GoodAsGould Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 All around game considered the only clear cut SF's better than Deng are: Lebron James Kevin Durant Danny Granger I think you have to group Deng with the Caron Butler/Rudy Gay/Gerald Wallace bunch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jan 13, 2012 -> 03:42 PM) SF's better than Deng: LeBron Durant Melo Pierce Gay AI2 Wallace Granger Marion AK SFs arguably better: Wright Gallinari Butler Hedo Hill Deng is somewhere in that third-tier. Shawn Marion? No. AK-47? He's not even in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 QUOTE (MexSoxFan#1 @ Jan 13, 2012 -> 04:06 PM) His mid-range jumper has been solid for a while and he's good in the open court. His mid-range jumper has always been great and his 3 point shot has improved greatly the last three years. With Rose on the court, he's lethal, without Rose, he's just a dude on offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (GoodAsGould @ Jan 13, 2012 -> 04:08 PM) All around game considered the only clear cut SF's better than Deng are: Lebron James Kevin Durant Danny Granger I think you have to group Deng with the Caron Butler/Rudy Gay/Gerald Wallace bunch. Ooof. I'd personally say Gerald Wallace and Rudy Gay should be rated well above Deng. Caron Butler is having a nice start to the season, but I'm not willing to forgive the past few years based on a couple 20 point outbursts. He's below Deng. You also forgot Carmelo Anthony in the "clearly better" category. Edited January 13, 2012 by Steve9347 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jan 13, 2012 -> 04:09 PM) Shawn Marion? No. AK-47? He's not even in the league. Marion is not what he once was. But he's more versatile than Deng. He can guard 2's, 3's and occasionally 4's. Yes, I forgot AK is not playing right now. Luol Deng scores 17 PPG (much lower right now). But he also plays nearly 40 MPG. His PER has consistently been slightly above league average. Edited January 13, 2012 by Jordan4life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexSoxFan#1 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (GoodAsGould @ Jan 13, 2012 -> 04:08 PM) All around game considered the only clear cut SF's better than Deng are: Lebron James Kevin Durant Danny Granger I think you have to group Deng with the Caron Butler/Rudy Gay/Gerald Wallace bunch. Seems about right, that's why I consider Luol an easily top 10 SF considering both ends of the floor. Edited January 13, 2012 by MexSoxFan#1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (MexSoxFan#1 @ Jan 13, 2012 -> 04:06 PM) His mid-range jumper has been solid for a while and he's good in the open court. Basically what I was trying to say is that if Luol Deng wasn't as good at defense as he is, he wouldn't be anything special. His offensive game is ok, but he's not particularly efficient and his shooting isn't great (according to the numbers). However, when you put a slightly above average offensive game alongside VERY good defense on the wing, you have a very valuable/good player. I don't think there's much question whether or not Deng is a top 10 SF in the league. Edited January 13, 2012 by Felix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexSoxFan#1 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jan 13, 2012 -> 04:12 PM) Ooof. I'd personally say Gerald Wallace and Rudy Gay should be rated well above Deng. Caron Butler is having a nice start to the season, but I'm not willing to forgive the past few years based on a couple 20 point outbursts. He's below Deng. You also forgot Carmelo Anthony in the "clearly better" category. Melo clearly better O wise, but D wise, Melo doesn't even register...I wonder what Melo is giving up on defense, it probably breaks even, lol, he's so bad on defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Oh my goodness. Get out of here. Melo >>>>> Deng Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimsonWeltall Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jan 13, 2012 -> 10:05 PM) It's become quite clear that the right coach/system can make average defenders (something Luol clearly was before last year) look better than they are. Paul Pierce and Ray Allen had no reputation whatsoever as good defenders before '08. Deng defensive win share rank: '12: 1 '11: 4 '10: 36 (missed 12 games) '09: 159 (missed 33 games) '08: 117 (missed 19 games) '07: 5 '06: 24 '05: 52 (missed 21 games, rookie year) He was a good defender before Thibs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jan 13, 2012 -> 04:12 PM) Ooof. I'd personally say Gerald Wallace and Rudy Gay should be rated well above Deng. Caron Butler is having a nice start to the season, but I'm not willing to forgive the past few years based on a couple 20 point outbursts. He's below Deng. You also forgot Carmelo Anthony in the "clearly better" category. Gerald Wallace and Carmelo, without a doubt. I think Gay is much less of a clear cut yes, though. Offensively Gay is much more capable of creating his own shot, but their efficiency and shooting are actually fairly similar. Defensively Deng has the edge, but Gay isn't a pushover on defense either. Put him in Thib's system and he might be just as effective as Deng is. For what it's worth, I think I'd probably rank Deng in the 6-9 range for SF behind Lebron, Durant, Carmelo, Granger and Wallace for certain. Edited January 13, 2012 by Felix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexSoxFan#1 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jan 13, 2012 -> 04:20 PM) Oh my goodness. Get out of here. Melo >>>>> Deng I don't think you understood me, of course Melo is way better than Deng, Melo is a scoring machine.What I was wondering was if Melo score 25 pts in a game, what is the opposing SF pts that night...that's why I said it might break even, what Melo score to what the player he's defending scores since Melo is basically a turnstile on D. Edited January 13, 2012 by MexSoxFan#1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jan 13, 2012 -> 03:42 PM) SF's better than Deng: LeBron Durant Melo Pierce Gay AI2 Wallace Granger Marion AK SFs arguably better: Wright Gallinari Butler Hedo Hill Deng is somewhere in that third-tier. *Facepalm. I hope you're trolling. Deng was 4th in Win Shares among SFs last season. How the hell is Marion better? And I sincerely hope that AK is not Andrei Kirilenko. You might have been right a few years back, when Deng couldn't stay healthy and wasn't the player he is now. But to say that Deng is not a top 10 SF is just wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 QUOTE (MexSoxFan#1 @ Jan 13, 2012 -> 04:26 PM) I don't think you understood me, of course Melo is way better than Deng, Melo is a scoring machine.What I was wondering was if Melo score 25 pts in a game, what is the opposing SF pts that night...that's why I said it might break even, what Melo score to what the player he's defending scores since Melo is basically a turnstile on D. Carmelo's defensive ineptitude is overblown. The NBA has yet to catch up with MLB in regards to quantifying defense. Didn't Q post something the other day that suggested Carlos Boozer was an elite defender? Going by DRtg, LeBron is not much better defensively now than he was in 2005. And that's just ridiculous. I'm not saying Carmelo is a stopper. But he's not nearly as bad as he's made out to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) I said this a few days ago, Carmelo is so criminally underrated. That being said, even his biggest detractor would scream from a hilltop that he's >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Deng. Edited January 13, 2012 by Steve9347 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 QUOTE (chw42 @ Jan 13, 2012 -> 04:27 PM) *Facepalm. I hope you're trolling. Deng was 4th in Win Shares among SFs last season. How the hell is Marion better? And I sincerely hope that AK is not Andrei Kirilenko. You might have been right a few years back, when Deng couldn't stay healthy and wasn't the player he is now. But to say that Deng is not a top 10 SF is just wrong. GMAB. I'm not saying Deng is a scrub. But he's no all-star. He had no defensive reputation at all before TT came aboard. Guys like AI2, LeBron and Wallace are much better defenders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodAsGould Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Carmelo is clearly way more talented than Deng, I did the list very quickly and overlooked him. But, in all honesty I'd almost rather have Deng because you know your getting max effort on both sides and the Nuggets actually improved losing him. Yes they got multiple peaces in return but they also lost Billups who at the time was still playing at a high level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 QUOTE (GoodAsGould @ Jan 13, 2012 -> 04:35 PM) Carmelo is clearly way more talented than Deng, I did the list very quickly and overlooked him. But, in all honesty I'd almost rather have Deng because you know your getting max effort on both sides and the Nuggets actually improved losing him. Yes they got multiple peaces in return but they also lost Billups who at the time was still playing at a high level. You'd rather have Deng than Carmelo? Just say that to yourself 10 times without wanting to clone yourself and beat the s*** out of yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjshoe04 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 J4L trollin the NBA board....nothing new here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I really dont know when that happened, since I can remember him at Syracuse hes been considered an elite talent and outside of this thread I think most consider him a top 3 SF, and thats just because the other 2 are Durant and Lebron. Im pretty sure most would take Melo over any SF that isnt Lebron or Durant(unless your concerned about Melo's mentality.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 QUOTE (GoodAsGould @ Jan 13, 2012 -> 04:35 PM) Carmelo is clearly way more talented than Deng, I did the list very quickly and overlooked him. But, in all honesty I'd almost rather have Deng because you know your getting max effort on both sides and the Nuggets actually improved losing him. Yes they got multiple peaces in return but they also lost Billups who at the time was still playing at a high level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jan 13, 2012 -> 04:37 PM) I really dont know when that happened, since I can remember him at Syracuse hes been considered an elite talent and outside of this thread I think most consider him a top 3 SF, and thats just because the other 2 are Durant and Lebron. Im pretty sure most would take Melo over any SF that isnt Lebron or Durant(unless your concerned about Melo's mentality.) Luol Deng went to Duke, not Syracuse. Unless this conversation has suddenly started to mention Wes Johnson, in which case you all have lost your minds. Carry on. Edit: Oh wait, I'm a moron. You're talking about Carmelo. Ignore me! Edited January 13, 2012 by Felix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 QUOTE (kjshoe04 @ Jan 13, 2012 -> 04:37 PM) J4L trollin the NBA board....nothing new here. If you say so. Dude just said he'd rather have Deng than Carmelo. And I'm the troll? That's like me saying Joakim Noah > Dwight Howard. Take that garbage anywhere else and he'd get banned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 QUOTE (Felix @ Jan 13, 2012 -> 04:39 PM) Luol Deng went to Duke, not Syracuse. Unless this conversation has suddenly started to mention Wes Johnson, in which case you all have lost your minds. Carry on. He was talking about Carmelo Anthony. It was pretty obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Carmelo went to Syracuse, and that is who I am talking about. Deng isnt a top 3 SF, and I obviously know he went to Duke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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