2011-2012 NBA Season Thread

[kjshoe04]

Also, Jim Brown was was 6-2 232. To put it in perspective, their (the browns) HOF guard was 6-3 248 and their HOF DT was 6-2 248. I'm not saying Brown would be garbage, but it's obvious that he was just physically superior to pretty much everyone.

Lebron is physically superior to everyone today. I don't get what this proves.

[Kyyle23]

Lebron is physically superior to everyone today. I don't get what this proves.

 

To me it proves that this argument will go on forever, and there will be those in Wilt/Bills corner and those who are not

[Boogua]

Lebron is physically superior to everyone today. I don't get what this proves.

It proves that basketball is different than football.

 

I mean that football is a tad bit more physical than basketball, so I don't really know how you make that comparison. If NBA players had to tackle lebron (a 6-8 260 pound monster), then sure I could see it. There are a decent amount of skills involved in playing basketball that can cause a physically dominant player to have problems. Playing running back is just a LITTLE different.

Edited February 17, 2012 by Boogua

[MexSoxFan#1]

Lebron is physically superior to everyone today. I don't get what this proves.

If LBJ doesn't get it done this year, he should legally change his name to LeFraud, he complained he had no help in Cleveland, he now has a top 5 team mate and an All-Star foward, no excuses now Bronsy.

Edited February 17, 2012 by MexSoxFan#1

[MexSoxFan#1]

It proves that basketball is different than football.

 

I mean that football is a tad bit more physical than basketball, so I don't really know how you make that comparison. If NBA players had to tackle lebron (a 6-8 260 pound monster), then sure I could see it. There are a decent amount of skills involved in playing basketball that can cause a physically dominant player to have problems. Playing running back is just a LITTLE different.

If LBJ was 6'4 235, he wouldn't be dominating like he is now, he creates a match up nightmare with his quickness, strenght and SIZE.

[Steve9347]

In 20 years they'll be saying that about Jordan, there are basketball forums I go to already arguing that, saying he didn't face the kind of athleticism and size in today's NBA...that's bull.

Well, that's just silly because Jordan would simply skullf*** these idiots today.

[Boogua]

If LBJ was 6'4 235, he wouldn't be dominating like he is now, he creates a match up nightmare with his quickness, strenght and SIZE.

And if he wasn't able to dribble or shoot the way he's able to he wouldn't be dominating like he is now either. Obviously his size and athleticism help him tremendously, but if you think that there's an equal amount importance when comparing the physicality of a basketball player to an NFL running back, I don't know what to say.

[MexSoxFan#1]

And if he wasn't able to dribble or shoot the way he's able to he wouldn't be dominating like he is now either. Obviously his size and athleticism help him tremendously, but if you think that there's an equal amount importance when comparing the physicality of a basketball player to an NFL running back, I don't know what to say.

Actually, that's not what I'm saying.

 

My original point is that we shouldn't disrespect past players based on the assumption that they would be garbage today, I understand that the game is different today, players are bigger and faster, sports medicine, etc., let's just compare them to what they did in their era.

 

That's all.

Edited February 17, 2012 by MexSoxFan#1

[southsider2k5]

I agree with you, my beef is with those that say Russell sucks because he would do nothing today.

 

In 20 years they'll be saying that about Jordan, there are basketball forums I go to already arguing that, saying he didn't face the kind of athleticism and size in today's NBA...that's bull.

There are no time machines, like you said, let's compare them on how they played in their era.

 

IMO, Russell, Wilt, West SHOULD be included in the GOAT list, behind MJ of course

 

No it isn't, it is absolutely true.

[MexSoxFan#1]

No it isn't, it is absolutely true.

I've gotten into heated debates about this in another forum, don't want to get into it here but it's true players are more athletic today, but the game has become more perrimeter friendly, no hand-checking, beating up a player going to the hole was part of the game in MJ's era, today you breathe on someone and it's a foull and there is a complete lack of quality big men proctecting the paint...MJ would beast in this era.

 

I will add that there are alot of weak teams nowadays, I don't remember the 90s having so many crappy teams.

 

Athleticism is up, fundamentals and skills have gone down.

Edited February 17, 2012 by MexSoxFan#1

[southsider2k5]

I've gotten into heated debates about this in another forum, don't want to get into it here but if it's true players are athletic today, the game has become more perrimeter friendly, no hand-checking, beating up a player going to the hole was part of the game in MJ's era, today you breathe on someone and it's a foull and there is a complete lack of quality big men proctecting the paint...MJ would beast in this era.

 

I will add that there are alot of weak teams nowadays, I don't remember the 90s having so many crappy teams.

 

Athleticism is up, fundamentals and skills have gone down.

 

If you gave MJ a relative skill level to today that is one thing, but taking 1990 MJ and putting him into today's game, he wouldn't be nearly as good. Players are bigger, stronger, and faster than they were 20 years ago. I get the rule changes, but there are guys in the game today who can stay in front of players like that. Defenders like Luol Deng didn't also exist 20 years ago.

[CrimsonWeltall]

One of the biggest arguments against Wilt Chamberlain and Bill Russell getting no respect by some basketball fans is the notion that they played against essentially midgets...I found this at another forum and I was surprised at how tall players were back then, these players played in the 61-62 NBA season.

 

Interesting, but with a couple flaws, I think.

 

The '62 players are represented by the players on the teams in that year, but the modern players are represented by anyone drafted, which is going to include shorter players teams take a chance on despite being undersized, who quickly get bounced out of the league. Also, I don't like the division of G=PG, G-F/F-G=SG, F=SF, F-C/C-F=PF, C=C. F-Gs could easily be small forwards (not SG) and F-C/C-Fs would play center.

 

For the hell of it, I went and looked at the teams from '62 and this year and picked the guy who was the real primary big man. I'm sure my method has flaws too, but it was interesting anyway.

 

1962

Warriors: 7-1 Wilt

Celtics: 6-9 Russell

Knicks: 6-10 Imhoff/6-10 Jordon

Nationals: 6-9 Red Kerr (7-3 Swede Halbrook barely played)

Packers: 6-11 Bellamy

Hawks: 6-9 Lovelette (Hawks don't even have a player listed as C)

Pistons: 6-8 Ferry/7-0 Dukes (about equal minutes)

Royals: 6-8 Embry (played 8x more minutes 6-10 Nordman)

Lakers: 6-8 Krebs/6-11 Felix

 

2012

Bulls: 6'11" Noah

Heat: 6'9" Anthony

76ers: 7'0" Hawes

Hawks: 6'11" Zaza

Magic: 6'11" Howard

Pacers: 7'2" Hibbert

Celtics: 6'11" Oneal

Knicks: 7'1" Chandler

Bucks: 7'0" Bogut

Cavs: 6'10" Varajao

Pistons: 6'11" Monroe

Raptors: 6'9" Johnson (team also starts 7'0" Bargnani)

Nets: 6'11" Okur

Wizards: 7'0" McGee

Bobcats: 7'0" Mullins

Thunder: 6'10 Perkins (next to 6'10" Ibaka)

Spurs: 6'11" Duncan

Clips: 6'11" Jordan

Mavs: 7'0" Haywood (next to 7'0" Dirk)

Lakers: 7'0" Bynum (next to 7'0" Gasol)

Rockets: 6'11" Dalembert

Nuggets: 7'1" Mozgov

Grizz: 7'1" Gasol

Blazers: 6'11" Camby (next to 6'11" Aldridge)

Jazz: 6'10" Jefferson

Wolves: 7'0" Darko

Warriors: 6'11" Biedrins

Suns: 6'11" Gortat

Kings: 6'11" Thompson (next to 6'11" Cousins)

Hornets: 6'10" Okafor

 

The 1962 average is about 6'9.4".

The 2012 average is about 6'11.2".

 

The centers are 2 inches taller on average than the 1962 centers, to say nothing of some of the huge PFs we have now.

Edited February 17, 2012 by CrimsonWeltall

[Boogua]

If you gave MJ a relative skill level to today that is one thing, but taking 1990 MJ and putting him into today's game, he wouldn't be nearly as good. Players are bigger, stronger, and faster than they were 20 years ago. I get the rule changes, but there are guys in the game today who can stay in front of players like that. Defenders like Luol Deng didn't also exist 20 years ago.

Question: What can Dwayne Wade do better than 1990 Michael Jordan?

[southsider2k5]

Question: What can Dwayne Wade do better than 1990 Michael Jordan?

 

Honestly, pretty much everything except dunks and probably defense.

[Steve9347]

Honestly, pretty much everything except dunks and probably defense.

You are on drugs.

[Boogua]

Honestly, pretty much everything except dunks and probably defense.

Wow. Okay. Arguing this would probably just be a waste of time then.

[southsider2k5]

You are on drugs.

 

 

Wow. Okay. Arguing this would probably just be a waste of time then.

 

I am sure it is a waste of time, because I can acknowledge that the game has changed in the last twenty years.

[Boogua]

I am sure it is a waste of time, because I can acknowledge that the game has changed in the last twenty years.

Michael Jordan played 10 years ago, at nearly 40, and had 40 point games against teams like the Suns and the Nets. Being guarded by guys like Shawn Marion and Jason Kidd. Two guys that were guarding Dwayne Wade in the finals last year WAYYYY past their prime.

[MexSoxFan#1]

If you gave MJ a relative skill level to today that is one thing, but taking 1990 MJ and putting him into today's game, he wouldn't be nearly as good. Players are bigger, stronger, and faster than they were 20 years ago. I get the rule changes, but there are guys in the game today who can stay in front of players like that. Defenders like Luol Deng didn't also exist 20 years ago.

Ever heard of Micheal Cooper, Steve Smith, Gerald Wilkins...

 

Deng, as good as he is, is not as good a defender as Pippen, not even close, Pip dominated games with his D, Deng isn't on that level.

 

1988 Jordan would crap on the NBA today just based on the fact you can't use your forearm to slow him down, you can't thug him (Celtics, Pistons, Knicks) without picking up a flagrant foul (FF didn't even exsist until the early 90s).

 

Tell me, who do you think can stay in front of prime MJ, I need a laugh.

[MexSoxFan#1]

Honestly, pretty much everything except dunks and probably defense.

OMG

[southsider2k5]

Ever heard of Micheal Cooper, Steve Smith, Gerald Wilkins...

 

Deng, as good as he is, is not as good a defender as Pippen, not even close, Pip dominated games with his D, Deng isn't on that level.

 

1988 Jordan would crap on the NBA today just based on the fact you can't use your forearm to slow him down, you can't thug him (Celtics, Pistons, Knicks) without picking up a flagrant foul (FF didn't even exsist until the early 90s).

 

Tell me, who do you think can stay in front of prime MJ, I need a laugh.

 

I watched all of those guys growing up. Trust me.

 

Throwing out the MJ crush, it is a different game. I think if you just picked up 1990 MJ and move him into today's game unchanged, he would be a decent, but not great player.

[Steve9347]

Comparing 1992 to 2012 is a HUGE difference from 1962 to 2012.

 

Dude. I can't even bother to argue with you. Your stance is too moronic. Michael Jordan would absolutely rape the NBA today. Eliminate handchecks and he'd drop 40 a night with little effort.

 

Just. Stop. Please.

 

"Defenders like Luol Deng didn't exist 20 years ago"

 

Jesus f***ing Christ. Scottie Pippen should slap you in the face.

Edited February 17, 2012 by Steve9347

[MexSoxFan#1]

Michael Jordan played 10 years ago, at nearly 40, and had 40 point games against teams like the Suns and the Nets. Being guarded by guys like Shawn Marion and Jason Kidd. Two guys that were guarding Dwayne Wade in the finals last year WAYYYY past their prime.

MJ way past his prime also played against Kobe and did just fine...Kobe f***ing Bryant.

[southsider2k5]

Comparing 1992 to 2012 is a HUGE difference from 1962 to 2012.

 

Dude. I can't even bother to argue with you. Your stance is too moronic. Michael Jordan would absolutely rape the NBA today. Eliminate handchecks and he'd drop 40 a night with little effort.

 

Just. Stop. Please.

 

"Defenders like Luol Deng didn't exist 20 years ago"

 

Jesus f***ing Christ. Scottie Pippen should slap you in the face.

 

Well no s*** sherlock. The game changes more in 50 years, than it does in 20... imagine that. Fanboys will never admit MJ as anything other than the GOAT, which is why this discussion won't go anywhere.

[Steve9347]

Well no s*** sherlock. The game changes more in 50 years, than it does in 20... imagine that. Fanboys will never admit MJ as anything other than the GOAT, which is why this discussion won't go anywhere.

You just seem to have little to zero knowledge of the NBA 20 years ago then. Congratulations.