2nd_city_saint787 Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 Since I have nothing better to do and this is entertaining my simple mind... What about trading Noah to a team like Portland that only has 25 mill on the books for next year. Realistically they can trade picks for Noah straight up with no players involved right?? They have 2 top 12 picks this year, grab one of those and a future 1st (if that makes sense). You can then trade or amnesty Boozer. I think CJ can be traded to the Warriors for one of their picks. I love the idea of bringing in Hinrich as the MLE....why i dont know. Go Perry Jones, John Jenkins, and Tony Wroten in the draft 2012 aka the tanking. Hinrich/Wroten Rip/Jenkins Brewer/Butler Taj/ Jones Pau/Kurt Thomas 2013 Rose/Wroten Ellis/Jenkins ..... or Harden or Martin Butler/2013 DP Taj/Jones Pau/Mirotic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoomSlowik Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 Not really possible... Pau- $19.286 Rose- $17-19 mil Gibson- $3.182 qualifying offer, worse if the Bulls have to match an offer Butler- $1.174 mil Mirotic- call it a mil, probably slightly more if he can even come over at that point Golden State pick (Jones)- This year's #7 pick made $2.8 mil Portland's 11th pick (better options than Jenkins at that spot)- This year's #11 made $2.126 mil Bulls' 29th pick- call it a mil First rounder next year- At least a mil, could be a fair amount higher depending on tanking At least two second round picks- maybe half a mil $49-$53 mil depending on Rose's actual salary and where the 2013 pick lands. Also doesn't include any matching offers on Gibson, and you can't sign anyone for 12/13 that is on a 2-year deal. So you've got maybe $10 mil at best depending on the actual cap math and more likely several million less. It's a major stretch since you absolutely have to have as much room as possible to be able to sign that SG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2nd_city_saint787 Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ Jun 1, 2012 -> 02:42 PM) Not really possible... Pau- $19.286 Rose- $17-19 mil Gibson- $3.182 qualifying offer, worse if the Bulls have to match an offer Butler- $1.174 mil Mirotic- call it a mil, probably slightly more if he can even come over at that point Golden State pick (Jones)- This year's #7 pick made $2.8 mil Portland's 11th pick (better options than Jenkins at that spot)- This year's #11 made $2.126 mil Bulls' 29th pick- call it a mil First rounder next year- At least a mil, could be a fair amount higher depending on tanking At least two second round picks- maybe half a mil $49-$53 mil depending on Rose's actual salary and where the 2013 pick lands. Also doesn't include any matching offers on Gibson, and you can't sign anyone for 12/13 that is on a 2-year deal. So you've got maybe $10 mil at best depending on the actual cap math and more likely several million less. It's a major stretch since you absolutely have to have as much room as possible to be able to sign that SG. Just read that Mirotic signed a contract extension and might not even come over till 2015....Does his contract start when he comes over or whats the deal there? They wont lose him if he stays over there too long right? The Golden State pick I was talking about is #30 or #35...Dont think CJ gets you the #7. The 11th pick is where I had them taking Jones, though of the 4 mocks I've looked at only have him at 11 in one of em...In which case a SG like Jeremy Lamb or Austin Rivers can be the pick and go PG/Big with 29 and 30/35, lets say Wroten and Festus Ezeli Then you can turn your attention towards a Josh Smith at SF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoomSlowik Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (2nd_city_saint787 @ Jun 1, 2012 -> 03:14 PM) Just read that Mirotic signed a contract extension and might not even come over till 2015....Does his contract start when he comes over or whats the deal there? They wont lose him if he stays over there too long right? The Golden State pick I was talking about is #30 or #35...Dont think CJ gets you the #7. The 11th pick is where I had them taking Jones, though of the 4 mocks I've looked at only have him at 11 in one of em...In which case a SG like Jeremy Lamb or Austin Rivers can be the pick and go PG/Big with 29 and 30/35, lets say Wroten and Festus Ezeli Then you can turn your attention towards a Josh Smith at SF. You'd still have basically the same problem: the Bulls would have closer to $5 million in space than $10 million, which won't get you a solidly above average starter like those guys. You'd have to commit as much/more money to that trio than the Miami Heat. They had to completely gut their roster just to make room for those guys and you've seen what kind of crap makes up the rest of that roster. Edited June 1, 2012 by ZoomSlowik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2nd_city_saint787 Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 Ok well ya got me beat on the whole situation of adding a star next year. I'll throw another pipe dream at ya...Trade Jo to Portland for the 6 pick and take Harrison Barnes, trade CJ and the number 29 pick(and future picks) to GS for the #7 pick and take Lamb or Rivers. I like Rivers because of Thibs relationship with Doc. 2013= Rose-Rivers-Barnes-Taj-Pau If Rivers and Barnes live up to potential that team is SET for the future.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 What this exercise ought to show everyone is truly how f***ed the Bulls are. They needed to make their run this year and next year. Rose's extension ($19 million or so a year) kicks in next year. The Bench mob all hits FA after next year and the Bulls are in no position to keep them. Then they're left with an expensive shell of a roster with Deng, Noah, Rose, Boozer, and no ability to get far enough under the cap to sign a difference-maker even if they amnesty Boozer and let guys like Asik from the bench mob walk. They're then too good to wind up with a decent chance in the Lottery, but not nearly good enough to make a run at the top of the East. They need someone to help them out, Gasol to LA style, or to somehow get incredibly lucky if they wind up in the lottery next year, or to do a bad contract for bad contract swap and then hope the guy they get suddenly becomes revitalized playing alongside Rose and in Thibs's system (what Orlando keeps trying to do around Howard). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoomSlowik Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 1, 2012 -> 04:21 PM) What this exercise ought to show everyone is truly how f***ed the Bulls are. They needed to make their run this year and next year. Rose's extension ($19 million or so a year) kicks in next year. The Bench mob all hits FA after next year and the Bulls are in no position to keep them. Then they're left with an expensive shell of a roster with Deng, Noah, Rose, Boozer, and no ability to get far enough under the cap to sign a difference-maker even if they amnesty Boozer and let guys like Asik from the bench mob walk. They're then too good to wind up with a decent chance in the Lottery, but not nearly good enough to make a run at the top of the East. They need someone to help them out, Gasol to LA style, or to somehow get incredibly lucky if they wind up in the lottery next year, or to do a bad contract for bad contract swap and then hope the guy they get suddenly becomes revitalized playing alongside Rose and in Thibs's system (what Orlando keeps trying to do around Howard). That's a bit of a stretch. The only thing stopping them from keeping the current core together is how much luxury tax JR wants to swallow. Even then, you can let some parts go without totally killing the roster. The obvious thing is to amnesty Boozer. That's a lot of money you can get off the payroll. It'd hurt a bit, but some would argue Gibson deserves a bigger role anyways and he's going to get worse in the next few years. Rip, Korver, Brewer and Watson currently make over $18 million. That's a backup PG and three wing players. If you draft well, you can replace one or two of them and sign a cheap-ish replacement. Rose, Deng and Noah is about $46 mil, which is a bit less than the Knicks and Heat have tied into their guys. You've already got one highly useful guy you can keep around with his Bird Rights in Gibson and Asik isn't all bad as a third big man. That leaves them as basically having to find one serviceable guard and cheap backups. You really only NEED to be about 8 deep, especially in the playoffs. Now if they decide that they have to significantly change the roster, yeah, they're kinda screwed. Even then, they've got a chance in 2013/2014 depending on how things break. Deng's contract expires and Boozer can be amnesty'd. Most of the rest of the roster is on short term deals. They'd be left with Rose (19), Noah (12) and possibly Gibson and Asik. Let's say hypothetically they get those two bigs for $10. They've got their stud PG and a fairly solid frontcourt for $41 mil. Even if you factor in guys on rookie deals for another $5 or $6 mil, that leaves them room to add another decent player. Hit on one of those picks and you're not totally screwed. Obviously everything depends on Rose being elite though. If that's no longer true, nothing else matters. Edited June 1, 2012 by ZoomSlowik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 I think you gave away the game when you said "If they draft well". We're drafting 29th. The odds of nailing another Gibson are pretty darn low. And once the Bulls hit luxury tax territory, it's going to be incredibly difficult to hold on to even the guys the Bulls have. Remember...if the Bulls hit luxury tax territory, the MLE that could be used to sign other guys shrinks significantly. And really, yes, Amnestying Boozer helps with the Tax issue, but it doesn't make the Bulls a better team, it leaves them back to needing scoring from their frontcourt and having no reasonable way of adding that since they're stuck at MLE level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoomSlowik Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 1, 2012 -> 04:57 PM) I think you gave away the game when you said "If they draft well". We're drafting 29th. The odds of nailing another Gibson are pretty darn low. And once the Bulls hit luxury tax territory, it's going to be incredibly difficult to hold on to even the guys the Bulls have. Remember...if the Bulls hit luxury tax territory, the MLE that could be used to sign other guys shrinks significantly. And really, yes, Amnestying Boozer helps with the Tax issue, but it doesn't make the Bulls a better team, it leaves them back to needing scoring from their frontcourt and having no reasonable way of adding that since they're stuck at MLE level. Meh, it can be done. The Spurs haven't been in the lottery since they drafted Tim Duncan, they seem to do alright. I'm not exactly talking about a Rajon Rondo or a Manu Ginobili either, more of a Wilson Chandler caliber player. Plus you've already got Mirotic's rights. I have no idea how good he really is, but he seems to be talented. Boozer didn't exactly light up the scoreboard this year. He only averaged 15 PPG this year and sucked in the playoffs. And he's likely to start getting worse. As I said, it's probably not going to be too long before playing Gibson is a better option, if it isn't already. Also, take a look at the teams succeeding in the playoffs right now. OKC doesn't have a scoring threat at either big spot, Miami is still winning without Bosh, and San Antonio and Boston both have one old guy that aren't exactly scoring 22 per game anymore. The important thing is they'd still have two productive bigs that can defend and finish inside when they do get their chances. As long as Rose is his old self, they keep most of the frontcourt that is crucial to their defense (ie Noah and Gibson) and have at least one threat on the wing, they can still be highly competitive. It's not like they've got Kobe at the 2-guard and Karl Malone at the 4 right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2nd_city_saint787 Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 What are the chances Portland would do the trade I mentioned? It'll help for the future and I like the SGs that'll be there around 11. Something tells me Thibs might like Docs kid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoomSlowik Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 QUOTE (2nd_city_saint787 @ Jun 1, 2012 -> 06:15 PM) What are the chances Portland would do the trade I mentioned? It'll help for the future and I like the SGs that'll be there around 11. Something tells me Thibs might like Docs kid. Noah is worth more than a late-lottery shooting guard and would be a lot harder to replace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2nd_city_saint787 Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ Jun 1, 2012 -> 06:39 PM) Noah is worth more than a late-lottery shooting guard and would be a lot harder to replace. Im still talking about getting Pau in this situation... IMO Taj can make up for the energy lost in Jo and Pau will make up for the offense lost in Boozer. Makes since to me but its so out of right field that itll never happen.... What about multiple plcks and a sign and trade with Thabeet, with Asik going in the Pau trade? Edited June 2, 2012 by 2nd_city_saint787 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoomSlowik Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 QUOTE (2nd_city_saint787 @ Jun 1, 2012 -> 06:57 PM) Im still talking about getting Pau in this situation... IMO Taj can make up for the energy lost in Jo and Pau will make up for the offense lost in Boozer. Makes since to me but its so out of right field that itll never happen. Noah is a major part of your defense, Pau isn't going to make up for that playing center. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 Mario Chalmers acting tough with Lebron and Wade carrying him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2nd_city_saint787 Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 Is Noah/Boozer that much better than a Pau/Gibson combo? I know they play different positions but IMO Gibson>Noah and Pau>Boozer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoomSlowik Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 QUOTE (2nd_city_saint787 @ Jun 1, 2012 -> 08:00 PM) Is Noah/Boozer that much better than a Pau/Gibson combo? I know they play different positions but IMO Gibson>Noah and Pau>Boozer. Noah is the only one of those 4 that should be guarding centers on a regular basis. Boozer is bad overall but they've hid him reasonably well thanks to their other bigs, Gibson is good against 4's but doesn't have center size, and Gasol is okay at the 4 because of his length and mobility but lacks strength down low. He's also at the point of his career where he's going to start to decline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoomSlowik Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 Celtics just executing way better this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 Yay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 Seattle is going to be angry that Pauly hit Saunders in the face with a line drive. Seattle should make Pauly take a lie detector test to make sure he didn't do that on purpose. Someone is getting beaned tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jun 2, 2012 -> 03:37 AM) Seattle is going to be angry that Pauly hit Saunders in the face with a line drive. Seattle should make Pauly take a lie detector test to make sure he didn't do that on purpose. Someone is getting beaned tomorrow. Ha, one of my favorite posts ever for so many reasons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 Rondo will just throw Paulie into the scores table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 QUOTE (fathom @ Jun 1, 2012 -> 09:52 PM) Ha, one of my favorite posts ever for so many reasons . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2nd_city_saint787 Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ Jun 1, 2012 -> 08:15 PM) Noah is the only one of those 4 that should be guarding centers on a regular basis. Boozer is bad overall but they've hid him reasonably well thanks to their other bigs, Gibson is good against 4's but doesn't have center size, and Gasol is okay at the 4 because of his length and mobility but lacks strength down low. He's also at the point of his career where he's going to start to decline. Eh, if the Bulls are gonna be in such bad shape financially in the future like you've said I think its something to consider. Past Bynum and Howard there aren't really any true center scorers that Taj can't guard anyway....I read that Portland would be open to trading the #6 pick for a PG but they also could use a C so I think they'd go for a Jo for picks trade. Adding a guy like Harrison Barnes, Dion Waiters, Austin Rivers, or Bradley Beal would really help going forward....By the time they get expensive Paus contract will be up. Edited June 2, 2012 by 2nd_city_saint787 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 Tim Duncan is a center Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2nd_city_saint787 Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 He's also gonna be 37 and possibly not in the league in 2013. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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