The Future Of the Rotation

[LittleHurt05]

for definition of powerhouse see : phillies, philadelphia. tigers, detroit.

 

Huh? One pitcher does not make a "powerhouse" rotation.

[bmags]

We'll see this year.

[Eminor3rd]

Yeah, I'll believe that Detroit has a powerhouse rotation when Fister continues to pitch better than ever before for a whole season, and Scherzer/Porcello actually improve toward their ceilings.

[bmags]

Every year we assume every other teams players are a fluke and that our players will play to their averages.

[Balta1701]

Every year we assume every other teams players are a fluke and that our players will play to their averages.

I'm pretty sure calling the Tigers a powerhouse means assuming substantial improvement from multiple guys on their roster and no step backward from a guy who gave up a .240 babip.

[LittleHurt05]

Every year we assume every other teams players are a fluke and that our players will play to their averages.

 

Every year we assume that every other team's prospects will win the Cy Young because they aren't in the White Sox system.

 

In 3 full seasons, Porcello's ERA is 4.54. Despite Scherzer's stuff and strikeout ability, he has proven he is always susceptible to the 5+ run outing. Jacob Turner is 20 and really struggled in his only 3 ML starts. What about those pitchers screams "powerhouse"? I'll even give Fister credit for his 1.50 ERA drop when he switched to Detroit.

[Eminor3rd]

Every year we assume every other teams players are a fluke and that our players will play to their averages.

 

I generally assume players that outperform their peripherals will regress negatively and players that underperform their peripherals will regress positively.

 

EDIT: http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playe...&position=P

Edited December 30, 2011 by Eminor3rd

[bmags]

You're right...they are not in the level of nester molina and phil humber in terms of powerhouse.

[bmags]

I generally assume players that outperform their peripherals will regress negatively and players that underperform their peripherals will regress positively.

 

EDIT: http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playe...&position=P

 

what are stats?

[LittleHurt05]

You're right...they are not in the level of nester molina and phil humber in terms of powerhouse.

 

They sure as hell aren't on the level of Halladay/Hamels/Lee

[caulfield12]

Rangers, Texas.

 

 

Even without CJ Wilson. They might move Neftali Feliz to the rotation, they didn't have space for Ogando in the post-season rotation. Feldman gives them a lot of insurance, and they're still not quite done answering the LAAofAC.

[Balta1701]

Rangers, Texas.

 

 

Even without CJ Wilson. They might move Neftali Feliz to the rotation, they didn't have space for Ogando in the post-season rotation. Feldman gives them a lot of insurance, and they're still not quite done answering the LAAofAC.

Seriously, that team ought to be calling us and offering us a ton for this "Paul Konerko" character.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Powerhouse rotation: Rays

 

/thread

[witesoxfan]

You're right...they are not in the level of nester molina and phil humber in terms of powerhouse.

 

I think only one person has said that, and that was the creator of the thread. He's been pretty thoroughly shot down by everybody.

[shakes]

You're right...they are not in the level of nester molina and phil humber in terms of powerhouse.

 

This doesn't so much have to do with your post, but I wanted to chime in about the names you mentioned. I would have spoke up before about it, but I haven't had a chance to talk to the guy about Molina, until now, and this is the first time he brought up Humber. Anyway, I help coach a kids team between ages of 12-14 and one of the kids has a Sox connection, so we get a lot of time, and occasionally special attention, at the Sox-Bulls academy. I have spent more time with the pitchers, than the hitters, but one of the pitching instructors, who works with the kids, is a former minor league pitcher who works with the Sox pitchers as an instructor at the low levels. He said the Sox liked Molina even before Paddy came on board, and got the justification after, and think he is a top of the rotation guy in MLB within a year and a half. He told me he will dominate in the minors this year. The only reason he was available is because he doesn't light up the gun, but he is dominant everywhere else, and his stuff will translate at any level. If he had the innings he would be up this year, but his endurance needs to be built up. This guy was talking word of mouth and from watching video.

 

He also talked about Humber, and how they brought him in because they thought the changes they would make with him were similar to Gavin, and they were pretty confident they would take. He thinks Humber will continue to be successful. His changes, from what I could gather, were more about leading with his chest to retain his balance. It gives him a consistent slot on his curveball. It's interesting, because whenever he shows the righties video it is always Gavin. He maintains that he has the best balance in baseball and one of the most repeatable deliveries you will see. The only other nugget I got was about how they were gradually changing Sales delivery over the last couple of years. He thinks his arm will hold up, and that is the only questions about Sale. When I asked him how his time as a starter will be, he thought David Price, maybe better. I would think it could be homer Sox talk, but he is the same guy who told me Peavy will be a disaster. Stupid me argued vehemently, at the time.

 

 

[Eminor3rd]

You're right...they are not in the level of nester molina and phil humber in terms of powerhouse.

 

I never made that claim.

Edited December 30, 2011 by Eminor3rd

[caulfield12]

This doesn't so much have to do with your post, but I wanted to chime in about the names you mentioned. I would have spoke up before about it, but I haven't had a chance to talk to the guy about Molina, until now, and this is the first time he brought up Humber. Anyway, I help coach a kids team between ages of 12-14 and one of the kids has a Sox connection, so we get a lot of time, and occasionally special attention, at the Sox-Bulls academy. I have spent more time with the pitchers, than the hitters, but one of the pitching instructors, who works with the kids, is a former minor league pitcher who works with the Sox pitchers as an instructor at the low levels. He said the Sox liked Molina even before Paddy came on board, and got the justification after, and think he is a top of the rotation guy in MLB within a year and a half. He told me he will dominate in the minors this year. The only reason he was available is because he doesn't light up the gun, but he is dominant everywhere else, and his stuff will translate at any level. If he had the innings he would be up this year, but his endurance needs to be built up. This guy was talking word of mouth and from watching video.

 

He also talked about Humber, and how they brought him in because they thought the changes they would make with him were similar to Gavin, and they were pretty confident they would take. He thinks Humber will continue to be successful. His changes, from what I could gather, were more about leading with his chest to retain his balance. It gives him a consistent slot on his curveball. It's interesting, because whenever he shows the righties video it is always Gavin. He maintains that he has the best balance in baseball and one of the most repeatable deliveries you will see. The only other nugget I got was about how they were gradually changing Sales delivery over the last couple of years. He thinks his arm will hold up, and that is the only questions about Sale. When I asked him how his time as a starter will be, he thought David Price, maybe better. I would think it could be homer Sox talk, but he is the same guy who told me Peavy will be a disaster. Stupid me argued vehemently, at the time.

 

 

Good stuff.

 

Clearly, there's a difference of opinion on Molina's stuff. We've seen fastball velocities ranging anywhere from 89-96. There have also been some scouts projecting with time/maturity/filling out physically that his "consistent" velocity can pick up into the 92-96 MPH range as he gets older.

 

Not quite as much about the movement, which is equally important.

 

Seems, from his stats, that he's missing quite a few bats, one of the biggest issues for Danks when he's off.

 

 

[SOXOBAMA]

This is the 2nd time that JR signs a pitcher to a 5 YR deal.. It's nice to see Danks around for the next 5 seasons

[greg775]

Good stuff.

 

Clearly, there's a difference of opinion on Molina's stuff. We've seen fastball velocities ranging anywhere from 89-96. There have also been some scouts projecting with time/maturity/filling out physically that his "consistent" velocity can pick up into the 92-96 MPH range as he gets older.

 

Not quite as much about the movement, which is equally important.

 

Seems, from his stats, that he's missing quite a few bats, one of the biggest issues for Danks when he's off.

 

At the risk of overreacting from one video or being called a jerk ... did anybody else watch that one video of Molina and it appear that he has no fastball?

[ScottyDo]

At the risk of overreacting from one video or being called a jerk ... did anybody else watch that one video of Molina and it appear that he has no fastball?

The only video I saw of Molina was from an angle at which I can't judge a fastball. Has anyone seen the more traditional (from the TV-watching fan's perspective) outfield angle?

[SI1020]

A powerhouse? Comparing the rotation to the Braves of the 90's? Really? Some hardcore Kool Aid drinking in here. While I definitely like certain pieces of the rotation, there are so many question marks at this point. Gavin might be traded, Humber might still be the back-end starter many people thought he was, Sale still has to replicate his bullpen success as a member of the rotation, and concluding Molina an ace after a mere 22 innings of AA pitching is ludicrous.

 

Sure the rotation could be great if everything goes right, but the same could be said about the majority of major league pitching staffs.

This is what I thought immediately but we're at post #23 before someone says as much. Does no one notice that both Danks and Floyd peaked in 08 and have been for the most part backsliding since then? I like Sale a lot, but he has the dreaded inverted W pitching motion. Sorry, but he looks like an accident waiting to happen. Hopefully he will succeed, his stuff can be very impressive. I think Humber reached the outer limits of his ability last year. Nestor Molina? Very promising IMO, lots to be optimistic about, but time will tell. Everything will have to shake down just right for this staff to come close to resembling the 90's Braves.

[Quin]

Does anyone know if Jose Quintana is a starter or not? He intrigued me when we picked him up.

[caulfield12]

http://www.baseballamerica.com/statistics/...ers/cards/87051

 

Has mostly been a starter throughout his minor league career, 12 starts in High A last year...18 relief appearances.

 

Throw him into the LHR mix with Santos Rodriguez, Hector Santiago, Hernandez, etc.

 

Probably at least 1 1/2 seasons away, although we've been known to jump lefties quickly, like Radinsky/Logan/Corwin Malone.