2011-2012 NBA Season Thread

[LittleHurt05]

Celtics can't beat a team missing 2 starters including 1 being far and away the best player on the team, has to be rough knowing your team is old and has no shot in the playoffs. Besides Rondo that team has nothing on it building towards a better future too.

 

Did you see the game on Sunday?

[chw42]

Did you see the game on Sunday?

 

Which they barely won...

 

NBA players sure age fast.

[kjshoe04]

So the Celtics are about even with the Bulls minus Derrick and Rip. Things aren't looking up for them.

[Jordan4life_2007]

So the Celtics are about even with the Bulls minus Derrick and Rip. Things aren't looking up for them.

 

Things haven't looked up for them since LeBron took his talents to South Beach. They had a great run. If KG is healthy in '09 and if they could've grabbed one frickin' defensive rebound in the 4th quarter of game 7, they probably 3-peat. But their time has passed.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Which they barely won...

 

NBA players sure age fast.

 

Football players age fast. KG, Pierce, and Allen have aged pretty well. But their time as elites are over.

[Steve9347]

It's funny to read those posts and then look at the free throw and fouls differential.

WOW DUDE YOU SHOULD TOTALLY WATCH GAMES

[Quin]

 

He has evolved.

[DBAHO]

I'm pretty much of the opinion it doesn't matter what the Celtics do in the regular season, so long as they're all healthy going into the playoffs.

 

Winning 9 out of 10 after a bad start shows they can pretty much knuckle down and win when they want to do.

 

I think when they play at their best, they're probably still the 3rd best team in the East who can push Chicago or Miami on their day.

[DBAHO]

Felix what's your thoughts on the Pau Gasol to Minny rumors that are floating around right now.

 

Although I read another scenario which I think may make more sense for the T-Wolves, Gasol to Houston, Kevin Martin + something to Minnesota, and the Lakers get some pieces (e.g Dragic + Scola + Beasley? + something), which may work out better for the T-Wolves, especially with the way Pekovic has come on.

[Kyyle23]

Felix what's your thoughts on the Pau Gasol to Minny rumors that are floating around right now.

 

Although I read another scenario which I think may make more sense for the T-Wolves, Gasol to Houston, Kevin Martin + something to Minnesota, and the Lakers get some pieces (e.g Dragic + Scola + Beasley? + something), which may work out better for the T-Wolves, especially with the way Pekovic has come on.

 

 

Hey Felix, are you hearing these Derrick Williams + picks + salary rumors for Pau Gasol?

 

 

I'd be pretty surprised if this were to happen. Kahn hasn't been a big trade type of GM and has already said we're basically sticking with minor moves unless someone blows him away. Plus, the need for a Gasol-type player has been minimized as of late by Nikola Pekovic tearing s*** up. We've got a much bigger need at the 2/3, so I wouldn't see us blowing our assets on a big when it's not the most glaring problem facing our team.

 

Something I think is more likely would be a Pau Gasol to HOU, Kevin Martin to MIN, Derrick Williams to LA type deal. That makes sense for all the teams involved, I think, but probably has too many hurdles to get through to actually be done.

 

 

LOL, its funny how you posted that without reading the previous conversation.

[Felix]

LOL, its funny how you posted that without reading the previous conversation.

It does make a lot more sense for everyone involved

 

(and as a fan of Kevin Martin and a hater of the ridiculously bad offense the Wolves have had out of their wings, I'd love it)

[southsider2k5]

http://espn.go.com/new-york/nba/story/_/id...new-york-knicks

 

A short time ago, the New York Knicks had a lot of question marks. Now it appears they're building a juggernaut.

 

Shooting guard J.R. Smith tweeted Friday that he has decided to join Carmelo Anthony, Amare Stoudemire and phenom Jeremy Lin in New York.

 

"New York Knicks It Is!" he posted on his Twitter account.

 

J.R. Smith

Smith

 

Smith, who played last season with the Denver Nuggets, had listed the Knicks, Clippers, Lakers, Magic, Bulls and Pacers as teams he was considering joining after a stint in China that started during the NBA lockout.

 

No contract terms were available, but the Knicks were able to offer Smith a pro-rated share of their $2.5 million mini mid-level exception and a player option for a second year.

 

Smith was due to fly back to the United States from China late Wednesday night. The New York Post reported that Smith will join the team Friday night at the Garden but will make his on-court debut Sunday against the Mavericks.

 

The New York Daily News had reported Thursday that the two sides were closing in on a deal. Smith's agent, Leon Rose, met with Madison Square Garden chairman James Dolan after Wednesday's Knicks game, the newspaper reported.

 

The Clippers, meanwhile, could offer Smith only the veteran's minimum for the rest of this season.

 

Smith is a former teammate of Anthony's in Denver. He averaged 12.3 points and 4.1 rebounds in 2010-11, shooting 39 percent from 3-point range. He has averaged 12.5 points per game during his seven-year career.

 

Smith started his career straight out of high school, getting drafted by the Hornets in 2004. In 2006, he was traded, along with P.J. Brown, to the Bulls for current Knicks center Tyson Chandler. The Bulls, though, shipped him to Denver six days later for Howard Eisley and draft picks.

 

There have been concerns about Smith's attitude over the years. In December 2006, he was involved in a brawl at Madison Square Garden between the Knicks and Nuggets. It was the worst fight in the NBA since the infamous melee in Detroit between the Pistons and Pacers two years before. For their parts in the NY brawl, Smith and Anthony were suspended 10 and 15 games, respectively, the most of any players.

 

In June 2007, Smith was involved in a car accident in which his friend Andre Bell was killed. Smith received a 90-day jail sentence for the incident but only had to serve 30. He also received a seven-game suspension from the NBA in 2009-10 for his guilty plea.

 

In October 2007, Smith was involved in a nightclub incident in Denver and was suspended the first three games of that season.

 

Information from ESPNLosAngeles.com's Ramona Shelburne and ESPN.com senior writer Marc Stein contributed to this report.

[Steve9347]

Now it appears they're building a juggernaut.

 

LOL it's f***ing JR Smith.

 

PG Lin

SG Smith

SF Melo

PF Amare

C Tyson

 

That should be good for about 120 points against any given night. "Seven Seconds or Less" will be arriving in MSG rather soon. Much like the previous "contenders" in Phoenix, this team stands no chance of actually winning anything.

[MexSoxFan#1]

I'm also in the replace Lucas with James camp.

I approve this messege.

[Kyyle23]

Now it appears they're building a juggernaut.

 

LOL it's f***ing JR Smith.

 

PG Lin

SG Smith

SF Melo

PF Amare

C Tyson

 

That should be good for about 120 points against any given night. "Seven Seconds or Less" will be arriving in MSG rather soon. Much like the previous "contenders" in Phoenix, this team stands no chance of actually winning anything.

 

JR Smith makes them a juggernaut like Tyson Chandler makes them an elite defense

[Brian]

The Knicks will need to play with 3 basketballs to please everyone

[DukeNukeEm]

The Knicks are dangerous..

[Quin]

The Knicks have four guys who's best attribute is scoring in Lin, Smith, Melo, and Amare. It's Phoenix all over again.

[MexSoxFan#1]

One of the biggest arguments against Wilt Chamberlain and Bill Russell getting no respect by some basketball fans is the notion that they played against essentially midgets...I found this at another forum and I was surprised at how tall players were back then, these players played in the 61-62 NBA season.

 

Pure Guards (Let's call them the Point Guards:

Bob Cousy G 6-1

K.C. Jones G 6-1

Gary Phillips G 6-3

Al Attles G 6-0

York Larese G 6-4

Guy Rodgers G 6-0

Al Bianchi G 6-3

Larry Costello G 6-1

Paul Neumann G 6-1

George Blaney G 6-1

Donnie Butcher G 6-2

Al Butler G 6-2

Richie Guerin G 6-4

Whitey Martin G 6-2

Sam Stith G 6-2

Hot Rod Hundley G 6-4

Bob McNeill G 6-1

Bobby Smith G 6-4

Jerry West G 6-2

Bucky Bockhorn G 6-4

Adrian Smith G 6-1

Dave Zeller G 6-1

Johnny Egan G 5-11

Willie Jones G 6-3

Chuck Noble G 6-4

Don Ohl G 6-3

Gene Shue G 6-2

Jimmy Darrow G 5-10

Dick Eichhorst G 6-3

Vern Hatton G 6-3

Cleo Hill G 6-1

Johnny McCarthy G 6-1

Lenny Wilkens G 6-1

Howie Carl G 5-9

Ralph Davis G 6-4

York Larese G 6-4

Slick Leonard G 6-3

1961-62 Season, 37 active, avg = 6-1.89"

1989-2011 NBA draft (sample size avail, 93) avg = 6-1.02"

(Point guards of that season averaged over 3/4 of an inch taller than modern point guards of 1989-present)

 

Guard/Forward swingmen (Let's call them the Shooting Guards):

Carl Braun G-F 6-5

Sam Jones G-F 6-4

Frank Ramsey F-G 6-3

Paul Arizin F-G 6-4

Ed Conlin F-G 6-5

Tom Gola G-F 6-6

Hal Greer G-F 6-2

Bill Smith G-F 6-5

Frank Selvy G-F 6-3

Oscar Robertson G-F 6-5

Jack Twyman F-G 6-6

George Lee F-G 6-4

Jackie Moreland F-G 6-7

Al Ferrari G-F 6-4

Si Green G-F 6-2

Cliff Hagan F-G 6-4

Fred LaCour G-F 6-5

Bob Sims G-F 6-5

Andy Johnson F-G 6-5

Jack Turner G-F 6-5

1961-62 Season, 20 active, avg = 6-4.45"

1989-2011 NBA draft (sample size avail, 90) avg = 6-3.76"

(Shooting guards of that season average over half an inch taller than shooting guards of 1989-present)

 

Pure Forwards (Let's call them the Small Forwards):

Gene Guarilia F 6-5

Jim Loscutoff F 6-5

Tom Sanders F 6-6

Ted Luckenbill F 6-6

Tom Meschery F 6-6

Frank Radovich F 6-8

Dave Gambee F 6-6

Joe Roberts F 6-6

Chuck Osborne F 6-6

Lee Shaffer F 6-7

Dave Budd F 6-6

Ed Burton F 6-6

Doug Kistler F 6-9

Elgin Baylor F 6-5

Tom Hawkins F 6-5

Bob Boozer F 6-8

Joe Buckhalter F 6-7

Bob Wiesenhahn F 6-4

Bailey Howell F 6-7

Shellie McMillon F 6-5

S. Arceneaux F 6-4

Horace Walker F 6-3

Barney Cable F 6-7

Ron Horn F 6-7

George Bon S. F 6-8

1961-62 Season, 25 active, avg = 6-6.08"

1989-2011 NBA draft (sample size avail, 91) avg = 6-6.40"

(The average small forward height of that season is only 1/3rd of an inch less than the average small forwards drafted between 1989-present)

 

Forward/Centers (Let's call them the Power Forwards):

Tom Heinsohn F-C 6-7

Joe Ruklick F-C 6-9

Joe Graboski F-C 6-7

Red Kerr C-F 6-9

Dolph Schayes F-C 6-7

C. Buckner F-C 6-9

Johnny Green F-C 6-5

Phil Jordon C-F 6-10

Willie Naulls F-C 6-6

Howie Jolliff F-C 6-7

Jim Krebs C-F 6-8

Rudy LaRusso F-C 6-7

Wayne Embry C-F 6-8

Hub Reed C-F 6-9

Bob Ferry C-F 6-8

Ray Scott F-C 6-9

Larry Foust C-F 6-9

Clyde Lovellette C-F 6-9

Bob Pettit F-C 6-9

W. Sauldsberry F-C 6-7

Archie Dees F-C 6-8

Joe Graboski F-C 6-7

Dave Piontek F-C 6-6

Charlie Tyra C-F 6-8

1961-62 Season, 24 active, avg = 6-7.83"

1989-2011 NBA draft (sample size avail, 127) avg = 6-7.95"

(The power forwards average height that season is negligible in comparison with all modern power forwards from 1989-present... less than 1/8th of an inch)

 

Players strictly listed as Centers:

Bill Russell C 6-9 (1/2)

Wilt Chamberlain C 7-1 (1/16)

Swede Halbrook C 7-3

Darrall Imhoff C 6-10

Ray Felix C 6-11

Wayne Yates C 6-8

Bevo Nordmann C 6-10

Walter Dukes C 7-0

Walt Bellamy C 6-11

1961-1962 Season, 9 active, avg = 6-11.06" (6-10.81" excluding Wilt)

1989-2011 NBA draft (sample size avail, 67) avg = 6-10.44"

(Centers of that season averaged over 1/4 of an inch taller than modern centers, and that is if we exclude Wilt - the difference is more than 1/2 an inch if we included him)

 

Players get divided this way because in 61-62 there were only 3 recognized positions. G, F, C - and guys that would swing between basically had identical team roles to "SG, PF". www.basketball-reference.com has done an excellent job at indicating the players that were pulling double-duties between 2 positions.

 

 

For players height...http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-...raft=100&sort=

[MexSoxFan#1]

I really hate the argument that because x player played in a past era, and if you stick them in today's era, they would be a scrub.If that's the case, why have a HOF for players before, say 1980...

 

Jackie Robinson, Jim Brown, Oscar Robertson and Dick Butkus suck!!!

 

Sweetness, you barely made the grade...SMH.

Edited February 17, 2012 by MexSoxFan#1

[Steve9347]

I really hate the argument that because x player played in a past era, and if you stick them in today's era, they would be a scrub.If that's the case, why have a HOF for players before, say 1980...

 

Jackie Robinson, Jim Brown, Oscar Robertson and Dick Butkus suck!!!

 

Sweetness, you barely made the grade...SMH.

You seem to not understand. You can only grade players on who they play against. Those arguments are all silly. You simply cannot compare players across eras. Competition breeds talent. The game has evolved.

 

Yes, if you stuck Bill Russell in a time machine, transported him to last night's Bulls/Celtics games and said "go" he'd be f***ed. He wasn't privy to the sports medicine and training of the day, and certainly to the speed of the game. If you cloned a baby Bill Russell and let that little science experiment grow up in today's world, competing against better and more frequent talent day in and day out, playing in college, then the NBA, then he COULD dominate. However, there's no guarantee that everything goes right.

 

Seriously, there are SO MANY VARIABLES that go into that discussion. The only discussion worth having is "did he rise above the competition in his era". In the case of Hall of Famers, that most certainly will be the case.

[Kyyle23]

You seem to not understand. You can only grade players on who they play against. Those arguments are all silly. You simply cannot compare players across eras. Competition breeds talent. The game has evolved.

 

Yes, if you stuck Bill Russell in a time machine, transported him to last night's Bulls/Celtics games and said "go" he'd be f***ed. He wasn't privy to the sports medicine and training of the day, and certainly to the speed of the game. If you cloned a baby Bill Russell and let that little science experiment grow up in today's world, competing against better and more frequent talent day in and day out, playing in college, then the NBA, then he COULD dominate. However, there's no guarantee that everything goes right.

 

Seriously, there are SO MANY VARIABLES that go into that discussion. The only discussion worth having is "did he rise above the competition in his era". In the case of Hall of Famers, that most certainly will be the case.

 

goddamn steve, sometimes you are S-M-R-T

[MexSoxFan#1]

You seem to not understand. You can only grade players on who they play against. Those arguments are all silly. You simply cannot compare players across eras. Competition breeds talent. The game has evolved.

 

Yes, if you stuck Bill Russell in a time machine, transported him to last night's Bulls/Celtics games and said "go" he'd be f***ed. He wasn't privy to the sports medicine and training of the day, and certainly to the speed of the game. If you cloned a baby Bill Russell and let that little science experiment grow up in today's world, competing against better and more frequent talent day in and day out, playing in college, then the NBA, then he COULD dominate. However, there's no guarantee that everything goes right.

 

Seriously, there are SO MANY VARIABLES that go into that discussion. The only discussion worth having is "did he rise above the competition in his era". In the case of Hall of Famers, that most certainly will be the case.

I agree with you, my beef is with those that say Russell sucks because he would do nothing today.

 

In 20 years they'll be saying that about Jordan, there are basketball forums I go to already arguing that, saying he didn't face the kind of athleticism and size in today's NBA...that's bull.

 

There are no time machines, like you said, let's compare them on how they played in their era.

 

IMO, Russell, Wilt, West SHOULD be included in the GOAT list, behind MJ of course

Edited February 17, 2012 by MexSoxFan#1

[MexSoxFan#1]

I really hate the argument that because x player played in a past era, and if you stick them in today's era, they would be a scrub.If that's the case, why have a HOF for players before, say 1980...

 

Jackie Robinson, Jim Brown, Oscar Robertson and Dick Butkus suck!!!

 

Sweetness, you barely made the grade...SMH.

To clarify, the last two sentences were sarcastic.

[Boogua]

I really hate the argument that because x player played in a past era, and if you stick them in today's era, they would be a scrub.If that's the case, why have a HOF for players before, say 1980...

 

Jackie Robinson, Jim Brown, Oscar Robertson and Dick Butkus suck!!!

 

Sweetness, you barely made the grade...SMH.

Baseball players tend to translate alright from any era to any era, IMO. I don't think there's any doubt that the other players would take a hit in the current era. It's not to say that they suck, it's just saying that the game is much different than the past.

 

The better argument against Russell is the pace and the type of game that was played back then. If you watch replays from back then it's absolute chaos. It looks like a hectic pick up game at the park. There weren't many good shooters, and the players drove to the hole jacking up crazy shots for the most part. Which is why a very good athlete, in Russell, was able to dominate the game.

 

That being said, the guy had no offensive game. He averaged 15 points a game for his career and shot 43% from the field. There's absolutely no reason to believe that he would be a good offensive player in ANY era. In the post merger NBA a Center has to be good at both offense and defense to be great. If not, we would be talking about Dikembe Mutombo and Ben Wallace in completely different lights.

 

Also, Jim Brown was was 6-2 232. To put it in perspective, their (the browns) HOF guard was 6-3 248 and their HOF DT was 6-2 248. I'm not saying Brown would be garbage, but it's obvious that he was just physically superior to pretty much everyone.