Jenksismyhero Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Feb 17, 2012 -> 03:51 PM) Yes, you are right, muscles did not exist until 2005. Oh man, that brings me back. I had those shoes. They were great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexSoxFan#1 Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Feb 17, 2012 -> 04:44 PM) This all started with Bill Russell/Wilt. Wilt would be a beast. This is true. He translates to any era. Guys like Cousy and Russell? I'm not even sure they could play in the college game, let alone the NBA. And that's real sad considering how terrible a product college basketball has become. Isn't Nash an unathletic white guy like Cousy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 QUOTE (MexSoxFan#1 @ Feb 17, 2012 -> 03:54 PM) Isn't Nash an unathletic white guy like Cousy? Nash is pretty damn athletic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 QUOTE (ptatc @ Feb 17, 2012 -> 03:51 PM) That's true. Fat out of shape guys can't hit kind of like Prince Fielder and Miguel Cabrera. Those two are 1987 Arnold Schwarzenegger from Predator compared to Tom Arnold, oh, I mean Babe Ruth. He got a candy bar named after him. That's all you need to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 QUOTE (MexSoxFan#1 @ Feb 17, 2012 -> 03:54 PM) Isn't Nash an unathletic white guy like Cousy? Stop it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexSoxFan#1 Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 17, 2012 -> 04:41 PM) And in todays game, his length and quickness would be nothing special. Most teams have a guy with those type of dimensions (though probably better built) and quickness. SS2k5, I would love to see you list 5 current NBA players who are on Pippen's level defensively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Feb 17, 2012 -> 03:57 PM) Stop it. STOP IT http://www.nba.com/bulls/stacey-king-soundboard.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrunkBomber Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Im about as far from a Jordan fanboy as youll find in the Bulls fan base but I dont see how someone in their right mind could think Jordan wouldnt be great in todays NBA. Sure there are better athletes now then there were in the early 90's but that doesnt take away from Jordans athleticism. Jordan had a virtually unguardable fade away, and that was when defenders could get away with a lot more. He would be able to create his own shots at will with the new rules and would be on the free throw line all night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 QUOTE (MexSoxFan#1 @ Feb 17, 2012 -> 04:00 PM) SS2k5, I would love to see you list 5 current NBA players who are on Pippen's level defensively. He's going to tell you that Ronnie Brewer would be better than Pippen in today's game. HE'S OLD HE KNOWS THINGS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Feb 17, 2012 -> 03:56 PM) Those two are 1987 Arnold Schwarzenegger from Predator compared to Tom Arnold, oh, I mean Babe Ruth. He got a candy bar named after him. That's all you need to know. I would disagree, they are both fat and out of shape slobs. But like you've said before, I know nothing about athletes. I've only worked with olympic and professional athletes for the past 30 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boogua Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 17, 2012 -> 03:45 PM) Haven't the point per game averages come down a bunch in the last 10 years? Possibly, I don't have time to do the exact research right now. I do know that in 2003 T-Mac was the leading scorer with 28 PPG (it was a pathetic season) and after that it seemed like the NBA knew they had to make a change. The lack of jump shooting and fundamentals were killing the NBA. They instituted the handcheck rule and after that it became a Guards league. There were 4 people in 05-06 that averaged better than that 28 PPG in 03. Three players that averaged over 30 PPG. Kobe Bryant averaged 10 FTA per game for three straight seasons after the handcheck rule was instated. He was averaging about 8 per game before that. I think the scoring has decreased in the past 10 years because of the offense, not because of the athletes on defense. Players are much worse shooters and they don't post up like they used to. Carlos Boozer got a monster contract because he was one of the true post players in the NBA. Even though he's 6'8 and unathletic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexSoxFan#1 Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Feb 17, 2012 -> 04:57 PM) Stop it. OK, I won't defend Cousy, all I know about him is the reputation, never actually seen a video of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 17, 2012 -> 12:48 PM) Honestly, pretty much everything except dunks and probably defense. I have no idea how you can make this statement with a straight face. MJ would absolutely destroy in this league. The rules were far more beneficial to defensive players in that era and he still lit it up. The players were more physical and in my opinion better defensively as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Feb 17, 2012 -> 04:02 PM) I have no idea how you can make this statement with a straight face. MJ would absolutely destroy in this league. The rules were far more beneficial to defensive players in that era and he still lit it up. The players were more physical and in my opinion better defensively as well. He's abandoned the thread due to shame and humiliation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexSoxFan#1 Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (DrunkBomber @ Feb 17, 2012 -> 05:00 PM) Im about as far from a Jordan fanboy as youll find in the Bulls fan base but I dont see how someone in their right mind could think Jordan wouldnt be great in todays NBA. Sure there are better athletes now then there were in the early 90's but that doesnt take away from Jordans athleticism. Jordan had a virtually unguardable fade away, and that was when defenders could get away with a lot more. He would be able to create his own shots at will with the new rules and would be on the free throw line all night. Players today don't only jump, they hover, MJ's fader would be blocked easily. /green text Edited February 17, 2012 by MexSoxFan#1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 17, 2012 -> 01:09 PM) Well no s*** sherlock. The game changes more in 50 years, than it does in 20... imagine that. Fanboys will never admit MJ as anything other than the GOAT, which is why this discussion won't go anywhere. You are out of your mind. Jordan was physically superior to almost anyone playing in today's league. In fact, the NBA game is actually worse than it was during many of Jordan's run. I'd actually say that pro basketball is one of the sports that hasn't gotten better of the years. Baseball players have gotten there, football the same, but in terms of basketball, there are a lot of guys who played in the past that are tremendous players. Jordan would score 40 a game with ease given the lack of overall defense that is played and the beneficial rules. It wouldn't even be close. Would Wilt be as great today as he was than, nope. He was the only big in the game, practically. In this day and age, that is different. I'd take MJ, physically, over pretty much every single player in the game. Not many 6'7 players can do what he did athletically. Hell, not many could do what Kobe did and when they went up Kobe was physically younger and still was dominated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 QUOTE (Boogua @ Feb 17, 2012 -> 04:02 PM) Possibly, I don't have time to do the exact research right now. I do know that in 2003 T-Mac was the leading scorer with 28 PPG (it was a pathetic season) and after that it seemed like the NBA knew they had to make a change. The lack of jump shooting and fundamentals were killing the NBA. They instituted the handcheck rule and after that it became a Guards league. There were 4 people in 05-06 that averaged better than that 28 PPG in 03. Three players that averaged over 30 PPG. Kobe Bryant averaged 10 FTA per game for three straight seasons after the handcheck rule was instated. He was averaging about 8 per game before that. I think the scoring has decreased in the past 10 years because of the offense, not because of the athletes on defense. Players are much worse shooters and they don't post up like they used to. Carlos Boozer got a monster contract because he was one of the true post players in the NBA. Even though he's 6'8 and unathletic. Booqua has a point. I don't feel like going to basketball reference right now. But when Detroit won those two titles in '89/'90, it kick-started a new defensive revolution. You saw those Pat Riley Knicks teams REALLY start to emphasize defense after that and a bunch of other teams followed. Scoring and percentages went down just about every year until it got ridiculous in 2004 with crappy Big-10 basketball making it's way to the pro game. The NBA saw to it that we'd never see another '04 Pistons team again (thank god for that by the way). Scoring and percentages have gone way up since 2004 before this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Feb 17, 2012 -> 04:09 PM) The NBA saw to it that we'd never see another '04 Pistons team again (thank god for that by the way). Preach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimsonWeltall Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 QUOTE (MexSoxFan#1 @ Feb 17, 2012 -> 11:02 PM) OK, I won't defend Cousy, all I know about him is the reputation, never actually seen a video of him. Watch some videos on youtube...they're incredibly awkward. I think he'd average about 40 turnovers a game in today's NBA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Feb 17, 2012 -> 04:07 PM) You are out of your mind. Jordan was physically superior to almost anyone playing in today's league. In fact, the NBA game is actually worse than it was during many of Jordan's run. I'd actually say that pro basketball is one of the sports that hasn't gotten better of the years. Baseball players have gotten there, football the same, but in terms of basketball, there are a lot of guys who played in the past that are tremendous players. Jordan would score 40 a game with ease given the lack of overall defense that is played and the beneficial rules. It wouldn't even be close. Would Wilt be as great today as he was than, nope. He was the only big in the game, practically. In this day and age, that is different. I'd take MJ, physically, over pretty much every single player in the game. Not many 6'7 players can do what he did athletically. Hell, not many could do what Kobe did and when they went up Kobe was physically younger and still was dominated. OK come on now. We're going to the other extreme with this argument. We're closing in on "Ditka 110, Packers 3" territory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Feb 17, 2012 -> 01:34 PM) Yeah he did, but he also had the rare athletic qualities that guys now have - he was 6'8", 230 lbs with speed and long arms. He could guard 1-4 and sometimes 5. I've always felt Lebron's greatness from basketball "skills" is overrated. I think it's mostly due to his physical attributes. He's Pippen with an extra 20-25 lbs with the same speed and better leaping ability. Not saying he sucks, obviously, but make him 2 inches shorter and 30 lbs lighter and his skill wouldn't allow him to dominate games. That's what makes guys like Jordan and Kobe so special. They're not physically overpowering. They're incredibly skilled at shooting/dribbling/finishing around the rim. Lebron is a better scoring Magic. Lebron is one of the greatest players I've ever seen. Unfortunately he doesn't have the "it" that Jordan/Kobe have. To compare him with Pippen is a slap in the face to Lebron. Lebron is one of the best passers in the game (Pippen was solid but he's no LBJ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexSoxFan#1 Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Feb 17, 2012 -> 05:06 PM) He's abandoned the thread due to shame and humiliation. He said almost every team had a defender like Pippen in today's NBA, honestly I can't think of one, not even LBJ, he got smoked by Terry in the Finals and couldn't lock him down even after Terry told LBJ he couldn't guard him...Pippen would've chased Terry from pro basketball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Feb 17, 2012 -> 04:11 PM) OK come on now. We're going to the other extreme with this argument. We're closing in on "Ditka 110, Packers 3" territory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 QUOTE (CrimsonWeltall @ Feb 17, 2012 -> 04:10 PM) Watch some videos on youtube...they're incredibly awkward. I think he'd average about 40 turnovers a game in today's NBA. Oh my god. I wouldn't wish a Bob Cousy video on my worst enemy. Don't do that to Mex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 QUOTE (MexSoxFan#1 @ Feb 17, 2012 -> 01:38 PM) Dude, just stop, Pippen dominated with his length and quickness, don't confuse him with Anthony Mason. Pippen made All Defensive first team from '92-'99, when the hand check rule was already implemented. And was still a defensive stopper late in his career. I find this proposterous. Pippen gets overrated a bit, however, defensively, he was an all out stud. Offensively he had some limitations but he proved his worth the year MJ was gone. Dude should have been the MVP of the league that year. He truly was a tremendous player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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