2011-2012 NBA Season Thread

[StrangeSox]

For every Rose in the draft, there are how many guys who wash out because they aren't ready?

 

Someone like Rose or Lebron could make the opening day roster anyway.

[southsider2k5]

Someone like Rose or Lebron could make the opening day roster anyway.

 

And in the case of a Kwame Brown, they would have something useful to do with them instead of just letting them rot on a bench.

[Soxbadger]

Just cause a guy played 4 years in college doesnt mean he wont rot on the bench under the wrong coach.

 

There are a lot of factors that come into play, a big part is coaching and where these players are learning. Jordan played for Dean Smith, I dont know if many ultra talented players would play for a coach like him anymore. There was an old saying, the only person who could keep Jordan from scoring 20 points was Dean Smith.

 

Its one of the reasons Barkley said that more players should go to Wisconsin to learn under Bo Ryan, as he said, a deer can run and jump, but it cant play basketball.

[RockRaines]

I just wish it was jump right to the NBA or be required to stay in college 3 years, nothing in between.

[farmteam]

I just wish it was jump right to the NBA or be required to stay in college 3 years, nothing in between.

 

This. Just like MLB.

[Balta1701]

This. Just like MLB.

You also then need a place where you can put an 18 year old that isn't "immediately on the roster" and to have the union accept some version of "You don't get service time starting until you make the big leagues".

[RockRaines]

You also then need a place where you can put an 18 year old that isn't "immediately on the roster" and to have the union accept some version of "You don't get service time starting until you make the big leagues".

Maybe, but I think the danger of not making the roster should still be there so the kids actually DO want to go to college to develop. Otherwise they are all jumping to the "minors"

[southsider2k5]

Maybe, but I think the danger of not making the roster should still be there so the kids actually DO want to go to college to develop. Otherwise they are all jumping to the "minors"

 

Kids still go to college in baseball and hockey. Some don't, but most do.

[Quin]

Idea:

 

Each team gets minor league team.

Expand draft to three or four rounds.

Players can go to college for two years, get drafted, and make an opening day roster OR get drafted out of high school, but play in farm system for at least one year.

If they go to college they can be kept on the minor league team for 2 years before declaring FA, HS players can be kept there 3 years before FA.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

Adding an additional year requirement seems like an easy compromise to this debate...

[StrangeSox]

Adding an additional year requirement seems like an easy compromise to this debate...

Why should a young athlete have to wait another year earning a ton of money for a college but little for himself?

[SleepyWhiteSox]

Why should a young athlete have to wait another year earning a ton of money for a college but little for himself?

 

Because those would be the rules and requirements set by the employer (NBA).

[StrangeSox]

Because those would be the rules and requirements set by the employer (NBA).

 

The rules and requirements are collectively bargained with the NBAPA.

[Quin]

Why should a young athlete have to wait another year earning a ton of money for a college but little for himself?

 

I think this, then I remember that I had class with a SG, was his lab partner, and the teacher told me he shouldn't have passed (mainly because he didn't show up once a week, which was half the grade) and that I pay out the ass.

 

Give them the option of playing in the D-League for a year, or college for two. Seems fair to me.

[Steve9347]

I think this, then I remember that I had class with a SG, was his lab partner, and the teacher told me he shouldn't have passed (mainly because he didn't show up once a week, which was half the grade) and that I pay out the ass.

 

Give them the option of playing in the D-League for a year, or college for two. Seems fair to me.

In the D-League they'd still get PAID.

[Soxbadger]

The rules and requirements are collectively bargained with the NBAPA.

 

And hilariously there is a conflict of interest when it comes to the current players representing future players.

 

So I can bar entry into my profession for a few years and protect my job, sign me up!

 

Lawyers do this too, if there are to many lawyers, increase the rate applicants who fail the bar, that way we make sure we keep our jobs.

[StrangeSox]

And hilariously there is a conflict of interest when it comes to the current players representing future players.

 

So I can bar entry into my profession for a few years and protect my job, sign me up!

 

Lawyers do this too, if there are to many lawyers, increase the rate applicants who fail the bar, that way we make sure we keep our jobs.

 

Any group like that, ABA, AMA, Professional Engineer licensing, has guild-like protectionist aspects.

[Quin]

In the D-League they'd still get PAID.

 

Yeah, but they wouldn't get the national exposure/fame of being on a NCAA contender or NBA rookie team.

 

They want to get fortune right away? Then give up the fame for a bit.

[StrangeSox]

I think this, then I remember that I had class with a SG, was his lab partner, and the teacher told me he shouldn't have passed (mainly because he didn't show up once a week, which was half the grade) and that I pay out the ass.

 

Give them the option of playing in the D-League for a year, or college for two. Seems fair to me.

 

Right, so why bother with him taking up those classroom resources? For the superstar athletes most likely to make the jump straight to the NBA, college isn't about an education. Very few athletic departments are self-sustaining and cost the school (read: students) money. But it generates a ton of money for the AD's and coaches!

[Soxbadger]

That article is misleading and a year old.

 

The reason why athletic departments arent self-sustaining is because they have to pay for non-revenue sports. Mens football and basketball basically pays for every single sport the University has.

 

It doesnt cost the students a dime and a school being good at basketball/football increases the visibility of the school and generally causes the degrees to be more valuable.

 

Here is a new article:

 

http://businessofcollegesports.com/2012/03...tments-big-ten/

 

As you can see, not 1 Big 10 school loses money on its entire athletic department.

[RockRaines]

Right, so why bother with him taking up those classroom resources? For the superstar athletes most likely to make the jump straight to the NBA, college isn't about an education. Very few athletic departments are self-sustaining and cost the school (read: students) money. But it generates a ton of money for the AD's and coaches!

Thats why I like min 3 years if they attend college and want to jump to NBA. You CAN graduate or get close to it in 3 years and it helps both the NBA and the college game IMO.

 

But then again I am being selfish

 

 

[StrangeSox]

That article is misleading and a year old.

 

I wouldn't say it's misleading. It is based on last year's data.

 

The reason why athletic departments arent self-sustaining is because they have to pay for non-revenue sports. Mens football and basketball basically pays for every single sport the University has.

 

Yeah, aside from rare exceptions, that's true.

 

It doesnt cost the students a dime and a school being good at basketball/football increases the visibility of the school and generally causes the degrees to be more valuable.

 

A lot of schools have student fees that go to athletic departments.

 

Here is a new article:

 

http://businessofcollegesports.com/2012/03...tments-big-ten/

 

As you can see, not 1 Big 10 school loses money on its entire athletic department.

 

My link's numbers don't include student fees and government support, so maybe that's the difference. I can't imagine that we went from 14 self-sustaining programs in 2009 to 22 in 2010 to all of the Big 10 plus most of the ACC and Big 12 and more to come in 2011. There has to some difference in the data.

[Soxbadger]

Well no one is 100% sure how the data works. There are a ton of articles on it, but no article I ever have read has Wisconsin not on the "break even list".

 

Here is Forbes in 2011:

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/sportsmoney/20...ports-revenues/

 

Notice how every Big 10 team had at least 5mil in football profit alone, with PSU taking in 50mil.

 

Furthermore:

 

While SEC football may be generating a larger profit, the athletic departments as a whole in the Big Ten are averaging larger profits than SEC schools. The average athletic department in the Big Ten sees a $10,704,551 profit, while the average in the SEC is $8,157,298.

 

That is basically saying both SEC/Big are profitable by conference.

 

Here it is in a spreadsheet:

 

http://www.kristidosh.com/wp-content/uploa...ancial-Data.pdf

 

http://www.kristidosh.com/wp-content/uploa...ancial-Data.pdf

 

As you can see only 2 schools in the Big 10 broke even, the rest made money. Id have to see what figures the first person used, but they seemingly cant be right as Big + SEC is more than 22 schools, and I guarantee almost every Pac-10 team makes money after their new tv deal.

Edited May 8, 2012 by Soxbadger

[Balta1701]

Well no one is 100% sure how the data works. There are a ton of articles on it, but no article I ever have read has Wisconsin not on the "break even list".

 

Here is Forbes in 2011:

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/sportsmoney/20...ports-revenues/

 

Notice how every Big 10 team had at least 5mil in football profit alone, with PSU taking in 50mil.

 

Furthermore:

 

While SEC football may be generating a larger profit, the athletic departments as a whole in the Big Ten are averaging larger profits than SEC schools. The average athletic department in the Big Ten sees a $10,704,551 profit, while the average in the SEC is $8,157,298.

 

That is basically saying both SEC/Big are profitable by conference.

 

Here it is in a spreadsheet:

 

http://www.kristidosh.com/wp-content/uploa...ancial-Data.pdf

 

http://www.kristidosh.com/wp-content/uploa...ancial-Data.pdf

 

As you can see only 2 schools in the Big 10 broke even, the rest made money. Id have to see what figures the first person used, but they seemingly cant be right as Big + SEC is more than 22 schools, and I guarantee almost every Pac-10 team makes money after their new tv deal.

There's a big bookkeeping question there though. Somehow I doubt that the $30 million Ohio State spends on "Football expenses" includes "Paying for their stadium in the first place". That money was contributed by the school, but if you count that, and all of the other arenas, the bookeeping winds up fundamentally different.

[Soxbadger]

Sometimes I hate my optimistic refusing to accept defeat side, as the game gets closer part of me keeps believing that some how the Bulls are going to win tonight.