutes and then has to miss the next game. After that the Bulls take it easy, he plays 25 minutes. The problem is the next game he once again plays 41 minutes and then has to sit again for another 3 games. He comes back and plays 32 minutes and the final game 27.

 

So your comment isnt really born out by the stats. Rose mpgs drop because a few games he played less than 25 minutes, but they were an aberration. It wasnt that after Rose got hurt early, he never played 35 minutes again. In fact he consistently kept playing 35+ minutes. There were just a few games where he played under 20 minutes and a handful of under 30.

 

In fact of his last 6 games, 3 were at least 39 minutes, and after every 38+ minute game he didnt play at least the next one.

 

The facts are Rose averaged the most minutes per game in Jan, when he was already experiencing injuries, and he only averaged a minute less in March after he had missed ten games. I do not agree with how Rose was handled at all.

Edited June 23, 2012 by Soxbadger