2011-2012 NBA Season Thread

[Steve9347]

Also the sudden flip on Lin is hilarious. He's had one bad game out of 8 or 9 now.

He already has more turnovers on the season than Derrick Rose. That's pretty nutty.

[Jenksismyhero]

Sure, that's a terrible stat, but he's also a rookie. Did Rose have a jump shot when he was a rookie?

 

All I know is that Lin plays the pick and pop better than the majority of PG's out there. He can hit a jump shot (in big moments), he handles the ball well and he has ways of driving and dishing to open teammates. He has some flaws to his game, but just about everyone does. I don't see how a bad game against "the best team to ever grace a basketball court" is the last straw on his career.

[Kyyle23]

Sure, that's a terrible stat, but he's also a rookie. Did Rose have a jump shot when he was a rookie?

 

All I know is that Lin plays the pick and pop better than the majority of PG's out there. He can hit a jump shot (in big moments), he handles the ball well and he has ways of driving and dishing to open teammates. He has some flaws to his game, but just about everyone does. I don't see how a bad game against "the best team to ever grace a basketball court" is the last straw on his career.

 

No, he does not.

[Jenksismyhero]

No, he does not.

 

The guy makes some terrible decisions passing the ball. He can dribble and get around guys pretty effectively when he needs to.

[LittleHurt05]

No, he does not.

 

Since he started playing big minutes, he is on pace to have more turnovers than anyone in the history of the NBA.

[Kyyle23]

The guy makes some terrible decisions passing the ball. He can dribble and get around guys pretty effectively when he needs to.

 

Did you watch how many times Chalmers picked his pocket last night? They got up in his face, forced him left, and stripped the ball. AND his passing was bad.

 

I certainly dont think his career is over, but like I said a few weeks ago when this "Jeremy Lin is happening" and "Linsanity" started, the book wasnt out on this kid yet. Once it is, he will be attacked and he wont look like the kid who is dropping 38 on the Lakers. He will have more games like that, but he wont do it all the time. And when good defensive teams get up in his face, he will look lost like he did last night.

[Jenksismyhero]

Did you watch how many times Chalmers picked his pocket last night? They got up in his face, forced him left, and stripped the ball. AND his passing was bad.

 

I certainly dont think his career is over, but like I said a few weeks ago when this "Jeremy Lin is happening" and "Linsanity" started, the book wasnt out on this kid yet. Once it is, he will be attacked and he wont look like the kid who is dropping 38 on the Lakers. He will have more games like that, but he wont do it all the time. And when good defensive teams get up in his face, he will look lost like he did last night.

 

That's a fair assumption, but why isn't it a fair assumption that he'll work on his game to correct these deficiencies? Again, using Rose as an example, his first year he couldn't hit an open jump shot with much consistency. The game plan was to play off of him so he couldn't drive. Over the next two seasons he became a pretty decent shooter, especially from 3.

 

I just see Lin's game as being correctable. Maybe he'll never be the strongest going to his left, but he can work on it and get better. He can certainly become smarter about passing the ball around as he gets more and more comfortable with his teammates and the NBA game generally. Last night a lot of his turnovers were also caused by him getting stuffed near the rim with his floaters. That was the first really physical team he's played, and they happen to be one of the best in the league.

[bmags]

That's a fair assumption, but why isn't it a fair assumption that he'll work on his game to correct these deficiencies? Again, using Rose as an example, his first year he couldn't hit an open jump shot with much consistency. The game plan was to play off of him so he couldn't drive. Over the next two seasons he became a pretty decent shooter, especially from 3.

 

I just see Lin's game as being correctable. Maybe he'll never be the strongest going to his left, but he can work on it and get better. He can certainly become smarter about passing the ball around as he gets more and more comfortable with his teammates and the NBA game generally. Last night a lot of his turnovers were also caused by him getting stuffed near the rim with his floaters. That was the first really physical team he's played, and they happen to be one of the best in the league.

 

pretty much. Because we all know young players never improve upon their turnovers.

[Jordan4life_2007]

That's a fair assumption, but why isn't it a fair assumption that he'll work on his game to correct these deficiencies? Again, using Rose as an example, his first year he couldn't hit an open jump shot with much consistency. The game plan was to play off of him so he couldn't drive. Over the next two seasons he became a pretty decent shooter, especially from 3.

 

I just see Lin's game as being correctable. Maybe he'll never be the strongest going to his left, but he can work on it and get better. He can certainly become smarter about passing the ball around as he gets more and more comfortable with his teammates and the NBA game generally. Last night a lot of his turnovers were also caused by him getting stuffed near the rim with his floaters. That was the first really physical team he's played, and they happen to be one of the best in the league.

 

GMAB. Lin is not going to miraculously develop quickness and ball-handling at 23-years old. Those are things you either have from jump or you don't. Like Steve said, Lin's turnovers are not even NBA turnovers. Russell Westbrook turns the ball over a lot because he has suspect decision-making and at times tries to do to much. Lin's turnovers are just embarassing. He looked like Justin Bieber. No, not every team has the defensive personnel that Miami has. But there's plenty of ball-hawking, quick guards that are going to make it a priority to drape themselves all over him (without fear of getting beat off the dribble) and force him to go to his incredibly weak left-hand.

[Jenksismyhero]

GMAB. Lin is not going to miraculously develop quickness and ball-handling at 23-years old. Those are things you either have from jump or you don't. Like Steve said, Lin's turnovers are not even NBA turnovers. Russell Westbrook turns the ball over a lot because he has suspect decision-making and at times tries to do to much. Lin's turnovers are just embarassing. He looked like Justin Bieber. No, not every team has the defensive personnel that Miami has. But there's plenty of ball-hawking, quick guards that are going to make it a priority to drape themselves all over him (without fear of getting beat off the dribble) and force him to go to his incredibly weak left-hand.

 

I think he's plenty quick, and that's been proven the last few weeks. His ball handling is absolutely something he can work on. Good players work on it all of their careers. Just like a jump shot, which players routinely become better at as they get older.

 

IMO his ceiling is a poor man's Nash. Someone who's not crazy quick, not crazy athletic, but someone who has a high bball IQ especially with the pick and roll. If you will recall, that type of PG thrives in a Dantoni system.

[Harry Chappas]

Did I hear correctly that lin did not play point guard in high school or college?

[Steve9347]

Derrick Rose - 882 minutes, 73 turnovers

Jeremy Lin - 506 minutes, 76 turnovers

 

That's just ridiculously irresponsible.

[DukeNukeEm]

Jeremy Lin has been around for less than a month, if it were some #1 overall rookie pulling this s*** off people would've crowned his ass. Turnovers be damned, we'd all be in awe. But the hype machine spun up for Lin and now the inevitable internet anti-ESPN backlash has followed. It's silly, everyone has to find a fault in an obviously talented players game and make it out to be his total undoing.

[Felix]

The NBA thread always amazes me.

[Steve9347]

The NBA thread always amazes me.

It's the best thread of ever.

[southsider2k5]

Jeremy Lin has been around for less than a month, if it were some #1 overall rookie pulling this s*** off people would've crowned his ass. Turnovers be damned, we'd all be in awe. But the hype machine spun up for Lin and now the inevitable internet anti-ESPN backlash has followed. It's silly, everyone has to find a fault in an obviously talented players game and make it out to be his total undoing.

 

Great post, and 100% true. Its like you either have to jump on the bandwagon or be a hater. There is middle ground there to appreciate what the kid is doing without getting all ESPNy about it.

[Felix]

Great post, and 100% true. Its like you either have to jump on the bandwagon or be a hater. There is middle ground there to appreciate what the kid is doing without getting all ESPNy about it.

It's very easy to recognize that his story is a great one, while still understanding the hype machine has gone too far. It's called 'being reasonable,' and apparently it's ruining everything about sports these days.

 

It's the best thread of ever.

I honestly think this year's thread is even worse than the one last year. And that's saying something.

Edited February 24, 2012 by Felix

[Steve9347]

Great post, and 100% true. Its like you either have to jump on the bandwagon or be a hater. There is middle ground there to appreciate what the kid is doing without getting all ESPNy about it.

Or, people can do what you have just done and ignore posts like mine where I say "he's being exposed against the Heat" and "he really needs to learn to take care of the ball" instead of lumping everyone in with J4L who takes every position to the absolute extreme.

Edited February 24, 2012 by Steve9347

[Steve9347]

I honestly think this year's thread is even worse than the one last year. And that's saying something.

Speaking of you, Ricky Rubio has been playing like absolute s*** lately (looking at box scores). Has he looked as bad in person as his stats suggest?

Edited February 24, 2012 by Steve9347

[Felix]

Speaking of you, Ricky Rubio has been playing like absolute s*** lately (looking at box scores). Has he looked as bad in person as his stats suggest?

I wouldn't say "absolute s***," (possibly because I've seen what "absolute s***" looks like in the past with Jonny Flynn and even on his bad days, Rubio looks better than that) but he's been pressing way too much. He's also become a little loose with the ball this month, which has lead to some pretty ugly turnover totals and is something that definitely needs to get fixed going forward. He'll always average more turnovers than the average guard because he sees more openings that the average guard, but if you're consistently turning the ball over four or five times a game, it's unacceptable. As far as the lower assist numbers (7.5 in February after 9.1 in January).. well.. that's bound to happen on a team filled with godawful jump shooters. I don't really put that on him.

 

Another major problem this season has been his shot selection. It looks to me like he's trying to draw fouls consistently on drives and will throw up an ugly, off balanced shot expecting to get a foul. He's never going to have a great shooting percentage, but he definitely needs to be more selective, especially on drives.

 

That being said, he's a rookie. He's playing a s***load of minutes and the Wolves have really leaned on him, so it's bound to impact his play after awhile. I'm not really worried about it. I don't think he's going to be a superstar, but he has a very good career ahead of him (definitely an All-Star career, since he was built to play in those games) and will always have a huge impact on his teams.

[Jenksismyhero]

I wouldn't say "absolute s***," (possibly because I've seen what "absolute s***" looks like in the past with Jonny Flynn and even on his bad days, Rubio looks better than that) but he's been pressing way too much. He's also become a little loose with the ball this month, which has lead to some pretty ugly turnover totals and is something that definitely needs to get fixed going forward. He'll always average more turnovers than the average guard because he sees more openings that the average guard, but if you're consistently turning the ball over four or five times a game, it's unacceptable. As far as the lower assist numbers (7.5 in February after 9.1 in January).. well.. that's bound to happen on a team filled with godawful jump shooters. I don't really put that on him.

 

Another major problem this season has been his shot selection. It looks to me like he's trying to draw fouls consistently on drives and will throw up an ugly, off balanced shot expecting to get a foul. He's never going to have a great shooting percentage, but he definitely needs to be more selective, especially on drives.

 

That being said, he's a rookie. He's playing a s***load of minutes and the Wolves have really leaned on him, so it's bound to impact his play after awhile. I'm not really worried about it. I don't think he's going to be a superstar, but he has a very good career ahead of him (definitely an All-Star career, since he was built to play in those games) and will always have a huge impact on his teams.

 

Sounds to me like the magical ride is over, he's been exposed as overrated, and we'll find him in an alley shooting up heroin soon.

 

J4L you agree?

[Steve9347]

I wouldn't say "absolute s***," (possibly because I've seen what "absolute s***" looks like in the past with Jonny Flynn and even on his bad days, Rubio looks better than that) but he's been pressing way too much. He's also become a little loose with the ball this month, which has lead to some pretty ugly turnover totals and is something that definitely needs to get fixed going forward. He'll always average more turnovers than the average guard because he sees more openings that the average guard, but if you're consistently turning the ball over four or five times a game, it's unacceptable. As far as the lower assist numbers (7.5 in February after 9.1 in January).. well.. that's bound to happen on a team filled with godawful jump shooters. I don't really put that on him.

 

Another major problem this season has been his shot selection. It looks to me like he's trying to draw fouls consistently on drives and will throw up an ugly, off balanced shot expecting to get a foul. He's never going to have a great shooting percentage, but he definitely needs to be more selective, especially on drives.

 

That being said, he's a rookie. He's playing a s***load of minutes and the Wolves have really leaned on him, so it's bound to impact his play after awhile. I'm not really worried about it. I don't think he's going to be a superstar, but he has a very good career ahead of him (definitely an All-Star career, since he was built to play in those games) and will always have a huge impact on his teams.

I wasn't condemning him to the land of the failed, simply wondering if he looked as bad as his stats suggest, mainly because I was offered him in my fantasy keeper league in an interesting deal. Thank you for your insider knowledge.

[Quin]

I think he's plenty quick, and that's been proven the last few weeks. His ball handling is absolutely something he can work on. Good players work on it all of their careers. Just like a jump shot, which players routinely become better at as they get older.

 

IMO his ceiling is a poor man's Nash. Someone who's not crazy quick, not crazy athletic, but someone who has a high bball IQ especially with the pick and roll. If you will recall, that type of PG thrives in a Dantoni system.

 

Homeless man's Nash*

[southsider2k5]

Homeless man's Nash*

 

Nash Bridges that is.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Sounds to me like the magical ride is over, he's been exposed as overrated, and we'll find him in an alley shooting up heroin soon.

 

J4L you agree?

 

Nope. There's no comparison between Rubio and Lin. Rubio has the prerequisite skills to be a full-time PG in the NBA. Lin reminds me of '06 Rex Grossman. Rex had 5 or 6 games in which he looked like Peyton Manning, and then reality hit hard once the league did their homework on him. This time next year, we will no longer be discussing Jeremy Lin.