2011-2012 NBA Season Thread

[Balta1701]

That can't possibly be right, he'd be in the second year of a contract extension that averages 18.8 mil a year. Next year might conceivably be $15.5, but for 2013/2014 it'd be higher than that.

 

And it doesn't really improve their flexibility at all. They still don't have any room to make major additions and the team is done as soon as Gasol isn't elite anymore (some would argue he isn't right now).

I think most people would agree that Gasoline would be a great addition to play alongside Rose next year, but becomes more questionable with time.

 

Only 1 problem....

[ZoomSlowik]

I found the info on Durant's deal, which seems to be basically the same as Rose's. Here's the yearly breakdown (rounded a bit)...

 

year 1- $16.32 mil

year 2- $17.55 mil

year 3- $18.77 mil

year 4- $20 mil

year 5- $21.22 mil

 

So for 2013/14, Rose probably counts for $17.55 mil against the cap.

[2nd_city_saint787]

That can't possibly be right, he'd be in the second year of a contract extension that averages 18.8 mil a year. Next year might conceivably be $15.5, but for 2013/2014 it'd be higher than that.

 

And it doesn't really improve their flexibility at all. They still don't have any room to make major additions and the team is done as soon as Gasol isn't elite anymore (some would argue he isn't right now).

 

If Barnes pans out, I think a past his prime Pau, Rose, Barnes, and Taj core would still be pretty good. (If Rose comes back anywhere near his MVP level)

 

Heres where I found the Rose salary numbers. Never heard of the websites but both have the same numbers so I'll assume theyre right.

 

http://www.spotrac.com/nba/chicago-bulls/derrick-rose/

 

http://www.ultimatenba.com/playerfile/nba/...kRose-1618.html

Edited June 16, 2012 by 2nd_city_saint787

[ZoomSlowik]

If Barnes pans out, I think a past his prime Pau, Rose, Barnes, and Taj core would still be pretty good. (If Rose comes back anywhere near his MVP level)

 

Heres where I found the Rose salary numbers. Never heard of the websites but both have the same numbers so I'll assume theyre right.

 

http://www.spotrac.com/nba/chicago-bulls/derrick-rose/

 

http://www.ultimatenba.com/playerfile/nba/...kRose-1618.html

 

That's a good way to be a 4-seed.

 

Also, those numbers don't remotely add up. He signed a 5 year extension for $94 mil. If you add those 4, you get $69 million. He's not making $25 million in the last year of that deal.

Edited June 16, 2012 by ZoomSlowik

[2nd_city_saint787]

That's a good way to be a 4-seed.

 

Also, those numbers don't remotely add up. He signed a 5 year extension for $94 mil. If you add those 4, you get $69 million. He's not making $25 million in the last year of that deal.

 

 

If Barnes is a bust yes...I think Barnes will be a better scorer than Deng.

[ZoomSlowik]

If Barnes is a bust yes...I think Barnes will be a better scorer than Deng.

 

I already assumed he's as good as Deng when I said that, which is already a fairly big assumption for a draft pick. Think about it, you're essentially replacing 3 of your starters with 2, one of which is a draft pick. 5 years ago Rose/Gasol might have been enough to carry you, but Pau seems to make more of an impact on the stat book than the game now. It's not exactly a Durant/Westbrook/Harden/Ibaka caliber top-4 and you don't have the cap space to make significant additions.

Edited June 16, 2012 by ZoomSlowik

[MexSoxFan#1]

Reading these last couple of pages I've learned a couple of things...I have no idea what the hell the Bulls need to do to get to the next level and I really do f***ing miss Micheal Jordan/Scottie Pippen.

 

PS, I'm drunk, a bit nostalgic, so f***ing sue me...

[2nd_city_saint787]

I think everyone will agree Taj can replace Boozer so theyre replacing all 3.

 

With no room to add a piece they can keep Evans.

 

Rose-Evans-Barnes-Taj-Gasol looks like a championship caliber team to me.

[ZoomSlowik]

Reading these last couple of pages I've learned a couple of things...I have no idea what the hell the Bulls need to do to get to the next level and I really do f***ing miss Micheal Jordan/Scottie Pippen.

 

PS, I'm drunk, a bit nostalgic, so f***ing sue me...

 

I mean, they were like a 60-win type team the last two years with Rose healthy, so I'm not seeing a major reason for an overhaul now. Obviously Rose getting healthy is #1. The froncourt is a major strength, though you'll have to amnesty Boozer at some point once he starts sucking (well, worse than now).

 

Basically they need to find the right guy/guys on the wing. Deng works for now, you can try to replace him once his contract expires (should have a little space assuming Boozer has been amnesty'd). Hopefully Mirotic helps, he sounds like a combo forward. Finding an Afflalo-type SG in the draft would go a long way.

[ZoomSlowik]

I think everyone will agree Taj can replace Boozer so theyre replacing all 3.

 

With no room to add a piece they can keep Evans.

 

Rose-Evans-Barnes-Taj-Gasol looks like a championship caliber team to me.

 

 

Okay, on second thought, that's a little to short. So to summarize, you have...

 

-A 2-guard that has to have the ball that can't shoot.

 

-A SF that may or may not be good.

 

-A PF that's a nice defensive player and a good role player but has a limited offensive game.

 

-A "C" that has a high skill level but plays soft and has disappeared in the last several playoffs. Oh, and he's going to be 33 by the time Rose is healthy.

 

-A non-existant bench because you have no cap room and you had to clear out the roster.

 

 

How exactly does that add up to a team that can beat the Heat or Thunder?

Edited June 16, 2012 by ZoomSlowik

[2nd_city_saint787]

 

 

They lose Noahs D, thats about it. Taj starting over Boozer will make up for a lot of that.

 

When Evans was moved to SF (thats right he played SF for the last couple months, so I dont think he NEEDS to have the ball in his hand) the final 2 months of the season he shot 50% from the field. He's a clear upgrade over Rip at SG.

 

Barnes is going to be a future perennial all star IMO.

 

Even in a few years I think Pau can still deliver the kind of numbers Booze has been putting up now.

Edited June 16, 2012 by 2nd_city_saint787

[ZoomSlowik]

They lose Noahs D, thats about it. Taj starting over Boozer will make up for a lot of that.

 

When Evans was moved to SF the final 2 months of the season he shot 50% from the field. He's a clear upgrade over Rip at SG.

 

Barnes is going to be a future perennial all star IMO.

 

Even in a few years I think Pau can still deliver the kind of numbers Booze has been putting up now.

 

Their interior D gets a fair amount worse. Right now you have three good to great interior defenders with Noah, Gibson and Asik and one bad one that gets hidden fairly well with help D right now. With this roster you have one okay one that's getting older and another one that's very good but taking on a bigger role. The backups will be likely be a huge question mark instead of the very good Gibson/Asik combo.

 

You lose the strong bench that is one of the major strengths of the team.

 

You have a highly suspect shooting team with that lineup, though that's not exactly a strength of the Bulls right now.

 

Rose and Evans is a terrible fit in the backcourt because both of them rely on driving. They're not exactly Lebron and Wade on that front either.

 

And your #2 scorer is going to be 33 when you need him to be producing. Gasol is better than Boozer, but he doesn't produce much more than Boozer's 15-9 right now.

 

You seem to have a very high opinion of Barnes, the consensus is that he's basically Luol Deng 2.0. He doesn't put the ball on the floor very well and relies heavily on his jumper for points, and he's not exactly a Durant-level shooter. So if he pans out as well as most people expect, you're at a push with what they have now. Unless he's Kobe Bryant, that's not a championship caliber team.

 

 

[2nd_city_saint787]

Their interior D gets a fair amount worse. Right now you have three good to great interior defenders with Noah, Gibson and Asik and one bad one that gets hidden fairly well with help D right now. With this roster you have one okay one that's getting older and another one that's very good but taking on a bigger role. The backups will be likely be a huge question mark instead of the very good Gibson/Asik combo.

 

You lose the strong bench that is one of the major strengths of the team.

 

You have a highly suspect shooting team with that lineup, though that's not exactly a strength of the Bulls right now.

 

Rose and Evans is a terrible fit in the backcourt because both of them rely on driving. They're not exactly Lebron and Wade on that front either.

 

And your #2 scorer is going to be 33 when you need him to be producing. Gasol is better than Boozer, but he doesn't produce much more than Boozer's 15-9 right now.

 

You seem to have a very high opinion of Barnes, the consensus is that he's basically Luol Deng 2.0. He doesn't put the ball on the floor very well and relies heavily on his jumper for points, and he's not exactly a Durant-level shooter. So if he pans out as well as most people expect, you're at a push with what they have now. Unless he's Kobe Bryant, that's not a championship caliber team.

 

Just saw a little tidbit on Evans that I liked. The middle of March he started working with the "highly touted" Keith "Shot Doc" Veney, his FG% for March and April was .499 compared to .421 before he started working with a guy called "the shot Doc". So that type of shooting could be for real.

 

Has Pau ever played for a defensive minded coach?? I obviously know Phil was a great coach but he's not the D guru that Thibs is. I think Paus D improves under Thibs.

 

I've seen a few Tmac in his prime, Deng, Alex English, and Glen Rice comparisons for Barnes...In other words hes gonna be good.

 

As far as the bench goes, assuming Asik doesnt go in a Pau trade and Mirotic comes over when it matters, you got Asik, Mirotic, Butler, your MLE, and a rookie/vet minimum.

 

[Jake]

Not a big Harrison Barnes fan. He has the same weaknesses as Deng, but I'm uncertain if he can match up to Luol's strengths. Advantage is the cost, but a big disadvantage in the uncertainty and what I perceive to be a lack of upside.

 

I'm not a draft expert, but I still think if Meyers Leonard falls past 5 or so someone is getting a great value pick.

 

As far as the Bulls, lots of people are eager to tear apart a team that has dominated two regular seasons and has only played together for one playoffs, when they had a nice run but came up short against a good (but also hateable) Heat team

[ZoomSlowik]

I'll just leave it at this since it's been a back and forth for way too long in this thread...

 

The Bulls were on the short list of teams for the title before Rose got hurt. As long as he's his old self, that's not really going to change. They can keep as many parts of this team as they want with the only real issue being what JR's tolerance level is for the luxury tax.

 

They have a star level PG, a very good frontcourt, a solid albiet not stellar SF, and one of the more productive benches in the league. Most importantly, they play championship level defense.

 

If they break this up, it better be for an elite player that allows them to make a good 5-year run, not for an aging star that was the third best player this year on another contender that fell short. Their core is mostly pretty young and has a lot of basketball left in them. Any picks they get might help, but counting on them to start is highly risky if it costs you someone like Deng or Noah. Those guys aren't stars, but they're not super-easy to replace either. There's a distinct possibility that they'll get worse instead of better.

 

 

 

 

 

[ZoomSlowik]

Just saw a little tidbit on Evans that I liked. The middle of March he started working with the "highly touted" Keith "Shot Doc" Veney, his FG% for March and April was .499 compared to .421 before he started working with a guy called "the shot Doc". So that type of shooting could be for real.

 

Has Pau ever played for a defensive minded coach?? I obviously know Phil was a great coach but he's not the D guru that Thibs is. I think Paus D improves under Thibs.

 

I've seen a few Tmac in his prime, Deng, Alex English, and Glen Rice comparisons for Barnes...In other words hes gonna be good.

 

As far as the bench goes, assuming Asik doesnt go in a Pau trade and Mirotic comes over when it matters, you got Asik, Mirotic, Butler, your MLE, and a rookie/vet minimum.

 

LOL, and on that note, I'm definitely out. Thibs didn't invent defense, and I think Phil had some idea what he was doing the way those Bulls teams defended.

[2nd_city_saint787]

Oh and with all that said...I'm cool with keeping everything the same lol...I've got a lot of free time on my hand so playing GM has been a fun way to pass time.

[2nd_city_saint787]

LOL, and on that note, I'm definitely out. Thibs didn't invent defense, and I think Phil had some idea what he was doing the way those Bulls teams defended.

 

I said he wasn't the defensive guru Thibs is, Phil wasn't a defensive minded coach.

 

Oh and keep in mind I was 11 the last time the bulls won a title...All I remember was Phils Lakers teams not being very good defensively his last few years and they brought in Woodson, a defensive minded coach to fix that. So thats what I based that statement on.

 

All I remember about Phils run with the bulls is they were awesome, I was 11, I wasnt thinking about coaching styles and such.

Edited June 16, 2012 by 2nd_city_saint787

[Quin]

Evans is not good enough to warrant Noah.

[Balta1701]

I'll just leave it at this since it's been a back and forth for way too long in this thread...

 

The Bulls were on the short list of teams for the title before Rose got hurt. As long as he's his old self, that's not really going to change. They can keep as many parts of this team as they want with the only real issue being what JR's tolerance level is for the luxury tax.

 

They have a star level PG, a very good frontcourt, a solid albiet not stellar SF, and one of the more productive benches in the league. Most importantly, they play championship level defense.

 

If they break this up, it better be for an elite player that allows them to make a good 5-year run, not for an aging star that was the third best player this year on another contender that fell short. Their core is mostly pretty young and has a lot of basketball left in them. Any picks they get might help, but counting on them to start is highly risky if it costs you someone like Deng or Noah. Those guys aren't stars, but they're not super-easy to replace either. There's a distinct possibility that they'll get worse instead of better.

The obvious problem is that Rose is probably not going to be his old self next year, 2 seasons from now when Rose might be re-approaching his best form, Boozer might well be significantly worse, Deng I dunno...and the Bulls entire bench will be emptying. Hamilton, CJ, Korver, Brewer, and Taj all will hit FA (and that's after Asik hitting FA this year). The Bulls won't be able to rebuild that using the MLE, even if JR pays the luxury tax, unless Butler steps up huge, because he's about the only real "Kid" left on the roster who might get significantly better.

 

If you tried to keep this team together until Rose recovered, you're $10 million+ into luxury tax territory from resigning people and you've got a lot of parts that have gotten older and less effective.

[2nd_city_saint787]

Evans is not good enough to warrant Noah.

 

Evans and the number 5 in a good draft is.

[Quin]

Let me put it this way: Asik has stone hands and Drummond and Leonard will both bust.

[2nd_city_saint787]

Trade Deng for a big, draft Barnes, problem solved....Or just keep the team the same.

[Quin]

Also, the Kings offer is #5 and Garcia for Deng. I take that and run.

[Balta1701]

Also, the Kings offer is #5 and Garcia for Deng. I take that and run.

Is Garcia anything other than a backup? He's paid like $6 million a year, that's basically dealing for the #5 pick to first order right?